How will the stalemate break (1 Viewer)

dongonzalos · Oct 7, 2013

SISU

We have invested 60 million
We can cover the 2 million a year in lost revenue for up to five years.
We will build a new stadium somewhere near Coventry
We will only return to the Ricoh as owners.

Council ACL

Ricoh is profitable without the football club.
Come back for 150k a year and 80 f&b, sliding scale rent for 10 years.
We are doing no more it is over to you.

My gut feeling tells me if ACL stays quite and does nothing SISU will start coming up with realistic options.

I appreciate I do lean more towards ACL and the council in this stand off.

However ACL have done all the running so far and just keep getting knocked back. I agree with their silence and waiting on SISU. It seems to be working as Joy has started to make some murmurings about what she would like.

I still think the quickest resolution will come when ACL enter preliminary talks with a genuine new business opportunity.

Grendel · Oct 7, 2013

Acl aren't profitable though are they? They couldn't operate in the real world. Without the council "loan restructure" - bail out in other words - Anne Lucas admitted they would be in a right mess. Would be lovely to get your mortgage restructured just because you are inept wouldn't it.

At least you admit you are more interested in ACL than CCFC - I applaud the honesty at least.

covmark · Oct 7, 2013

This topic hasn't been discussed enough, I'm glad there's another thread on it

SIR ERNIE · Oct 7, 2013

Grendel said:
Acl aren't profitable though are they? They couldn't operate in the real world. Without the council "loan restructure" - bail out in other words - Anne Lucas admitted they would be in a right mess. Would be lovely to get your mortgage restructured just because you are inept wouldn't it.

At least you admit you are more interested in ACL than CCFC - I applaud the honesty at least.

haha you make me laugh Grendel.

...why do you just jump on the one questionable ACL statement and ridicule it?

lets take a look at the four SISU statements in the OP:

We have invested 60 million: Untrue; you've raised management charges and loans to create a false picture.
We can cover the 2 million a year in lost revenue for up to five years. Bollocks. Does anyone seriously believe that?
We will build a new stadium somewhere near CoventryWill never happen
We will only return to the Ricoh as owners. But only if we're allowed to buy at a fraction of the market value

Danceswithhorses · Oct 7, 2013

Grendel said:
At least you admit you are more interested in ACL than CCFC - I applaud the honesty at least.

Where did the OP say that ?

jesus-wept · Oct 7, 2013

SISU will close the club down, they won't go back to the Ricoh, despite what Sepalla said they can't afford to fund the gate receipt losses, especially for 3 to 5 years. They won't invest realistically in the team and as a result the team will struggle. They won't come out of embargo because they won't submit accounts to allow us to. The people running the football business be it Waggott, Fisher or Sepalla herself have no affiliation with the team or it's fans so turning their backs will mean nothing to them and our fate is in their hands, scarey.

dongonzalos · Oct 7, 2013

Danceswithhorses said:
Where did the OP say that ?

You don't have to in Grendel's world, he just makes it up as he goes along then demands evidence for anyone else's opinion

sky blue john · Oct 7, 2013

dongonzalos said:
You don't have to in Grendel's world, he just makes it up as he goes along then demands evidence for anyone else's opinion

Its better just to ignore his fishing and wumming he'll soon head back to gmk !!!!!

mark82 · Oct 7, 2013

dongonzalos said:
SISU

We have invested 60 million
We can cover the 2 million a year in lost revenue for up to five years.
We will build a new stadium somewhere near Coventry
We will only return to the Ricoh as owners.

Council ACL

Ricoh is profitable without the football club.
Come back for 150k a year and 80 f&b, sliding scale rent for 10 years.
We are doing no more it is over to you.

My gut feeling tells me if ACL stays quite and does nothing SISU will start coming up with realistic options.

I appreciate I do lean more towards ACL and the council in this stand off.

However ACL have done all the running so far and just keep getting knocked back. I agree with their silence and waiting on SISU. It seems to be working as Joy has started to make some murmurings about what she would like.

I still think the quickest resolution will come when ACL enter preliminary talks with a genuine new business opportunity.

