I agreed with alot what fisher said last night (3 Viewers)

I now agree to 99% of your post...

torchomatic said:

But can it happen at the Ricoh? I don't think it can while ACL exist then the Club will never make enough revenue, whether SISU are in charge or not. Maybe CCC don't trust SISU. but if what Fisher said was true then did ACL/CCC renege on a deal also? I've said all along that both sides are culpable in this mess, and tend to get shouted down for saying it, but I still think that's true. If the Club are forced to move then I certainly don't think all those ridiculous letters written to Mutton begging them not to sell to SISU have helped the situation or the football club.

As for disrespect. Yeah, he did come across as smarmy, but to be fair, it was a charged atmosphere and I thought he did OK considering. Like many who seem to think Keith was some kind of hero with his "Look at me..." comment. That is disrespectful also. As soon as he stood up you could tell by his voice he was up for a fight. THe problem has always been that fans can say and do what they want, regardless of how disrespectful they're being - the abuse dished out to SL is a good example - but they cry like little girls if they get something back.

If we do get relegated and end up in more trouble then it won't just be SISU to blame. I want to now here from CCC and PWKH regarding the letters CCFC say they have in their possession.

Coventry City will not progress until we get out of the clutches of PWKH, ACL and CCC.

Click to expand...

torchomatic said:

But can it happen at the Ricoh? I don't think it can while ACL exist then the Club will never make enough revenue, whether SISU are in charge or not. Maybe CCC don't trust SISU. but if what Fisher said was true then did ACL/CCC renege on a deal also? I've said all along that both sides are culpable in this mess, and tend to get shouted down for saying it, but I still think that's true. If the Club are forced to move then I certainly don't think all those ridiculous letters written to Mutton begging them not to sell to SISU have helped the situation or the football club.

As for disrespect. Yeah, he did come across as smarmy, but to be fair, it was a charged atmosphere and I thought he did OK considering. Like many who seem to think Keith was some kind of hero with his "Look at me..." comment. That is disrespectful also. As soon as he stood up you could tell by his voice he was up for a fight. THe problem has always been that fans can say and do what they want, regardless of how disrespectful they're being - the abuse dished out to SL is a good example - but they cry like little girls if they get something back.

If we do get relegated and end up in more trouble then it won't just be SISU to blame. I want to now here from CCC and PWKH regarding the letters CCFC say they have in their possession.

Coventry City will not progress until we get out of the clutches of PWKH, ACL and CCC.

Click to expand...

The thing is though once he leaves the Ricoh he can no longer blame them for anything. Any future relegations will be down to him.

Skybluerevolution (Pt2) said:

Do you all think if we could get a deal to stay at The Ricoh for the 3 years until a ground can be built fans would support that?

Click to expand...

No way will ACL ever agree to it.

Skybluerevolution (Pt2) said:

Well I am going tonight I will make a point of bringing this up if you or others on here can confirm that there is an offer there from ACL to meet. - would make more sense to have it as a open forum so we can hear what is said otherwise we revert to the status quo of he said she said.....ect ect.

Click to expand...

I think it was CJ on here who said they'd got an agreement from ACL but when asked if he would attend TF kept saying "I find that hard to believe" or something along those lines rather than just answer the feckin question!

BrisbaneBronco said:

No way will ACL ever agree to it.

Click to expand...

Of course they wouldn't. That's like your Mrs telling you she's leaving you, then asking if she can stay for tea

Yes I did. And you? Did you hear his saying documents exist that say CCC are not interested in negotiation? Even though ACL say constantly that the doors are open to CCFC. Well, which is it?

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

What documents? Did you listen last night Torchy?

Did you hear him admit he'd never even engaged with Compass even though it was offered to him? What do you make of that?

Click to expand...

Or like a joint venture company who are going to go tits up without having their main tenant - a football club in their football ground.

As someone said last night - heads need banging together.

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

Of course they wouldn't. That's like your Mrs telling you she's leaving you, then asking if she can stay for tea

Click to expand...

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

He side stepped that one several times over. Must be hard negotiating with someone like that, eh? As such, see my post above.

