How's this justice? (1 Viewer)

Nick · Nov 24, 2022

Blackmailed somebody with a rape claim, suspended sentence only.

Mother who blackmailed man out of £200 is spared jail

Chelsea Orton, 22, admitted to blackmailing the man, who cannot be named, out of £200 between July and August 2019 by threatening to accuse him of rape at Warwick Crown Court.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Judge Louisa Ciecióra said it was in Orton's favour that her crime was 'not sophisticated' and that she had no previous convictions.

How the fuck is her being a thick mess in her favour? Get her locked up.

All this will do is cause issues with people who are genuinely raped reporting it and other people who haven't not seeing the punishment for false claims.

fernandopartridge · Nov 24, 2022

Fucking hell she'd have got more money out of threatening to tell everybody that they'd shagged of her own free will

Otis · Nov 24, 2022

Nick said:
Blackmailed somebody with a rape claim, suspended sentence only.

Mother who blackmailed man out of £200 is spared jail

Chelsea Orton, 22, admitted to blackmailing the man, who cannot be named, out of £200 between July and August 2019 by threatening to accuse him of rape at Warwick Crown Court.

www.dailymail.co.uk

How the fuck is her being a thick mess in her favour? Get her locked up.

All this will do is cause issues with people who are genuinely raped reporting it and other people who haven't not seeing the punishment for false claims.

And only £200 compensation to the victim too? What's that, "just give him his money back?"

jordan210 · Nov 24, 2022

Isn't that lewis capaldi

Nick · Nov 24, 2022

Otis said:
And only £200 compensation to the victim too? What's that, "just give him his money back?"

Don't do it again. It seems.

Liquid Gold · Nov 24, 2022

If it can be proven it's a completely made up claim as in this case they should serve the same time a rapist would.

Just maliciously trying to ruin someone's life.

Otis · Nov 24, 2022

Liquid Gold said:
If it can be proven it's a completely made up claim as in this case they should serve the same time a rapist would.

Just maliciously trying to ruin someone's life.

Has to serve time at the very least.

shmmeee · Nov 24, 2022

Otis said:
Has to serve time at the very least.

Its a perverting the course of justice charge, but for that you have to show police time was spent on the case so wouldn’t apply to just a threat.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 24, 2022

Nick said:
Blackmailed somebody with a rape claim, suspended sentence only.

Mother who blackmailed man out of £200 is spared jail

Chelsea Orton, 22, admitted to blackmailing the man, who cannot be named, out of £200 between July and August 2019 by threatening to accuse him of rape at Warwick Crown Court.

www.dailymail.co.uk

How the fuck is her being a thick mess in her favour? Get her locked up.

All this will do is cause issues with people who are genuinely raped reporting it and other people who haven't not seeing the punishment for false claims.

Short sentences do not work

Nick · Nov 24, 2022

Sky Blue Pete said:
Short sentences do not work

There was no sentence.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 24, 2022

Nick said:
There was no sentence.

Sorry I know but it would only have been a short one and they just don’t work

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 24, 2022

We know that prison doesn’t work. So what are the alternatives? | Prisons | The Guardian

We would have funds for better preventive measures if we stopped seeing imprisonment as a default solution

amp.theguardian.com

clint van damme · Nov 24, 2022

Nick said:
All this will do is cause issues with people who are genuinely raped reporting it and other people who haven't not seeing the punishment for false claims.

Cause issues? The reporting and conviction rates for rape are shockingly low.
I don't think you can pin that on this trollop.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 24, 2022

Sky Blue Pete said:
Short sentences do not work

Yeah they do. I understood that one perfectly. Legible and concise.

Macca1987 · Nov 25, 2022

My worry is that she's a mum, full stop

SBT · Nov 25, 2022

Liquid Gold said:
If it can be proven it's a completely made up claim as in this case they should serve the same time a rapist would.

Just maliciously trying to ruin someone's life.

It's obviously a horrendous thing to do, but surely it's not as bad as actually raping someone.

Liquid Gold · Nov 25, 2022

SBT said:
It's obviously a horrendous thing to do, but surely it's not as bad as actually raping someone.

No but it’s trying to get that punishment for doing that onto someone out of malicious intent.

Trying to get someone sent down as a rapist for 10 years or whatever maliciously should result in actual consequence.

Maybe then rape claims will be looked into properly too.

shmmeee · Nov 25, 2022

Liquid Gold said:
No but it’s trying to get that punishment for doing that onto someone out of malicious intent.