I haven't seen ACL putting any effort into this since administration. They made one offer to the administrator who, for whatever reason, decided not to consider it. No offer, to my knowledge, has ever been made to Otium. In fact ACL have been very quiet since liquidation was confirmed which leads me to believe they are more guilty than I first assumed.

And why do people keep saying this new tin pot stadium will never happen? People said Northampton would never happen but, guess what, it did. People accuse SISU of posturing but from what I have seen they are willing to follow through their threats whatever the consequences.

mark82 · Oct 7, 2013

And I still don't get why people are getting hung up on the club not paying market value (or what they deem market value). Why would you not want the club to pay as little as possible for the stadium? If it was new owners wanting to get the stadium for as little as possible everyone would be praising them.

bezzer · Oct 7, 2013

mark82 said:
I haven't seen ACL putting any effort into this since administration. They made one offer to the administrator who, for whatever reason, decided not to consider it. No offer, to my knowledge, has ever been made to Otium. In fact ACL have been very quiet since liquidation was confirmed which leads me to believe they are more guilty than I first assumed.

And why do people keep saying this new tin pot stadium will never happen? People said Northampton would never happen but, guess what, it did. People accuse SISU of posturing but from what I have seen they are willing to follow through their threats whatever the consequences.

mark82 said:
And I still don't get why people are getting hung up on the club not paying market value (or what they deem market value). Why would you not want the club to pay as little as possible for the stadium? If it was new owners wanting to get the stadium for as little as possible everyone would be praising them.

The ACL/CCC 'lovers' will be here in a moment to shoot you down for daring to question their beloved institutions.

It's good to see more posters seeing and stating there's more than one villan in this sorry mess.

sky blue john · Oct 7, 2013

bezzer said:
The ACL/CCC 'lovers' will be here in a moment to
shoot you down for daring to question their beloved institutions.
It's good to see more posters seeing and stating there's more than one villan in this sorry mess.

I support ccfc who should be by the way be playing their football in cov !!!!
Like you said their is more than one villain in this mess but they don't own or control ccfc !!!!
After taking are beloved club out of cov what have Sisu done to get us back in cov ?
Acl & Ccc have done nothing they are waiting !!!!

dongonzalos · Oct 7, 2013

mark82 said:
And I still don't get why people are getting hung up on the club not paying market value (or what they deem market value). Why would you not want the club to pay as little as possible for the stadium? If it was new owners wanting to get the stadium for as little as possible everyone would be praising them.

So is that how you see it ending, a new stadium?

I personally don't believe that as the club would then need to be sold for more than 100 million for SISU to break even.

That does not seem to me to be a realistic financial possibility.

lewys33 · Oct 7, 2013

How is this going to end? 2 options ...........

1. Nuclear War

2. Harry Hill Style FIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGHT

sky blue john · Oct 7, 2013

dongonzalos said:
So is that how you see it ending, a new stadium?

I personally don't believe that as the club would then need to be sold for more than 100 million for SISU to break even.

That does not seem to me to be a realistic financial possibility.

Surely Sisu's investors see this !!!!
They can spend 20-30million on some tin pot stadium and hope that there will be more than the 1500 fans going to sixfields in 3-5 years time !!!!
Or they use the money to get a share in the Ricoh now and get 10,000 fans back instantly !!!!!!
Now its not rocket science which option would be best for everyone Sisu, fans,team and investors !!!!

The problem is i don't see Sisu making any effort to make either option happen !!!!!

lewys33 · Oct 7, 2013

mark82 said:
And I still don't get why people are getting hung up on the club not paying market value (or what they deem market value). Why would you not want the club to pay as little as possible for the stadium? If it was new owners wanting to get the stadium for as little as possible everyone would be praising them.

I can't speak for everyone on this, but my argument on this is yes I don't mind if CCFC get the stadium cheap. Not a problem with that at all. The main issue is making sure that CCFC own the stadium, not another company under the SISU umbrella. The other argument surrounding this is that people (yes I am going to say it) "pro-sisu" (how dare he! *gasp*) have suggested that CCC should be bothered about the effect on the economy for the local area from losing CCFC, and the effect on the taxpayer, so the reply to that was that surely the taxpayer should get the best return on selling the stadium.

olderskyblue · Oct 7, 2013

mark82 said:
I haven't seen ACL putting any effort into this since administration. They made one offer to the administrator who, for whatever reason, decided not to consider it. No offer, to my knowledge, has ever been made to Otium. In fact ACL have been very quiet since liquidation was confirmed which leads me to believe they are more guilty than I first assumed.

Why does being quiet make you think they are more guilty? I find that a strange thing to say. JS & TF have stated they have moved on from the Ricoh. If they want to come back, then isn't it up to them to re-instigate a discussion?

mark82 said:
And why do people keep saying this new tin pot stadium will never happen? People said Northampton would never happen but, guess what, it did. People accuse SISU of posturing but from what I have seen they are willing to follow through their threats whatever the consequences.

So, no need for them to contact ACL/CCC or vice verca.

Sky Blue Kid · Oct 7, 2013

mark82.....And I still don't get why people are getting hung up on the club not paying market value (or what they deem market value). Why would you not want the club to pay as little as possible for the stadium? If it was new owners wanting to get the stadium for as little as possible everyone would be praising them.............................................................................................One word mate.....TRUST(Or lack of)

Astute · Oct 7, 2013

mark82 said:
And I still don't get why people are getting hung up on the club not paying market value (or what they deem market value). Why would you not want the club to pay as little as possible for the stadium? If it was new owners wanting to get the stadium for as little as possible everyone would be praising them.

Maybe it is something to do with our club not buying it or owning it.

RoboCCFC90 · Oct 7, 2013

dongonzalos said:
So is that how you see it ending, a new stadium?

I personally don't believe that as the club would then need to be sold for more than 100 million for SISU to break even.

That does not seem to me to be a realistic financial possibility.

Who says that they plan to sell Dong?

RoboCCFC90 · Oct 7, 2013

olderskyblue said:
Why does being quiet make you think they are more guilty? I find that a strange thing to say. JS & TF have stated they have moved on from the Ricoh. If they want to come back, then isn't it up to them to re-instigate a discussion?

So, no need for them to contact ACL/CCC or vice verca.

Do you really believe that olderskyblue?

RoboCCFC90 · Oct 7, 2013

Astute said:
Maybe it is something to do with our club not buying it or owning it.

Back to the same old thing. There is no evidence to suggest that the Stadium would be bought and not owned by the club.

sky blue john · Oct 7, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
Back to the same old thing. There is no evidence to suggest that the Stadium would be bought and not owned by the club.

Exactly no evidence that they are prepared to buy a stadium !!!!

blueflint · Oct 7, 2013

Grendel said:
Acl aren't profitable though are they? They couldn't operate in the real world. Without the council "loan restructure" - bail out in other words - Anne Lucas admitted they would be in a right mess. Would be lovely to get your mortgage restructured just because you are inept wouldn't it.

At least you admit you are more interested in ACL than CCFC - I applaud the honesty at least.

change the fffin record ACL can make a profit without football that doesn't mean i want them to. i want my team back your beloved SISU can bring them back but won't so SISU can go to fu**

blueflint · Oct 7, 2013

mark82 said:
And I still don't get why people are getting hung up on the club not paying market value (or what they deem market value). Why would you not want the club to pay as little as possible for the stadium? If it was new owners wanting to get the stadium for as little as possible everyone would be praising them.

not if they negotiate the same way as SISU make a proper and legal offer discuss the offer with the owners then come to a mutual beneficial solution simples

Sky Blue Kid · Oct 7, 2013

Roboccfc90......Back to the same old thing. There is no evidence to suggest that the Stadium would be bought and not owned by the club........................................................................Would that be the evidence of what's been going on, of SISU charging rent to CCFC at the Ricoh before they were taken to Sixfields?...Open your eyes mate!

Grendel · Oct 7, 2013

blueflint said:
change the fffin record ACL can make a profit without football that doesn't mean i want them to. i want my team back your beloved SISU can bring them back but won't so SISU can go to fu**

Well lets hope ACL have deep pockets now Northampton confirm they have rejected an out of court settlement for compensation from them following ACL's withdrawl of court action.

shy_tall_knight · Oct 7, 2013

Its all about trust, SISU engineered the administration to break the lease with ACL and still maintain ownership of the club, allowing them to move the club out of the city and then people wonder why there is a lack of trust.

If SISU get the Ricoh cheap then they will be able to sign the club up to onerous lease conditions, sell the club and stadium separately but will have the legalities covered to prevent the next owners doing a SISU (administration to break the lease). An asset with guaranteed lease rentals is worth more, the higher these lease rentals are (my former company were taken over by a hedge fund who made their money on sale & lease back, then sold the company having creamed off the property profits).

I don't trust them ACL & CCC don't trust them, they are acting in the interest of their investors not cov fans not coventry citizens, they proved this with the totally avoidable move to Cobblers.

mds · Oct 7, 2013

Where does the thinking that the Arena runs at a loss come from, because the council bought the mortgage from the yorkshire? Ok ACL go bust, who then owns the stadium? It stops the yorkshire or another screw up like the SISU farce happening!

I dont have access to the accounts but...

According to the guardian 2011 http://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/sep/29/coventry-city-sisu-ricoh-arena

The Ricoh Arena is a hugely profitable enterprise for the council and Football Investors. In 2010, after paying loan interest, the stadium operator, Arena Coventry, made £1.5m even after investing millions in facilities. The previous year, when significantly less was spent on new assets, profits after debt and tax payments were £4m.

2008-2010 5.5m profit

The evening telegraph march 2013 Ricoh owners double profits. http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/ricoh-arena-owners-double-profits-3013220
2010-2012 again following on from the guardian, more profit being made.

Apart from the clubs rent, what has significantly changed?

kmj5000 · Oct 7, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
Who says that they plan to sell Dong?

How else is Joy ever going to realise the return on investment she desires?

Grendel · Oct 7, 2013

shy_tall_knight said:
Its all about trust, SISU engineered the administration to break the lease with ACL and still maintain ownership of the club, allowing them to move the club out of the city and then people wonder why there is a lack of trust.

If SISU get the Ricoh cheap then they will be able to sign the club up to onerous lease conditions, sell the club and stadium separately but will have the legalities covered to prevent the next owners doing a SISU (administration to break the lease). An asset with guaranteed lease rentals is worth more, the higher these lease rentals are (my former company were taken over by a hedge fund who made their money on sale & lease back, then sold the company having creamed off the property profits).

I don't trust them ACL & CCC don't trust them, they are acting in the interest of their investors not cov fans not coventry citizens, they proved this with the totally avoidable move to Cobblers.

Totally unfounded and total bollocks.

RoboCCFC90 · Oct 7, 2013

sky blue john said:
Exactly no evidence that they are prepared to buy a stadium !!!!

I think we all know SISU would rather purchase the Ricoh then build a stadium of their own.

RoboCCFC90 · Oct 7, 2013

Sky Blue Kid said:
Roboccfc90......Back to the same old thing. There is no evidence to suggest that the Stadium would be bought and not owned by the club........................................................................Would that be the evidence of what's been going on, of SISU charging rent to CCFC at the Ricoh before they were taken to Sixfields?...Open your eyes mate!

Can you point me to that information mate please as that's news to me..

RoboCCFC90 · Oct 7, 2013

kmj5000 said:
How else is Joy ever going to realise the return on investment she desires?

Well if she kept us and bought the Ricoh they would start getting a returning on their investment, maybe not at the quickness they'd hope for, but if they sold the club after 10 years of ownership of the club with a stadium they might get some £50Mil, you might think that would be enough.

This is a guess though.

torchomatic · Oct 7, 2013

Where's the evidence of this sub-letting?

Sky Blue Kid said:
Roboccfc90......Back to the same old thing. There is no evidence to suggest that the Stadium would be bought and not owned by the club........................................................................Would that be the evidence of what's been going on, of SISU charging rent to CCFC at the Ricoh before they were taken to Sixfields?...Open your eyes mate!

How will the stalemate break (1 Viewer)

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