That stated, he should. He's already tied CCC and ACL up with the judicial review, and they - rightly - have stated they can't comment due to sub judice

Click to expand...

I just wish he'd been pressed more with that one rather than be allowed to get off the hook. Similarly when he was asked why the club wasn't for sale and he kept repeating "The club is not for sale" he should have been asked to answer the question asked. Agree though MMM, although ultimately I want SISU gone with a passion, the immediate priority is staying at the Ricoh and I think it would be a lot easier to broker a deal with Fisher gone and someone that hasn't completely alienated all the stakeholders in his place negotiating.

Skybluerevolution (Pt2) said:

Well I am going tonight I will make a point of bringing this up if you or others on here can confirm that there is an offer there from ACL to meet. - would make more sense to have it as a open forum so we can hear what is said otherwise we revert to the status quo of he said she said.....ect ect.

Click to expand...

It's already been asked last night, there is no need for he said she said as it was on the radio, fisher was told by a member of the sky blue trust that acl have agreed to meet with fisher next week if fisher was willing and he was not.

torchomatic said:

Yes I did. And you? Did you hear his saying documents exist that say CCC are not interested in negotiation? Even though ACL say constantly that the doors are open to CCFC. Well, which is it?

Click to expand...

Yes I did and read my post above about the context that would perhaps give rise to such a document being issued.

On the other point, you agree that he's admitted he never even spoke to Compass; yet you support a move to a stadium you don't know the location nor design of, as it'll give access to better incomes, including F&B's? Yet he hasn't even got to the bottom of what F&B's could be at our existing home? You think that's sensible?

torchomatic said:

But can it happen at the Ricoh? I don't think it can while ACL exist then the Club will never make enough revenue, whether SISU are in charge or not. Maybe CCC don't trust SISU. but if what Fisher said was true then did ACL/CCC renege on a deal also? I've said all along that both sides are culpable in this mess, and tend to get shouted down for saying it, but I still think that's true. If the Club are forced to move then I certainly don't think all those ridiculous letters written to Mutton begging them not to sell to SISU have helped the situation or the football club.

As for disrespect. Yeah, he did come across as smarmy, but to be fair, it was a charged atmosphere and I thought he did OK considering. Like many who seem to think Keith was some kind of hero with his "Look at me..." comment. That is disrespectful also. As soon as he stood up you could tell by his voice he was up for a fight. THe problem has always been that fans can say and do what they want, regardless of how disrespectful they're being - the abuse dished out to SL is a good example - but they cry like little girls if they get something back.

If we do get relegated and end up in more trouble then it won't just be SISU to blame. I want to now here from CCC and PWKH regarding the letters CCFC say they have in their possession.

Coventry City will not progress until we get out of the clutches of PWKH, ACL and CCC.

Click to expand...

All sides are culpable Torch for sure.

It's just a sorry mess and it all seems to boil down to distrust. If the Ricoh was privately owned then none of the parties would care one jot if one of the parties wasn't to be trusted, as long as the monies to buy were forthcoming.

Think ACL and the council are coming across like they need to be some kind of moral arbiter.

Skybluerevolution (Pt2) said:

Do you all think if we could get a deal to stay at The Ricoh for the 3 years until a ground can be built fans would support that?

Click to expand...

Not me
A stadium a third the size outside Coventry. Never in a million years.

Am I following this thread right.
After listening to TF at the forum you are falling in line to follow him.
Lambs to slaughter. Get some balls.
I don't want a small stadium, I don't want to stay in this division.
Stand up to him and he will go.
If he has a few followers he will draw on this and drive us into oblivion.

CCFCDan87 said:

And I feel many others did too. He is right when it comes to income we need every penny we can get. If the council have been cunts then I don't blame SISU in a way.

Maybe a new ground will be a good thing, least the 'club' will own it.

Click to expand...

If CCFC could immediately move into a new stadium 20k+ that it owned and the cost for doing so with mortgage payments or rent or whatever was under about 500k then yes this would be the best scenario.

However since none of that is possible it turns out for multiple reasons that despite the benefit of food and beverage income moving into the new stadium will be worse for us profit wise and worse for us revenue wise and this is what fisher won't accept.

Even if you assume that everyone who would be willing to go to the Ricoh would be willing to go to the newly build stadium (which is overly generous to fisher) his numbers still do not work. Over the next 3 years away (and it wont be 3 it will be more) we will drop to a few thousand fans, expecting everyone to come back when we move back to coventry is nuts, we would be at least a couple of thousand down, this alone will lower the revenue by more than the food and beverage income. (and of course the loss for this period will be millions which they could have used to buy the food and beverage income from compass who it turns out they never even tried to speak too)

Next there is the fact that having only a few k fans for 3 + years away means because of ffp we will have the lowest playing budget in the league. over 3 to 5 years this almost certainly means relegation, moving to the new ground as a league 2 club will again mean thousands less fans buying tickets and again this alone will lower revenue by more than the benefit of food and beverage income. Remember also that our first year in the new stadium will be using revenue numbers from the year before so we will have a terrible quality of team for the first year in the new stadium.

Next there is the fact imo that Sisu can't build a stadium for less than the 400k rent per year they could have agreed with ACL and I fully believe this will be the case even after taking food and beverage income into account.

Finally it's extremely likely that CCFC holdings would not own the new stadium, it's likely yet another sisu company would be set up to keep the stadium, so that they can still send us bust and keep the stadium, it's likely the club will have to pay rent to sisu.

AMAZING!!!!
I said all along that I don't trust ACL BUT how the fook do some of you lot manage to find ANY support for Timmy The Fish or ANY of the SISU Bollox.
After last night's stand and shout session at the Holiday Inn, I hate SISU more than ever.
A little nod of the head and a cap doffing is due to Stu Linnel for showing his support of the REAL fans and a wink to Carl Baker for being the first player to stand up and be counted.
Balls to Rushden and Walsall and Birmingham and Malmo and Cape Town and Venus and anywhere else that is outside of Coventry.

italiahorse said:

Am I following this thread right.
After listening to TF at the forum you are falling in line to follow him.
Lambs to slaughter. Get some balls.
I don't want a small stadium, I don't want to stay in this division.
Stand up to him and he will go.
If he has a few followers he will draw on this and drive us into oblivion.

Click to expand...

This is what I'm scared of...if he feels he's got a mandate to carry on with this stupid plan then he will. If they are made to see that it won't work without the fans backing then they may be more reluctant to press ahead with committing Hari-Kari. Those that go along with him are approving the potential signing of the club's death warrant as far as I'm concerned.

torchomatic said:

But can it happen at the Ricoh? I don't think it can while ACL exist then the Club will never make enough revenue, whether SISU are in charge or not. Maybe CCC don't trust SISU. but if what Fisher said was true then did ACL/CCC renege on a deal also? I've said all along that both sides are culpable in this mess, and tend to get shouted down for saying it, but I still think that's true. If the Club are forced to move then I certainly don't think all those ridiculous letters written to Mutton begging them not to sell to SISU have helped the situation or the football club.

As for disrespect. Yeah, he did come across as smarmy, but to be fair, it was a charged atmosphere and I thought he did OK considering. Like many who seem to think Keith was some kind of hero with his "Look at me..." comment. That is disrespectful also. As soon as he stood up you could tell by his voice he was up for a fight. THe problem has always been that fans can say and do what they want, regardless of how disrespectful they're being - the abuse dished out to SL is a good example - but they cry like little girls if they get something back.

If we do get relegated and end up in more trouble then it won't just be SISU to blame. I want to now here from CCC and PWKH regarding the letters CCFC say they have in their possession.

Coventry City will not progress until we get out of the clutches of PWKH, ACL and CCC.

Click to expand...

Do the figures. They don't stack up.
You will find that we are better off with the deal offered and renting the Ricoh than the 100% income from fewer fans.
Income will increase as we progress up the league but that will not be possible at the new stadium.
Don't be influenced, do your own rough figures.