Trying to get someone sent down as a rapist for 10 years or whatever maliciously should result in actual consequence.

Maybe then rape claims will be looked into properly too.

Needs a high bar though. Rape is famously hard to prove in court so it can’t just be a zero sum game where every accusation someone goes to prison.

Liquid Gold · Nov 25, 2022

shmmeee said:
Needs a high bar though. Rape is famously hard to prove in court so it can’t just be a zero sum game where every accusation someone goes to prison.

Of course not. There are obviously a lot of cases where one side sees is different to another. If it’s cut and dry though then they should face the same punishment they were trying to force the other into.

CCFCSteve · Nov 25, 2022

SBT said:
It's obviously a horrendous thing to do, but surely it's not as bad as actually raping someone.

You can’t really compare. However Im guessing being falsely accused of rape or being a pedophile is probably the worst thing you can ever be accused of, especially as in a lot of situations doubt might remain even if you get acquitted.

I remember hearing about this story and there’s others

My mum and brother both ended their lives after he was falsely accused of rape

Camellia Cheshire was driven to the brink of suicide herself as she organised funerals for mother Karin and her brother Jay, 17

www.mirror.co.uk

Also it leads to genuine rape cases being doubted, which will dissuade rape victims from going to the police and potentially guilty rapists getting away with it.

If it’s 100% intentional false accusation a jail sentence is the only answer

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 25, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
You can’t really compare. However Im guessing being falsely accused of rape or being a pedophile is probably the worst thing you can ever be accused of, especially as in a lot of situations doubt might remain even if you get acquitted.

I remember hearing about this story and there’s others

My mum and brother both ended their lives after he was falsely accused of rape

Camellia Cheshire was driven to the brink of suicide herself as she organised funerals for mother Karin and her brother Jay, 17

www.mirror.co.uk

Also it leads to genuine rape cases being doubted, which will dissuade rape victims from going to the police and potentially guilty rapists getting away with it.

If it’s 100% intentional false accusation a jail sentence is the only answer

I know that seems to be important but honestly it just doesn’t work as has been shown a lot

shmmeee · Nov 25, 2022

It’s a really tricky topic, and one I have a little personal experience of but can’t discuss in public.

I completely get that the system has been and likely still is shit at protecting victims. But there seem to be a lot of people who see it as an easy weapon or get convinced something has happened when it hasn’t by well intentioned people.

Both are absolutely devastating and both ruin lives, I really don’t know what the answer is short of permanent body cams for all women

Nick · Nov 25, 2022

Same sort of thing, I saw something earlier where a woman told an old bloke she was a copper and would do him for sexually abusing kids if he didn't hand over his bank card / PIN number.

Madness.

clint van damme · Nov 25, 2022

shmmeee said:
It’s a really tricky topic, and one I have a little personal experience of but can’t discuss in public.

I completely get that the system has been and likely still is shit at protecting victims. But there seem to be a lot of people who see it as an easy weapon or get convinced something has happened when it hasn’t by well intentioned people.

Both are absolutely devastating and both ruin lives, I really don’t know what the answer is short of permanent body cams for all women

But false allegations are 2-6% of all reported crimes which means 94 - 98% are genuine.

Here’s the truth about false accusations of sexual violence

Why didn’t these women speak up sooner? This was asked time and time again during the recent public furore around sexual harassment, violence and abuse. Underlying the question is a persistent uncertainty about the credibility of victims – a concern with identifying what is true and what is false.

www.open.ac.uk

SBT · Nov 25, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
You can’t really compare. However Im guessing being falsely accused of rape or being a pedophile is probably the worst thing you can ever be accused of, especially as in a lot of situations doubt might remain even if you get acquitted.

I remember hearing about this story and there’s others

My mum and brother both ended their lives after he was falsely accused of rape

Camellia Cheshire was driven to the brink of suicide herself as she organised funerals for mother Karin and her brother Jay, 17

www.mirror.co.uk

Also it leads to genuine rape cases being doubted, which will dissuade rape victims from going to the police and potentially guilty rapists getting away with it.

If it’s 100% intentional false accusation a jail sentence is the only answer

Well obviously you can compare them - that’s why we have a criminal justice system. Generally speaking it’s hard to see how falsely accusing someone of a heinous crime is going to be as bad as actually committing the crime itself. Of course, if someone causes damages to someone with a false claim then they should compensate the victim - although that strikes me as more of a civil case than a criminal one…not sure why this one was heard in Crown Court.

