I am sure someone will enlighten me. (1 Viewer)

Philosoraptor · Jan 11, 2014

Lets say for argument sake that SISU, or whatever they are calling themselves this week, are actually telling the truth in wanting to build a new stadium outside Coventry.

They invest the estimated, lets say £20 Million, into building a new stadium.

How could SISU possibly sell CCFC if the only major money they can make from the stadium is if CCFC plays there.

Surely the new owners of CCFC, if SISU ever sell, would have a choice of stadiums to choose from, and drive prices to the minimum.

I don't understand this logic. How long would it take SISU to recoup their investment in their time at our club?

I am sure people will enlighten me on this forum with the maths.

blueflint · Jan 11, 2014

ask RFC he may know

Cheshire Sky Blue · Jan 11, 2014

Interesting thought Philosorapter. If they do build a stadium, it would be interesting to see how they could recoup cash without selling the stadium and the club as one entity. With the RICOH so close it would reduce the value of any new stadium (Supply & demand I guess)

Hadn't thought of this little conundrum for SISU

Flying Fokker · Jan 11, 2014

Cheshire Sky Blue said:
Interesting thought Philosorapter. If they do build a stadium, it would be interesting to see how they could recoup cash without selling the stadium and the club as one entity. With the RICOH so close it would reduce the value of any new stadium (Supply & demand I guess)

Hadn't thought of this little conundrum for SISU

I doubt anyone had thought about it. SISU's only revenue streams will be a stadium that is used 25 weeks in the year. They are on a hiding to nothing.

How much to build a stadium? £20 million? Plus another 20 mill in wages and lost revenue? The Ricoh has all of the things SISU needs.

An offer of £40 million for the lease may save money in long run. Why don't they do it?

Philosoraptor · Jan 11, 2014

Cheshire Sky Blue said:
Interesting thought Philosorapter. If they do build a stadium, it would be interesting to see how they could recoup cash without selling the stadium and the club as one entity. With the RICOH so close it would reduce the value of any new stadium (Supply & demand I guess)

Hadn't thought of this little conundrum for SISU

I agree, but I can't see why anyone would want to buy this stadium and CCFC, also how would SISU recoup their estimated losses? They are looking at an estimated expansion, again in my opinion only, to be a viable Championship side before they could even think about selling the club.

I don't understand any of this.

Godiva · Jan 11, 2014

Flying Fokker said:
I doubt anyone had thought about it. SISU's only revenue streams will be a stadium that is used 25 weeks in the year. They are on a hiding to nothing.

How much to build a stadium? £20 million? Plus another 20 mill in wages and lost revenue? The Ricoh has all of the things SISU needs.

An offer of £40 million for the lease may save money in long run. Why don't they do it?

You're right. Nobody has thought about that.
It hasn't been debated at all.
Not the last hour I think.

Philosoraptor · Jan 11, 2014

Godiva said:
You're right. Nobody has thought about that.
It hasn't been debated at all.
Not the last hour I think.

This is why I have moved on the conversation a bit on the outcome for SISU building this stadium which hasn't, I think, been debated.

Godiva · Jan 11, 2014

Philosorapter said:
This is why I have moved on the conversation a bit on the outcome for SISU building this stadium which hasn't, I think, been debated.

The only way sisu can ever sell the club is in a package club/stadium.

Philosoraptor · Jan 11, 2014

Godiva said:
The only way sisu can ever sell the club is in a package club/stadium.

How could SISU make a profit though on building a 12,000 seater stadium and selling it?

simple_simon · Jan 11, 2014

Philosorapter said:
Lets say for argument sake that SISU, or whatever they are calling themselves this week, are actually telling the truth in wanting to build a new stadium outside Coventry.

They invest the estimated, lets say £20 Million, into building a new stadium.

How could SISU possibly sell CCFC if the only major money they can make from the stadium is if CCFC plays there.

Surely the new owners of CCFC, if SISU ever sell, would have a choice of stadiums to choose from, and drive prices to the minimum.

I don't understand this logic. How long would it take SISU to recoup their investment in their time at our club?

I am sure people will enlighten me on this forum with the maths.