Skybluerevolution (Pt2) said:

I do too - I think SISU have messed up in lot of ways, but with the introduction of FFP rules it makes the revenues stream for the club vital for survival never mind success, ACL have sold those rights to compass and it is clear that the club needs this income. I agree to the point that if SISU are the only show in town we should ALL maybe give them support it might just work out for us in the long run, I don't want to go to Walsall if it were to be Blues it would be easier for a lot of us and nearer for most, I am getting tired of all this now and just want to move on maybe this is the way forward for us. The message was clear that the club is NOT for sale so what choice do we than to back CCFC (Not SISU) If they club gets a offer from PH4 or The Chinese then so be it until then I have decided that I am going back to supporting my Club, I am at the forum tonight and will if I get the opportunity say this - I hope the rest of our support bite the bullet on this and continue to support OUR Club.

Click to expand...

{ ACL have sold those rights to compass}

coventry city sold the income streams not ACL

Delboycov said:

This is what I'm scared of...if he feels he's got a mandate to carry on with this stupid plan then he will. If they are made to see that it won't work without the fans backing then they may be more reluctant to press ahead with committing Hari-Kari. Those that go along with him are approving the potential signing of the club's death warrant as far as I'm concerned.

Click to expand...

Reinforced by him only inviting out of town fans to his first forum at Ryton. These people travel anyway so a few miles more (or less) would not bother them. He sounds a good talker and people are listening but not comprehending.
Give him a few weeks and he will be holding Nuremburg rallies for the brainwashed.

If the company in admin holds no shares, players etc then why wont the FL let us continue until it comes out of admin?
IF sisu are correct then surely that is the battle they should be fighting and no one would be interested in the company in admin as it has nothing but debt attached to it?

Why does no one seem to know who owns what?

torchomatic said:

Yes I did. And you? Did you hear his saying documents exist that say CCC are not interested in negotiation? Even though ACL say constantly that the doors are open to CCFC. Well, which is it?

Click to expand...

He said the same last week and was challenged to put this letter on the website for us all to see. He did say he would need to speak to his legal team 1st but I would be surprised if this did ever appear for us all to see. Between SISU & ACL someone is telling lies & in the mean time it feels our club is suffering the 'death of a thousand cuts'.

As far as the new ground goes its catch 22. This club with the contract in its current form at the Ricoh the club is dead, problem is if we move for the 3 season TF reckons it will take to build a new ground the club is dead anyway & TF stated last week there is no chance we will play next season at the Ricoh.

Cant say I agree with a lot Turkey neck says. They have reached the point of no return so should take the best offer they can and f*ck off. The whole 'ground share/new ground' is just absolutely bizarre. What are they hoping to achieve? More debts? No fans? We are hardly going to come crawling back after the shiny 12,000 seated is built. Do they think all will be forgotten? Where on earth in the footballing abyss will we even be in 3 years assuming these clowns are still here?! To make it all the more frustrating we have a fresh start waiting in the wings. A fresh start which would rid us of this poison, mount a decent challenge for promotion, obtain half of the ground and the number of returning fans would swell dramatically. Not once since THEY plunged us into Administration have they apologised. The 10 point deduction..no apology. Failing to keep hold of Robins no apology. This plan borders on the insane! hopefully with another hostile crowd tonight they might (just might) get the message that they are despised! Keep up the good work SBA!!

italiahorse said:

Am I following this thread right.
After listening to TF at the forum you are falling in line to follow him.
Lambs to slaughter. Get some balls.
I don't want a small stadium, I don't want to stay in this division.
Stand up to him and he will go.
If he has a few followers he will draw on this and drive us into oblivion.

Click to expand...

No youre not following the thread right. Not as far as im concerned anyway. no one is saying Tim is innocent, i just dont think acl are either.

If we are driven to oblivion then acl will have played their part in this whole sorry mess.

Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2

Sky Blue Pete said:

Naive beyond belief!!

Click to expand...

Totally agree - I really can't believe how some are totally suckered in by Tim 'We have no debt' Fisher and his management waffle - he was squirming like David Brent at times the snake! Forget the revenue streams they are all being paid to SISU via management fees.

