How far we have fallen and how far will we go? (1 Viewer)

italiahorse · Dec 22, 2013

Just watching Southampton and thinking of there situation compared to ours.
Administration a few years ago but now riding high.
Similar stadium to the Ricoh and rocking today with plenty of atmosphere.
Yet another ex player playing in Danny Fox.

Instead of sorting things out and moving onwards and upwards I suspect we are yet to drop further. Everything seems to be going tits up. Relegation beckons unless form is rekindled.

We keep making remarks about the Ricoh atmosphere but look what happens when you are doing well.

I bet they are happy CCFC turned SISU's eye.

RIP CCFC ?

nicksig · Dec 22, 2013

I think we'll go down a division before going up. We could easily go the way of Luton

ccfc92 · Dec 22, 2013

all will be resolved if we go back to the ricoh. even renting it again will be better in the short term

italiahorse · Dec 22, 2013

ccfc92 said:
all will be resolved if we go back to the ricoh. even renting it again will be better in the short term

This is the only hope for us.

chiefdave · Dec 22, 2013

italiahorse said:
I bet they are happy CCFC turned SISU's eye.

Whenever I get talking to Saints fans down here they always mention how glad they are they turned SISU away and got rid of Tango Ken who they viewed as worse than useless.

stupot07 · Dec 22, 2013

It's difficult to compare our situation to Southampton's

They own their ground and have more assets than us, so something tangible for investors to buy.

They have what seems a bigger and more loyal active fan base than us - they averaged circa double our last seasons Ricoh attendance for the 2 seasons they were in league one.

They got promoted from the championship in the same season we were relegated - their wage bill was £29m approx x3 of our entire turnover that season.

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torchomatic · Dec 22, 2013

Yep, not always as black and white as it seems, is it?

stupot07 said:
It's difficult to compare our situation to Southampton's

They own their ground and have more assets than us, so something tangible for investors to buy.

They have what seems a bigger and more loyal active fan base than us - they averaged circa double our last seasons Ricoh attendance for the 2 seasons they were in league one.

They got promoted from the championship in the same season we were relegated - their wage bill was £29m approx x3 of our entire turnover that season.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

ohitsaidwalker king power · Dec 22, 2013

torchomatic said:
Yep, not always as black and white as it seems, is it?

Agree Torch...... but in 6 years SISU really have made a mess of it. Total lack of clear direction.... Black and White? More like 6 years of grey.

Otis · Dec 22, 2013

stupot07 said:
It's difficult to compare our situation to Southampton's

They own their ground and have more assets than us, so something tangible for investors to buy.

They have what seems a bigger and more loyal active fan base than us - they averaged circa double our last seasons Ricoh attendance for the 2 seasons they were in league one.

They got promoted from the championship in the same season we were relegated - their wage bill was £29m approx x3 of our entire turnover that season.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

They only have a loyal active fan base because we have had nothing but misery for the past 15 years +.

We have success and we will easily match Southampton's fanbase for League One.

People seem to keep forgetting we have had no success whatsoever since 1987. No play-offs, no promotions, no cup finals, no European competitions, nothing. Just year upon year, upon year, upon year of abject misery.

To be quite honest I don't see how we can be compared to any other club. We are quite unique. Look up and down the leagues and nearly every single club has had promotions or play-offs in our many years of complete and utter mediocrity and demise.

ccfc92 · Dec 22, 2013

Otis said:
They only have a loyal active fan base because we have had nothing but misery for the past 15 years +.

We have success and we will easily match Southampton's fanbase for League One.

People seem to keep forgetting we have had no success whatsoever since 1987. No play-offs, no promotions, no cup finals, no European competitions, nothing. Just year upon year, upon year, upon year of abject misery.

To be quite honest I don't see how we can be compared to any other club. We are quite unique. Look up and down the leagues and nearly every single club has had promotions or play-offs in our many years of complete and utter mediocrity and demise.

very good point :claping hands:

I was trying to explain this to the Leeds supporting cabbie yday. we must be the most deprived fans in the country?

italiahorse · Dec 22, 2013

stupot07 said:
It's difficult to compare our situation to Southampton's

They own their ground and have more assets than us, so something tangible for investors to buy.

They have what seems a bigger and more loyal active fan base than us - they averaged circa double our last seasons Ricoh attendance for the 2 seasons they were in league one.

They got promoted from the championship in the same season we were relegated - their wage bill was £29m approx x3 of our entire turnover that season.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

You could look at differently if you look at it as a packege.

Any buyer would ideally buy the stadium off CCC/Higgs and the club off Sisu.
The sum of both individually would be less than the whole bought as a going concern?

There's only SISU stopping this happening (possibly also CCC) but then as a business you would want to get both at the lower price so you can then sell at the higher joint price (Top of the cycle?)