Good points but been discussed before, the vast majority of us do not understand either but you will find a couple of brain washed Sixfields attendees who will give you a little " Fisher Bull" and explain in detail.

Philosoraptor · Jan 11, 2014

simple_simon said:
Good points but been discussed before, the vast majority of us do not understand either but you will find a couple of brain washed Sixfields attendees who will give you a little " Fisher Bull" and explain in detail.

Could anyone point out where this has been discussed in the forum?

With some maths etc.

Flying Fokker · Jan 11, 2014

The clowns in charge of SISU are some performers. If this is part of their strategy to get the Ricoh then they are pushing it. When will their bluff stop?

Fans need to hold firm. The club was always likely to die with SISU anyway. Phoenix club is the only option. Someone should reveal their plans for a new club playing at the Ricoh. People who want a club in Coventry need to force this issue put out a few bulletins and use the methods of a lion and fox to get football back in Coventry. I'm at point where something needs to happen. I could easily say that SISU have stolen the club. But no, the club will always be its fans.

A new club in Coventry will be the real Sky Blues.

ecky · Jan 11, 2014

Philosorapter said:
How could SISU make a profit though on building a 12,000 seater stadium and selling it?

Excellent point... sisu are moaning about revenue streams right?
what other revenue will they get from their new stadium? nil...

buy the ricoh and you get 12 months income in whatever form that may be

Cheshire Sky Blue · Jan 11, 2014

Flying Fokker said:
The clowns in charge of SISU are some performers. If this is part of their strategy to get the Ricoh then they are pushing it. When will their bluff stop?

Fans need to hold firm. The club was always likely to die with SISU anyway. Phoenix club is the only option. Someone should reveal their plans for a new club playing at the Ricoh. People who want a club in Coventry need to force this issue put out a few bulletins and use the methods of a lion and fox to get football back in Coventry. I'm at point where something needs to happen. I could easily say that SISU have stolen the club. But no, the club will always be its fans.

A new club in Coventry will be the real Sky Blues.

Have come to the same conclusion myself FF. If this is to be the eventual outcome, let it be soon. As soon as we can rid our City of SISU and its odious owners and investors signals when I can reinvest my money and energy in the REAL CCFC!!

Philosoraptor · Jan 11, 2014

I found it but the thread withered away.

oldskyblue58 said:
well according to what was reportedly said then the new stadium would be financed by a mix of debt and equity, the debt or loans being based on future income streams. Equity was supposed to come from other partners investing in the site and the owners gaining a premium on that to invest in the stadium build - except last night (as I understand it) it was said that there would only be football related income streams on the site and the additional income streams would be from the fan zone. Please correct me if I have misunderstood. That seems to me to be a change in finance plan originally put forward and likely means a high proportion of debt in the build cost finance.

mortgaging future income steams makes me uneasy ...... I believe this has been suggested as how finance will be achieved

Now that debt could come from additional funds from investors which could be interest free but would you want to invest in a very highly geared project for no return ? .... or it could be interest bearing finance from the likes of finance institutions which could include ARVO ...... or a mix of both

Just to illustrate £25m over 20 years at 3% APR would mean repayments of £139k per month or £1.668m per year

Is that a manageable level of debt without being promoted quickly to the top division? Bear in mind that is on top of debt already in place that pays interest to ARVO at around £1m per annum. Would the stadium suggested actually maximise the windfall of being in the Premiership? If we "only" get promoted to the Championship then the finance costs wont change but income levels will compared to the top division. If we bump along in League 1 say like Charlton did for 5 or 6 years how does the finances stack up then?

I think we need a lot of clear factual explanation before we can be convinced of the finances on this. Could it be done possibly but the trade off is the fans expectations of the new ground and quality on the field I think. We simply are not viable to anyone if we do not get debt levels down long term - nothing I have seen so far suggests a reduction in debt any time soon

I think was it said here is important. I can't see if SISU builds this stadium how they can sell this on at a profit or how long would it be before they could sell it on at a profit.

