How to get the Sky Blues back in Coventry? (1 Viewer)

Sky Blues · Oct 16, 2013

Interesting poll in the CT today. Here's another one:

So the Sky Blues can play in Coventry, which option would be best?

Sisu build a new stadium in the Coventry area but play in Northampton until then
Sisu build a new stadium in the Coventry area but do a deal to play at the Ricoh until then
Sisu be given the Arena stadium complex and/or ACL for free
Sisu buy the Arena stadium complex and/or ACL
Sisu and ACL negotiate a new long-term rent deal on fresh terms
Sisu sell up and let someone else work out how the club comes back to Coventry
Other (feel free to expand below)
Don't know
None of the above, the Sky Blues should play their games outside the Coventry area

There maybe more options so feel free to hit other and expand below.

Sky Blue Harry H · Oct 16, 2013

Over 18,000 Poles at Wem ber lee last night and now another on here !!!!!!!!!!!!

Enough

BrisbaneBronco · Oct 16, 2013

Options 1 and 2 not realistic.
CCC would not give planning permission for a new stadium whilst the Ricoh still existed.

Nick · Oct 16, 2013

BrisbaneBronco said:
Options 1 and 2 not realistic.
CCC would not give planning permission for a new stadium whilst the Ricoh still existed.

I don't think the sell up and let somebody else deal with it is realistic either!

cw36 · Oct 16, 2013

I put do not know. I am no expert. All i know is i want us back home. Now we are getting it right on the pitch it would be good if we had the basics right off it.

Sky Blues · Oct 17, 2013

BrisbaneBronco said:
Options 1 and 2 not realistic.
CCC would not give planning permission for a new stadium whilst the Ricoh still existed.

Which is why the poll states "in the Coventry area" - not "in Coventry". Given Sisu say they have been looking for sites on the outskirts of Coventry, not in the CCC area, only strengthens the likelihood that, if there is a new stadium, it probably would not be inside CCC boundaries.

BrisbaneBronco · Oct 17, 2013

Sky Blues said:
Which is why the poll states "in the Coventry area" - not "in Coventry". Given Sisu say they have been looking for sites on the outskirts of Coventry, not in the CCC area, only strengthens the likelihood that, if there is a new stadium, it probably would not be inside CCC boundaries.

Point taken

My concern is that there are many who will not follow CCFC if they are not in the City of Coventry.
For me, outskirts of Coventry not a problem. The Ricoh is hardly Coventry central.

DaleM · Oct 17, 2013

None of the above, the Sky Blues should play their games outside the Coventry area

I just can't believe that a Cov fan would actually vote for this. We have been infiltrated lads .Timmys here .

Grendel · Oct 17, 2013

DaleM said:
None of the above, the Sky Blues should play their games outside the Coventry area

I just can't believe that a Cov fan would actually vote for this. We have been infiltrated lads .Timmys here .

He's voted twice?

DaleM · Oct 17, 2013

Grendel said:
He's voted twice?

So he has

fernandopartridge · Oct 17, 2013

Probably by coach

skybluefred · Oct 17, 2013

Nick said:
I don't think the sell up and let somebody else deal with it is realistic either!

Why ever not?

No future with SISU · Oct 17, 2013

BrisbaneBronco said:
Point taken

My concern is that there are many who will not follow CCFC if they are not in the City of Coventry.
For me, outskirts of Coventry not a problem. The Ricoh is hardly Coventry central.

When she said 6 miles from coventry it could be from the edge of the city, so 10 or 12 miles away.

tbh444 · Oct 17, 2013

I think you missed a fairly realistic option - current club dies, exits the league, some form of new club eventually formed in cov (or not).

Jack Griffin · Oct 17, 2013

No future with SISU said:
When she said 6 miles from coventry it could be from the edge of the city, so 10 or 12 miles away.

That gets you as far as the planned HS2 interchange in Chelmsley Wood.

shmmeee · Oct 18, 2013

BrisbaneBronco said:
Options 1 and 2 not realistic.
CCC would not give planning permission for a new stadium whilst the Ricoh still existed.

They don't have a choice is it's a valid application. It's Seppala who has said she doesn't want to be in CCC's jurisdiction, not the other way around.

lewys33 · Oct 18, 2013

I voted other.

A bus, or train will bring the lads back to Coventry. Every other answer is not viable.

Hugh Jarse · Oct 18, 2013

I voted other.

Take out the words SISU, Arvo, ACL, Fisher, Sapella and any other of the c-units that are fukcing our club up and let's start again.

Rant over

Cheshire Sky Blue · Oct 18, 2013

I voted other. (without having thought it all out, but now forced to consider. This may work

ACL create a Joint venture with someone like PH4 (Not Byng) Agree to purchase CCFC debt free from SISU at a reasonable price. (None of this JS / Timmy bull that we have invested £60 Mill so we want it back)

This would tie the club and a new investor to the stadium, The new investor brings the cash to buy out SISU and Short term investment for squad.