The accounts are a mess, but Fisher signed them off!The Golden Share discussion was a total deflection !! THEY (SISU) are holding up the administration process!

torchomatic said:

No youre not following the thread right. Not as far as im concerned anyway. no one is saying Tim is innocent, i just dont think acl are either.

If we are driven to oblivion then acl will have played their part in this whole sorry mess.

Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2

Click to expand...

ACL are a business and will try to maximise profits. They made a move in the right direction and more refinement was needed particularly with the revenue streams. For some reason SISU changed there mind and pulled out.

CCFC will never own the stadium but I would sooner ACL own it than SISU.

Don't fall into the trap of believing everything TF tells you.

CCFCDan87 said:

And I feel many others did too. He is right when it comes to income we need every penny we can get. If the council have been c-units then I don't blame SISU in a way.

Maybe a new ground will be a good thing, least the 'club' will own it.

Click to expand...

I don't think anyone disagrees with the club having access to income streams including the council unfortunately SISU's actions both pre and post Tim mean that that is never going to happen under SISU. There was a way of doing it which is cheaper and more realistic than Joy's latest plan.

The new owners want to walk that route.

If the council were completely wrong no one would be interested at all as some predicted.

torchomatic said:

No youre not following the thread right. Not as far as im concerned anyway. no one is saying Tim is innocent, i just dont think acl are either.

If we are driven to oblivion then acl will have played their part in this whole sorry mess.

Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2

Click to expand...

yep for sure.. as much , if not more to blame!

ideal scenario is that a brand new owner comes in.. buys out SISU & buys out ACL. two obstacles in the way though

will ACL ( and when i say ACL, i mean mainly the council a & their 50% ) sell to anyone .. i dont think so

will SISU sell for any reasonable amount.. i dont think so

and round and round we go

torchomatic said:

I agree wth the sentiment of a new ground too. However, leaving Coventry in the meantime is a mistake. They need to negotiate with ACL to play at the Ricoh in the interim. I want to hear what CCC and PWKH have to say about it all too. Fisher said they have documents sent to CCFC stating that ACL will never broker a deal. If this is true then it changes the whole complexion of things.

Click to expand...

If they have and they are dated recently then I have no problem with that.
If someone keeps taking the Michael at some point you have to draw a line.

There's some gullible twats on here.

torchomatic said:

Yes I did. And you? Did you hear his saying documents exist that say CCC are not interested in negotiation? Even though ACL say constantly that the doors are open to CCFC. Well, which is it?

Click to expand...

Do you think it is more a case ACL are saying they need to deal with the administrator like for the last three games. The official football club with the share not holdings?

valiant15 said:

There's some gullible twats on here.

Click to expand...

I think I'm gonna Puke.

Im sure the usual chearleaders will be happy in sisus crappy 11k stadium with about 2k fans.3rd tier and lower forever if these idiots stay in charge.Some people are to scared not to follow dim tim and to dum not to see the truth.:jerkit: The club needs to own its revenue streams but people seem to forget we sold them:facepalm:Hopefully the ricoh and the club can be united when the leeches have gone.

valiant15 said:

Im sure the usual chearleaders will be happy in sisus crappy 11k stadium with about 2k fans.3rd tier and lower forever if these idiots stay in charge.Some people are to scared not to follow dim tim and to dum not to see the truth.:jerkit: The club needs to own its revenue streams but people seem to forget we sold them:facepalm:Hopefully the ricoh and the club can be united when the leeches have gone.

Click to expand...

And in the alternate universe that is all well and fantastic, but on earth time is against us, SISU own everything including players and what not, no one knows what's in Ltd which everyone else is buying and we have no home.

Can't wait to be a cheerleader in that fab new crappy 11k stadium :claping hands::claping hands:

torchomatic said:

No youre not following the thread right. Not as far as im concerned anyway. no one is saying Tim is innocent, i just dont think acl are either.

If we are driven to oblivion then acl will have played their part in this whole sorry mess.

Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2

Click to expand...

Most of us agree that acl are not totally blameless.
We have 70million reasons though why we should do everything we can to get Sisu out of our club !!!
You possibly still can't think there is a sustainable way forward with Sisu still in control ?

You best take that picture of igwe off. It makes you look a tad two faced.