Jack Griffin · Jan 11, 2014

I guess this is the concept they're talking about for a fans zone, imported from the states.. however there is no reason this couldn't be done at the Ricoh.
http://www.gopack.com/sports/promos/spec-rel/football-fan-zone.html
http://www.aggieathletics.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205238042

And here is Everton's version
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2013/11/18/derby-fan-zone-activity

Philosoraptor · Jan 11, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
I guess this is the concept they're talking about for a fans zone, imported from the states.. however there is no reason this couldn't be done at the Ricoh.
http://www.gopack.com/sports/promos/spec-rel/football-fan-zone.html
http://www.aggieathletics.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205238042

And here is Everton's version
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2013/11/18/derby-fan-zone-activity

Basically a fan zone is a way of getting the punters in, to increase the time they spend at the football stadium, hoping to make money from food and drink and other sales.

It is a good idea.

Now again forgive my knowledge at what went on at the Ricoh, it is a bit hazy, but does the contract that ACL has with Compass say that a fan zone would be included within this, or would this be a separate thing for SISU to profit from?

Jack Griffin · Jan 11, 2014

Philosorapter said:
Basically a fan zone is a way of getting the punters in, to increase the time they spend at the football stadium, hoping to make money from food and drink and other sales.

It is a good idea.

Now again forgive my knowledge at what went on at the Ricoh, it is a bit hazy, but does the contract that ACL has with Compass say that a fan zone would be included with in this, or would this be separate thing for SISU to profit from?

As ACL occasionally staged other events on matchdays (most notably Davis Cup) then I'd guess CCFC would've had to hire facilities... and of course the casino was there, but I'd say historically both ACL & CCFC missed a trick there..

The concourse was of course open, but that's just match catering / bars & a few betting shops, hardly a special attraction. There may have been some kids events?

Philosoraptor · Jan 11, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
As ACL occasionally staged other events on matchdays (most notably Davis Cup) then I'd guess CCFC would've had to hire facilities... and of course the casino was there, but I'd say historically both ACL & CCFC missed a trick there..

The concourse was of course open, but that's just match catering / bars & a few betting shops, hardly a special attraction. There may have been some kids events?

This does lead to more questions.

If an all day event is possible at a football club, lets take the Ricoh as the example, then the pricing of tickets is not as important as getting people to attend this fan zone. We know we can fill the stadium out or as close to it at £5 a time for a ticket. If you have only 15,000 people attending (which may be a wild figure) up to a couple of hours before a match to participate in these events, then should the whole pricing structure and how the Ricoh organises event need to be changed to fit into this new business model?

Did the club have access to only certain resources during match days and not the whole of the Ricoh?

I like many other just went through the turnstiles around 15 minutes before a game started and the odd visit to the casino.

Hobo · Jan 11, 2014

Philosoraptor you don't need enlightenment as you can see the light....it makes no sense that's why they are not building a stadium and just dicking everyone around.

Paxman II · Jan 11, 2014

Interesting thoughts in these threads. I will say though that you have to think outside the box a little more to find the answers...

IF a new stadium was to be built then SISU would not be paying for it (certainly not up front) A developer would finance and build it.
Eventually it would be owned by SISU/Otium.

The stadium would facilitate concerts and other events as does the Ricoh. A good marketing plan would win out over the much larger Ricoh.

Ricoh would not continue to sponsor a stadium without a major anchor tenant such as CCFC remember.
ACL will have serious problems maintaining use for the Ricoh and making it viable in my opinion.

We all know the Ricoh cost some £113m. That money came from various sources including CCFC, Tesco and the council to finally rescue the project to completion.
The natural permanent owners should be the football club.

A valuation has I understand put a figure of less than £30m on it? I say let the football club have it for £30m. A cut price freehold where the council/ACL receive their money back for the taxpayer and unite the football club and that area of Coventry for more development to follow would be a good thing.

SISU would have an exit strategy then in place to sell the club and stadium as one entity and a value perhaps £40/50m thus getting their money back and be gone!

If the council allow another stadium to be built under their noses by a developer they will end up with a white elephant called the Arena.

None of this will be open to discussion until we see an end to the judicial review when it will finally get serious.

Tonylinc · Jan 11, 2014

Philosorapter said:
This does lead to more questions.