Ultimately if people are really concerned about rape cases going unprosecuted (and they should be!) then I think there are much bigger problems than false accusations that need highlighting.

shmmeee · Nov 25, 2022

clint van damme said:
But false allegations are 2-6% of all reported crimes which means 94 - 98% are genuine.

Here’s the truth about false accusations of sexual violence

Why didn’t these women speak up sooner? This was asked time and time again during the recent public furore around sexual harassment, violence and abuse. Underlying the question is a persistent uncertainty about the credibility of victims – a concern with identifying what is true and what is false.

www.open.ac.uk

I have questions about the methodology used there but researchgate keeps crashing when I try to read the study so I can’t answer them.

And I don’t think it’s that cut and dried, your link states that many claims are neither false allegations or true but queries raised by others or a potential victim that come to nothing (eg “I can’t remember what happened please check if there’s any evidence of rape”)

I just don’t think it’s wise to hand anybody the level of power over someone else. Pulling out percentages as if the whatever % is an acceptable collateral damage seems a bit off to me. It’s a really tricky subject with no solid answer IMO.

shmmeee · Nov 25, 2022

SBT said:
Well obviously you can compare them - that’s why we have a criminal justice system. Generally speaking it’s hard to see how falsely accusing someone of a heinous crime is going to be as bad as actually committing the crime itself. Of course, if someone causes damages to someone with a false claim then they should compensate the victim - although that strikes me as more of a civil case than a criminal one…not sure why this one was heard in Crown Court.

Ultimately if people are really concerned about rape cases going unprosecuted (and they should be!) then I think there are much bigger problems than false accusations that need highlighting.

Driving someone to suicide is a civil case? Really?

SBT · Nov 25, 2022

shmmeee said:
Driving someone to suicide is a civil case? Really?

I was talking about the original case.

CCFCSteve · Nov 25, 2022

Sky Blue Pete said:
I know that seems to be important but honestly it just doesn’t work as has been shown a lot

Agreed from the tangible results/outcomes of prison and I personally see little value in some criminals being locked up. What we probably don’t know though is how stronger sentences for certain crimes (not all) might deter people from doing them

I suppose in my simple mind, is someone more or less likely to risk doing what that woman did knowing she got £200 fine compared to if she’d been sent down, for say, a year or two.

Appreciate I’m probably looking more at deterrent side for certain crimes though, not the ‘benefits’ or otherwise of prison

CCFCSteve · Nov 25, 2022

SBT said:
Ultimately if people are really concerned about rape cases going unprosecuted (and they should be!) then I think there are much bigger problems than false accusations that need highlighting.

Yeah, agree with this. Was just saying it’s another thing that adds to ‘doubts’

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 25, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
Agreed from the tangible results/outcomes of prison and I personally see little value in some criminals being locked up. What we probably don’t know though is how stronger sentences for certain crimes (not all) might deter people from doing them

I suppose in my simple mind, is someone more or less likely to risk doing what that woman did knowing she got £200 fine compared to if she’d been sent down, for say, a year or two.

Appreciate I’m probably looking more at deterrent side for certain crimes though, not the ‘benefits’ or otherwise of prison

All the evidence I’ve seen is that most crime is reactive and involves little thought. Criminals do not think if I do this I’m going to prison they just do it

fernandopartridge · Nov 25, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
Agreed from the tangible results/outcomes of prison and I personally see little value in some criminals being locked up. What we probably don’t know though is how stronger sentences for certain crimes (not all) might deter people from doing them

I suppose in my simple mind, is someone more or less likely to risk doing what that woman did knowing she got £200 fine compared to if she’d been sent down, for say, a year or two.

Appreciate I’m probably looking more at deterrent side for certain crimes though, not the ‘benefits’ or otherwise of prison

In this specific case I don't believe the person was capable of making that consideration

SBT · Nov 25, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
Yeah, agree with this. Was just saying it’s another thing that adds to ‘doubts’

I guess, but I don’t think it’s a typical story. Grim as this tale is, it’s the kind of story that usually just ends up as fodder for people who are trying to ‘both sides’ a system that is brutally unfair to women, and who are conspicuously quiet about the countless real victims who get routinely let down by the justice system.

TomRad85 · Nov 25, 2022

Sky Blue Pete said:
I know that seems to be important but honestly it just doesn’t work as has been shown a lot

Doesn't work in what sense? Who cares if it works, it's a punishment.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 25, 2022

TomRad85 said:
Doesn't work in what sense? Who cares if it works, it's a punishment.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Makes criminals, doesn’t rehabilitate and is expensive

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