We have the fan base if we are performing, but everyday that performance gets more difficult.

We are on a downward spiral into the ground.

stupot07 · Dec 22, 2013

Otis said:
They only have a loyal active fan base because we have had nothing but misery for the past 15 years +.

We have success and we will easily match Southampton's fanbase for League One.

People seem to keep forgetting we have had no success whatsoever since 1987. No play-offs, no promotions, no cup finals, no European competitions, nothing. Just year upon year, upon year, upon year of abject misery.

To be quite honest I don't see how we can be compared to any other club. We are quite unique. Look up and down the leagues and nearly every single club has had promotions or play-offs in our many years of complete and utter mediocrity and demise.

Some very good points Otis, and to an extent I agree, but the city has evolved on the last 10 years, there has been a lot of immigration (not saying that's a bad thing) and these new communities don't have the same infinity to the city or the football club. This is going to have an impact on the medium to long term fanbase of the club.

I have no idea if Southampton have experienced similar diversity, but they also don't have the number of rival league clubs in short proximity that we have.

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stupot07 · Dec 22, 2013

italiahorse said:
You could look at differently if you look at it as a packege.

Any buyer would ideally buy the stadium off CCC/Higgs and the club off Sisu.
The sum of both individually would be less than the whole bought as a going concern?

There's only SISU stopping this happening (possibly also CCC) but then as a business you would want to get both at the lower price so you can then sell at the higher joint price (Top of the cycle?)

We have the fan base if we are performing, but everyday that performance gets more difficult.

We are on a downward spiral into the ground.

The only way they would get the lowest price is for them to be under the same umbrella and that company going into admin.

Plenty on here are saying sisu should pay £113m for the Ricoh, sisu have out at least £36m into the club so would only sell if they got a decent proportion of that back.

Southampton's owner paid £13m for the job lot out of admin.

The sums don't stack up.

You say it's only sisu stopping this from happening but then say and possibly CCC, but doesn't someone need to make an acceptable offer for the club (not £1) for them to enable them to do it?

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Otis · Dec 22, 2013

stupot07 said:
Some very good points Otis, and to an extent I agree, but the city has evolved on the last 10 years, there has been a lot of immigration (not saying that's a bad thing) and these new communities don't have the same infinity to the city or the football club. This is going to have an impact on the medium to long term fanbase of the club.

I have no idea if Southampton have experienced similar diversity, but they also don't have the number of rival league clubs in short proximity that we have.

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Fair point Stu, but if we had success, many of these immigrants may well start going. I remember when we were doing quite well in the Championship for a while (might have been Dowie or Boothroyd), quite a few Latvians and Polish and Ukranians started going. I know this for a fact because my wife is an interpretor and I was getting a lot of requests via my wife for tickets and I saw a fair few of my * wife's clients' at games.

*set myself up there for a ribbing

thaiskyblue · Dec 22, 2013

that is a good point otis, 25% of the population in cov were born outside the uk, so how can they have a feeling for a club that plays in Northampton more fans we're missing out on ,apart from the next generation.

Otis · Dec 22, 2013

thaiskyblue said:
that is a good point otis, 25% of the population in cov were born outside the uk, so how can they have a feeling for a club that plays in Northampton more fans we're missing out on ,apart from the next generation.

Distance from home and lack of success are a recipe for disaster. Could take 20 years or more to build back up the fanbase.

italiahorse · Dec 22, 2013

thaiskyblue said:
that is a good point otis, 25% of the population in cov were born outside the uk, so how can they have a feeling for a club that plays in Northampton more fans we're missing out on ,apart from the next generation.

Leicester seem to do alright.

thaiskyblue · Dec 22, 2013

italiahorse said:
Leicester seem to do alright.

festa play in their own city.

stupot07 · Dec 22, 2013

Otis said:
Fair point Stu, but if we had success, many of these immigrants may well start going. I remember when we were doing quite well in the Championship for a while (might have been Dowie or Boothroyd), quite a few Latvians and Polish and Ukranians started going. I know this for a fact because my wife is an interpretor and I was getting a lot of requests via my wife for tickets and I saw a fair few of my * wife's clients' at games.

*set myself up there for a ribbing

I agree we'll get improved crowds with success, I just don't think our fanbase is as great as it's made out to be.

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Otis · Dec 22, 2013

thaiskyblue said:
festa play in their own city.

Only cos no-one else would have them.

Just think how much the outlay would be to have all those chemical showers installed.

stupot07 · Dec 22, 2013

italiahorse said:
Leicester seem to do alright.

Leicester is bigger than cov, and Leicestershire has nearly double warwickshire's population, without having the likes of Villa and Birmingham competing for fans.

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skybluelee · Dec 22, 2013

Otis said:
They only have a loyal active fan base because we have had nothing but misery for the past 15 years +.

We have success and we will easily match Southampton's fanbase for League One.

People seem to keep forgetting we have had no success whatsoever since 1987. No play-offs, no promotions, no cup finals, no European competitions, nothing. Just year upon year, upon year, upon year of abject misery.

To be quite honest I don't see how we can be compared to any other club. We are quite unique. Look up and down the leagues and nearly every single club has had promotions or play-offs in our many years of complete and utter mediocrity and demise.

EVERY club in the football league has had a top 6 finish in the last 43 yrs. Apart from us.

thaiskyblue · Dec 22, 2013

one team county, i think it would help us if our boundry was put back to Warickshire instead of west midlands. Good for sisu's Lego Land too, lol.

Otis · Dec 22, 2013

skybluelee said:
EVERY club in the football league has had a top 6 finish in the last 43 yrs. Apart from us.

Well yep, I did believe that was the case but wasn't sure if that was still factual and still held true.

I think it used to be only us and Bournemouth or someone, but now looks like we are out there all on our lonesome.

Can only think of one thing worse that can happen to us now and that's us playing home games miles and miles away from Coventry. No-one is stupid enough to ever let that happen are they?

italiahorse · Dec 22, 2013

Otis said:
Can only think of one thing worse that can happen to us now and that's us playing home games miles and miles away from Coventry. No-one is stupid enough to ever let that happen are they?

No body would be stupid enough to support that if it happened !!!!
Even the players would leave in the first window !!

shmmeee · Dec 22, 2013

Southamptons a poor example considering their owner at the time and the fact that they were coming out of bad owners. They'd also not had the time we had previously.

It doesn't mean there isn't a model that can achieve the same in Coventry though. A bit of creativity and a lot of building bridges, combined with a top 6 team (in whatever league) and we'd see crowds start to trend back to where they were pre-Sisu.

I think this season alone, if we were in Cov and had the ten points we'd be looking at 15-20k average at home.

There's been no positive feeling and no owners determined to engage fans for over a decade. This season has finished off another few thousand of our hardcore support.

Whichever stadium we end up at and whoever the owners, there's a shit ton of work to be done on reparing the damage. But we could easily follow the football progression of Norwich, Southampton, et al, if not using the same methods off the pitch.

Como · Dec 22, 2013

I was thinking that it would take at least 10 years to turn around, assuming it can be turned around.

Then I thought that in 10 years who knows where things will be? It will be a different world for sure.

ohitsaidwalker king power · Dec 22, 2013

italiahorse said:
RIP CCFC ?

There are two routes forward IMHO italia...
SISU get the stadium freehold or the club are liquidated. Until the full JR review think we'll just have to make do as fans with scraps from the table.
JR verdict will lead to a conclusion based on above. If SISU lose I suspect they will take the ball home...wherever that it is these days?

Desperate times.

Tonylinc · Dec 22, 2013

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
There are two routes forward IMHO italia...
SISU get the stadium freehold or the club are liquidated. Until the full JR review think we'll just have to make do as fans with scraps from the table.
JR verdict will lead to a conclusion based on above. If SISU lose I suspect they will take the ball home...wherever that it is these days?

Desperate times.

Totally agree with that. If the JR goes in their favour then some negotiation on the Ricoh will take place; on the other hand if it goes against them then liquidation seems to be the most likely outcome.

Tonylinc · Dec 22, 2013

Has anyone got any idea of the JR hearing date?

ajsccfc · Dec 22, 2013

italiahorse said:
No body would be stupid enough to support that if it happened !!!!
Even the players would leave in the first window !!

And fans would pretend they were giving up in Augu- Christm-

What's the currrent line?

ohitsaidwalker king power · Dec 22, 2013

Tonylinc said:
Has anyone got any idea of the JR hearing date?

I thought I read March 2014 somewhere Tony... but can't be certain?... March?... Mad Hatters tea party anyone?

The Gentleman · Dec 22, 2013

stupot07 said:
Leicester is bigger than cov, and Leicestershire has nearly double warwickshire's population, without having the likes of Villa and Birmingham competing for fans.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Leicester's football team is in direct competition with a Rugby team that is far more successful and a pretty good cricket as well. We don't really have any other established sports teams that can dilute our fanbase so a successful football team playing in it's own city could achieve a good average attendance. Besides, out in the sticks in Leicestershire the families are far to busy with each other to be worrying about watching football.

Tonylinc · Dec 22, 2013

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
I thought I read March 2014 somewhere Tony... but can't be certain?... March?... Mad Hatters tea party anyone?

Thanks for that OSW

torchomatic · Dec 22, 2013

Yep, can't argue with that.

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
Agree Torch...... but in 6 years SISU really have made a mess of it. Total lack of clear direction.... Black and White? More like 6 years of grey.

How far we have fallen and how far will we go? (1 Viewer)

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