If an all day event is possible at a football club, lets take the Ricoh as the example, then the pricing of tickets is not as important as getting people to attend this fan zone. We know we can fill the stadium out or as close to it at £5 a time for a ticket. If you have only 15,000 people attending (which may be a wild figure) up to a couple of hours before a match to participate in these events, then should the whole pricing structure and how the Ricoh organises event need to be changed to fit into this new business model?

Did the club have access to only certain resources during match days and not the whole of the Ricoh?

I like many other just went through the turnstiles around 15 minutes before a game started and the odd visit to the casino.

As far as I know the club only made money from matchday tickets, sales of merchandise from the shop, programmes and shirt sponsorship on matchdays. Not even sure whether they made from pitchside advertising. Having said that I really can't see them making much more from a "new" stadium. What would that include? a few pies and pints? oh and parking? This whole new stadium idea makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

savosdad · Jan 11, 2014

SISU losing money for fun it'll all end soon mark my words build your stadium put your money in it'll soon run out you have no ambition look at really top premiership clubs losing money on 60,000 plus gates sisu will need to sell a lot of fuckin pies to recoup their loses no way with 12000 stadium . Buy the Ricoh you fucking wankers

Philosoraptor · Jan 11, 2014

Tonylinc said:
As far as I know the club only made money from matchday tickets, sales of merchandise from the shop, programmes and shirt sponsorship on matchdays. Not even sure whether they made from pitchside advertising. Having said that I really can't see them making much more from a "new" stadium. What would that include? a few pies and pints? oh and parking? This whole new stadium idea makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Again, forgive my absolutely wonderful MS Paint skills.

Lets take the Sky Blue area as the Ricoh for example and the orange as the time people have to buy a pint and a pie.

If the price went down to £5 a ticket then the area of selling stuff to people would increase dramatically with a Fan Zone. I have filled in an imaginary area around the average attendance of the Ricoh where food and drink would be accessible if this was the case but I could be well off. You should though get the general idea.

Who would get this revenue or if this would be viable is anyone's guess.

Instead of a mad 15 minute scramble at half time, a hell of lot more could be sold.

I guess the more you increase the footprint, the more money can be made.

Tonylinc · Jan 11, 2014

The point that I am trying to make is that any new stadium has to be "multi-purpose" and this new one will not be. So, any income streams will be obtained every other Saturday only and on that basis the figures simply do not stack up.

Jack Griffin · Jan 11, 2014

Philosorapter said:
View attachment 3197
Again, forgive my absolutely wonderful MS Paint skills.

Lets take the Sky Blue area as the Ricoh for example and the orange as the time people have to buy a pint and a pie.

If the price went down to £5 a ticket then the area of selling stuff to people would increase dramatically with a Fan Zone. I have filled in an imaginary area around the average attendance of the Ricoh where food and drink would be accessible if this was the case but I could be well off. You should though get the general idea.

Who would get this revenue or if this would be viable is anyone's guess.

Instead of a mad 15 minute scramble at half time, a hell of lot more could be sold.

I guess the more you increase the footprint, the more money can be made.

If there was massive matchday merchandising streams don't you think all the big clubs would be on to it by now.. no the only real way to generate income in a stadium is to 'sweat the asset' (to use the buzz words Fisher came out with), that is to get use of it 7 days a week.

skybluefred · Jan 11, 2014

I think either a merger with the cobblers or buying Nene Park is the most likely outcome.

Our playing staff are worth circa £2m, You could probably buy Nene Park for £10m and it
holds 6500 fans, and about 1500 are standing which would not be allowed in the Championship.

Because it's not in Coventry the crowds would be hard pushed to reach 1500, especially because
it would be a franchise club playing under a different name than CCFC.

Every decision sisu have made since buying the Club has been a footballing disaster. The above two
thought's would be another one,and it is highly unlikely they would get planning permission for
the Exhall charade.

There is one and only one way sisu have a chance of getting a return for their investors and that's
a return to the RICOH. If they leave a return untill after the JR and lose it there chances of getting
a decent deal will have greatly diminished.