Work together for 5 years, whilst building trust and value and working through the next steps for a sustainable business.

I really must take more water with it!!:facepalm:

mark82 · Oct 18, 2013

Cheshire Sky Blue said:
I voted other. (without having thought it all out, but now forced to consider. This may work

ACL create a Joint venture with someone like PH4 (Not Byng) Agree to purchase CCFC debt free from SISU at a reasonable price. (None of this JS / Timmy bull that we have invested £60 Mill so we want it back)

This would tie the club and a new investor to the stadium, The new investor brings the cash to buy out SISU and Short term investment for squad.

Work together for 5 years, whilst building trust and value and working through the next steps for a sustainable business.

I really must take more water with it!!:facepalm:

There was another thread earlier with an article which gives an interesting insight into the way Sisu as a company operate. Give it a read and you will soon realise they will not sell for any less than what they value the debt to their investors as. Whether that is the quoted £60 million or a little less, who knows. People need to understand this though, Sisu are not the type of company that are going to cut their losses and run. They will be here until they are making a profit or have something of value to sell with the club (ie a stadium). The premise that a few poorly attended protests will force them out is bizarre and I think a white knight willing to pay over the odds to buy the club is unrealistic.

mark82 · Oct 18, 2013

I do have an opinion on something of a similar ilk that may work though Cheshire Sky Blue.

The sky blue trust set up a company to buy the stadium (freehold or otherwise) and land for the benefit of the club. Local businesses and fans could invest (and by invest i really mean donate) in the company to fund a purchase. The company would essentially be a trust and run on a not-for-profit basis with all profits after expenses being invested into the club. This would give the club all it's desired revenue streams, something that would essentially be an asset to the club, (importantly for our current owners) wouldn't involve the council and would also safeguard the ground to stop Sisu separating it from the club if and when they sell CCFC.

TheRoyalScam · Oct 18, 2013

"The premise that a few poorly attended protests will force them out is bizarre..." Agreed!

However I believe the premise that up to five years of poorly attended 'home' matches will force them out is not so bizarre.

I think they're losing money hand over fist, despite reducing the club's status to that of a League 1 outfit. It all makes no business sense at all.

At the moment our only realizable 'assets' are Ryton, the playing staff, and the FL and FA Golden Shares - certainly worth no more than £5m. SISU reckon they are 'owed a return' on their investment - anything between £25m and £70m according to various sources.

Just how and when will they be able to recoup this money when their turnover at most is a generous £800k/year? (23 matches x 2,000 attendance @ say a generous £12 average = £552k, plus TV and other revenues [merchandise, sponsorship at an all time low] @ a generous £250k).

I agree with your observations regarding hedge-funds, but fail to see how SISU can turn things round given the current circumstances.

mark82 · Oct 18, 2013

That's why they want the stadium. The problem is they are stubborn and will only do things on their terms.

This is the thread from earlier if you haven't seen it:
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/8379-SISU-quot-Queen-of-Debt-quot-2005-Article

Cheshire Sky Blue · Oct 18, 2013

TheRoyalScam said:
"The premise that a few poorly attended protests will force them out is bizarre..." Agreed!

However I believe the premise that up to five years of poorly attended 'home' matches will force them out is not so bizarre.

I think they're losing money hand over fist, despite reducing the club's status to that of a League 1 outfit. It all makes no business sense at all.

At the moment our only realizable 'assets' are Ryton, the playing staff, and the FL and FA Golden Shares - certainly worth no more than £5m. SISU reckon they are 'owed a return' on their investment - anything between £25m and £70m according to various sources.

Just how and when will they be able to recoup this money when their turnover at most is a generous £800k/year? (23 matches x 2,000 attendance @ say a generous £12 average = £552k, plus TV and other revenues [merchandise, sponsorship at an all time low] @ a generous £250k).

I agree with your observations regarding hedge-funds, but fail to see how SISU can turn things round given the current circumstances.

Good points from yourself an mark82. A few things though. The debt that SISU usually take on is one where there is inherent value, its just that the company can not realise it or that they can not fund it with existing revenue. That's not so now with the Sky Blues (not without the RICOH anyway) The debt that SISU claim is 90% debt owed to themselves for not doing a great deal. (My opinion) What they can not escape from is that all businesses have an effective value. If that value is lower than all the debts you are well and truly screwed. There will come a point whereby even 'the hardest set of balls' will accept that there is a time to fold. I can't see SISU liquidating CCFC or Otium as this destroys 100% value and is a total write off. Unless there is some tax dodge at play I don't think they would want that.

Jack Griffin · Oct 18, 2013

What they've got is worth nothing without the fans & they've lost most of us.

Any initiative that means the Ricoh can continue without them will screw them completely.

Sky Blues · Oct 19, 2013

Some interesting ideas under others there.

Mark82, I've floated an idea similar to yours on the forum before but it got shot down. I was told there is no way the fans could raise that kind of cash.

Sky Blues · Oct 20, 2013

So the results. First off, a health warning: This poll is self-selecting and has a low number of respondents (89). Secondly, while I believe it is only open to members of the forum to vote and to do so only once, there is the possibility of some multiple voting as we know from Nick that there is the odd multiple account out there.

The poll was only ever an attempt to guage a rough feeling of how the fans on here feel is the best way to get the team back in Coventry. The CT for whatever reason (and if I had to guess I would probably say "by accident") asked a leading question and there are numerous other issues with the poll that others have discussed elsewhere. I don't claim this poll was much better, but I did at least try to give a variety of options "so the Sky Blues can play in Coventry" and left it open for people to suggest others.

Clearly, the results suggest the majority of respondents (60 per cent) think the best way out of this mess is for Sisu to go. Only one person thinks a new stadium is the best solution. Less than 20 per cent believe Sisu owning the Arena stadium complex and/or ACL (either as a result of buying it or being given it) is the best way forward and only 12.4 per cent favour some kind of rent deal as the best option.

Some people have said certain options are unrealistic. It might be possible to make an argument that all the listed options are unrealistic. I don't know what CCC currently think, but if the council was to say "we won't sell (or give) the Ricoh freehold to Sisu", then how would that be a more realistic option than Sisu selling up and letting someone else work out how the club comes back to Coventry because Joy Seppala says they won't sell? It would be a stalemate.

I specifically asked about the best option because I suspect a lot of us would be happy for the Sky Blues to be back in Coventry via more than one option. Ultimately, I think we're all looking at this, scratching our heads and wondering how it is going to end. I think everyone on here wants the best for the club but there is division about what the best thing might be. Interestingly, it appears almost no one on here thinks the best option is to load more debt on the club and build a new ground when there is a decent one in the city without a football team playing there at present. We're fed up, we're not seeing an end in sight and so we're squabbling like ferrets in a sack.

Thanks to everyone who took a second to vote. I, for one, was interested in the results. However unscientific the poll might be, as a barometer of the general mood I'll still take it as a minor step up from just seeing who shouts loudest!

shmmeee · Oct 20, 2013

Sky Blues said:
So the results. First off, a health warning: This poll is self-selecting and has a low number of respondents (89). Secondly, while I believe it is only open to members of the forum to vote and to do so only once, there is the possibility of some multiple voting as we know from Nick that there is the odd multiple account out there.

The poll was only ever an attempt to guage a rough feeling of how the fans on here feel is the best way to get the team back in Coventry. The CT for whatever reason (and if I had to guess I would probably say "by accident") asked a leading question and there are numerous other issues with the poll that others have discussed elsewhere. I don't claim this poll was much better, but I did at least try to give a variety of options "so the Sky Blues can play in Coventry" and left it open for people to suggest others.

Clearly, the results suggest the majority of respondents (60 per cent) think the best way out of this mess is for Sisu to go. Only one person thinks a new stadium is the best solution. Less than 20 per cent believe Sisu owning the Arena stadium complex and/or ACL (either as a result of buying it or being given it) is the best way forward and only 12.4 per cent favour some kind of rent deal as the best option.

Some people have said certain options are unrealistic. It might be possible to make an argument that all the listed options are unrealistic. I don't know what CCC currently think, but if the council was to say "we won't sell (or give) the Ricoh freehold to Sisu", then how would that be a more realistic option than Sisu selling up and letting someone else work out how the club comes back to Coventry because Joy Seppala says they won't sell? It would be a stalemate.

I specifically asked about the best option because I suspect a lot of us would be happy for the Sky Blues to be back in Coventry via more than one option. Ultimately, I think we're all looking at this, scratching our heads and wondering how it is going to end. I think everyone on here wants the best for the club but there is division about what the best thing might be. Interestingly, it appears almost no one on here thinks the best option is to load more debt on the club and build a new ground when there is a decent one in the city without a football team playing there at present. We're fed up, we're not seeing an end in sight and so we're squabbling like ferrets in a sack.

Thanks to everyone who took a second to vote. I, for one, was interested in the results. However unscientific the poll might be, as a barometer of the general mood I'll still take it as a minor step up from just seeing who shouts loudest!

Watch out mds will be after you with his Big Book of Valid Research Methods

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Oct 20, 2013

Obviously the best option is for SISU to sell up and let someone else do it but that is in no way realistic just as option 3 of giving SISU the stadium for free is neither realistic

How to get the Sky Blues back in Coventry? (1 Viewer)

So the Sky Blues can play in Coventry, which option would be best?

Sisu build a new stadium in the Coventry area but play in Northampton until then

Sisu build a new stadium in the Coventry area but do a deal to play at the Ricoh until then

Sisu be given the Arena stadium complex and/or ACL for free

Sisu buy the Arena stadium complex and/or ACL

Sisu and ACL negotiate a new long-term rent deal on fresh terms

Sisu sell up and let someone else work out how the club comes back to Coventry

Other (feel free to expand below)

Don't know

None of the above, the Sky Blues should play their games outside the Coventry area

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