Jack Griffin · Jan 11, 2014

skybluefred said:
I think either a merger with the cobblers or buying Nene Park is the most likely outcome.

Our playing staff are worth circa £2m, You could probably buy Nene Park for £10m and it
holds 6500 fans, and about 1500 are standing which would not be allowed in the Championship.

Because it's not in Coventry the crowds would be hard pushed to reach 1500, especially because
it would be a franchise club playing under a different name than CCFC.

Every decision sisu have made since buying the Club has been a footballing disaster. The above two
thought's would be another one,and it is highly unlikely they would get planning permission for
the Exhall charade.

There is one and only one way sisu have a chance of getting a return for their investors and that's
a return to the RICOH. If they leave a return untill after the JR and lose it there chances of getting
a decent deal will have greatly diminished.

Nene park is a no goer.

A move for Conference side Northampton Town (renamed Northampton County) to Nene Park with Northampton Sky Blues making Sixfields their permanent home is more likely..

Neither of which scenarios do I think will happen.

Como · Jan 11, 2014

This has been discussed many many times.

If you have a local benefactor who has more money than they can spend and wants an interest then of course you can make a case for a new stadium etc etc.

If you have an investment company looking to make a good return for its investors, then there is no way any of this makes sense.

Nobody knows what SISU really have at stake, I think everybody can agree that they have lost far more than any fire sale of the very few assets could produce.

I find it difficult to believe there is any developer stupid enough to invest in a new ground where the security for their investment is the rent to be paid by CCFC.

Let us say that the Club could be sold tomorrow for 5m, big if, if SISu spend 2om on a new ground, 10m for the land would it now be worth more than 35m?

When I say worth I mean somebody willing to put down that sort of money.

Sounds very unlikely.

stupot07 · Jan 11, 2014

skybluefred said:
I think either a merger with the cobblers or buying Nene Park is the most likely outcome.

More scaremongering nonsense - neither of these things are going to happen.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

wingy · Jan 11, 2014

savosdad said:
SISU losing money for fun it'll all end soon mark my words build your stadium put your money in it'll soon run out you have no ambition look at really top premiership clubs losing money on 60,000 plus gates sisu will need to sell a lot of fuckin pies to recoup their loses no way with 12000 stadium . Buy the Ricoh you fucking wankers

That is what they want,and they hope we do the Shouting !!

letsallsingtogether · Jan 11, 2014

I wouldn't bet on any thing concerning sisu nothing they do makes any sense.

As for scaremongering they are legends at that.

stupot07 said:
More scaremongering nonsense - neither of these things are going to happen.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

letsallsingtogether · Jan 11, 2014

We will leave that to RFC as he follows SP and the Boys.

wingy said:
That is what they want,and they hope we do the Shouting !!

skybluefred · Jan 11, 2014

stupot07 said:
More scaremongering nonsense - neither of these things are going to happen.

If you read the posts instead of guessing what was said- then you would see that I said it would be another
footballing disaster. That terminology also describes sisu's tenure of CCFC.

Flying Fokker · Jan 11, 2014

skybluefred said:
I think either a merger with the cobblers or buying Nene Park is the most likely outcome.

Our playing staff are worth circa £2m, You could probably buy Nene Park for £10m and it
holds 6500 fans, and about 1500 are standing which would not be allowed in the Championship.

Because it's not in Coventry the crowds would be hard pushed to reach 1500, especially because
it would be a franchise club playing under a different name than CCFC.

Every decision sisu have made since buying the Club has been a footballing disaster. The above two
thought's would be another one,and it is highly unlikely they would get planning permission for
the Exhall charade.

There is one and only one way sisu have a chance of getting a return for their investors and that's
a return to the RICOH. If they leave a return untill after the JR and lose it there chances of getting
a decent deal will have greatly diminished.

Oh great. I can stop supporting city earlier than I thought. : (. I do not support football. I only support city. I will support a Phoenix club at the the Ricoh. When the time comes.

I am sure someone will enlighten me. (1 Viewer)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Jack Griffin

Guest

Well-Known Member

Jack Griffin

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Banned

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Jack Griffin

Guest

New Member

Jack Griffin

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency