If Hoffman wasn't heading up a failed consortium .... (2 Viewers)

rob9872 · May 21, 2012

... and there was never an option mentioned to have SISU removed, could last season have been different?

We know about wanting SISU out and all the lies that have been fed to us, but if Hoffman had kept quiet and not offered false hope early on last year, would the protests have surfaced at all? Do you think that affected how SISU treated/financed us and do you think if there were no distractions of such nature, we would have gained any extra points that may have got us over the other side of the relegation line?

I'm not suggesting that's the case but equally I can't see any good or positive news that has come out of any proposed takeover stories by Him, Keys or anyoneone else. If anything its been divisive amongst supporters at a time when we whould be together.

wingy · May 21, 2012

You're possibly right but i think fan dissatisfaction over the destruction of the squad played a massive part in the antipathy,then over zealous stewarding started a ball rolling and here we are.

Grendel · May 21, 2012

To be fair to Hoffman he has never said a word has he. Keys has been proved to be a media craving buffoon and the so called "insiders" on here are probably WUM's or support another club and are having a laugh. It was obvious to many nothing was ever happening but all this nonsense created a snowball of hope. Perhaps he should have publicly distanced himself from it.

rob9872 · May 21, 2012

I thought he started all this originally saying that he would save the club? Wasn't there a front page headline to that end? He was certainly talking on the radio to CWR very early on but wouldn't give details (only adding to speculation) until SISU outed one of his investors.

wingy · May 21, 2012

Perhaps he still should!!!

wingy · May 21, 2012

I think the Sisu plan for the season was iron cast before there was any hint from Gh Rob.

skybluesam66 · May 21, 2012

i asked him at saints game - he still said then it was on - Jojar hoffman

rob9872 · May 21, 2012

wingy said:
I think the Sisu plan for the season was iron cast before there was any hint from Gh Rob.

Yeah I think you're right mate tbh, just wondered if people thought it could have made any difference at all. In all probability it wouldn't have but since there has been no further progress and all of the dirty laundry aired in public, I just wonder what good if any has come of it and there seem to be more divisions between sets of supporters than at any time I can remmeber and not all because of SISU. They need to go for sure, but I don't believe there has ever been even the remotest possibility of that happening and that all we have achieved is to further alienate them from us.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · May 21, 2012

I said exactly this a week ago, the speculation Hoffman and Keys have created just fuelled the fans action against SISU, destabilised the club and contributed to our relegation.

Ultimately it is SISU's own doing but the uncertainty created done more harm than good imo.

wingy · May 21, 2012

I'm sure they feel alienated in the way we do ,i think their eurika moment came around March and from that point there will be no funding of us ,thus the charge.I think we'd all be surprised at how close TF and Gh are regards communication ,with the former reffering to the latter in benevolent terms followed by well meaning, without means.IF GH could have delivered i'm sure he would have ,but when you consider who he's negotiated with,by the same token if he has'nt the means he should say so ,so why has'nt he?

dongonzalos · May 21, 2012

Is it not the case that he did make a bid and SISU dismissed it as he would not reveal his backers.

Then he has never came back to them. But always said he would be in the background and will only speak when it is either completely not an option or it is done?

ACL has said he has never been involved with them.

However I assume he would not even waste his time starting to talk to ACL into SISU considered his offer seriously.

Grendel · May 22, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Is it not the case that he did make a bid and SISU dismissed it as he would not reveal his backers.

Then he has never came back to them. But always said he would be in the background and will only speak when it is either completely not an option or it is done?

ACL has said he has never been involved with them.

However I assume he would not even waste his time starting to talk to ACL into SISU considered his offer seriously.

I saw Delieu one day and offered him a couple of quid. Double the Hoffman bid but not good enough.

torchomatic · May 22, 2012

No, Hoffman was talking at first. I remember him saying he wouldn't walk away or something along those lines.

kduffy said:
To be fair to Hoffman he has never said a word has he. Keys has been proved to be a media craving buffoon and the so called "insiders" on here are probably WUM's or support another club and are having a laugh. It was obvious to many nothing was ever happening but all this nonsense created a snowball of hope. Perhaps he should have publicly distanced himself from it.

Grendel · May 22, 2012

torchomatic said:
No, Hoffman was talking at first. I remember him saying he wouldn't walk away or something along those lines.

Yes it seems your'e right and he was still at it in April;

"I'm as frustrated as everyone else with the fact that I haven't made the progress with investors that I had hoped to," Hoffman told the Coventry Telegraph.

"It is not worth going into all the history but it hasn't been for the lack of trying.

"Everyone will appreciate what a moving target this has been and things have gone from bad to worse.

"I am prepared to spend as much time on this as it takes and will go anywhere to help make it happen.

"Of course I can't promise anything will get done. The investors have not gone away despite being told to go away a few times.

"But, of course, when it became obvious that League One was a real possibility the proposition changed and they have been biding their time. I wish they hadn't but that's a reality."

Maiden Cov · May 22, 2012

rob9872 said:
... and there was never an option mentioned to have SISU removed, could last season have been different?

We know about wanting SISU out and all the lies that have been fed to us, but if Hoffman had kept quiet and not offered false hope early on last year, would the protests have surfaced at all? Do you think that affected how SISU treated/financed us and do you think if there were no distractions of such nature, we would have gained any extra points that may have got us over the other side of the relegation line?

I'm not suggesting that's the case but equally I can't see any good or positive news that has come out of any proposed takeover stories by Him, Keys or anyoneone else. If anything its been divisive amongst supporters at a time when we whould be together.

I was thinking the same, if earlier in the season we didn't have that distraction i'm sure we could have got a few more points. However, the club released a statement earlier this year saying they were talking to Gary and his associates, which if anything only helped to fuel the fans expectations.

The only update I've heard since that statement was at the Herbert gallry forum when Tim Fisher said "There is no one else".
Perhaps if the club have learned from their lessons and are going to improve communications like they say then we'll get a statement giving us an update on the talks or put the matter to bed....

Paxman II · May 22, 2012

The question for me is why did Hoffman make such false hope statements back in the first place? He followed up with ridiculous bids of £1 without any substance and when SISU defended it as silly everyone called SISU all sorts and they 'must be lying'?
It has turned out over time Hoffman has been seen to have more bark than bite. He has failed to convince any investors or even work a way out to get himself to the table as SISU have now achieved with the council etc.
Keys and co were all mouthing off about 'it happening' and I just wonder how he feels now that Hoffman has shown no substance to anything he has whispered through the channels like Keys etc?
I don't rate him at all, fail to see how he has his job and wish he would just have the balls to admit he has been unable to come through and make anything happen.
My best guess is that when the hard work has been done by SISU and a slice of the Ricoh is acquired he will then surface with his vultures looking for action. I don't believe he would have our best interest at heart anymore than SISU. I sincerely hope he proves me wrong on all counts!

DazzleTommyDazzle · May 22, 2012

Paxman II said:
The question for me is why did Hoffman make such false hope statements back in the first place? He followed up with ridiculous bids of £1 without any substance and when SISU defended it as silly everyone called SISU all sorts and they 'must be lying'?
It has turned out over time Hoffman has been seen to have more bark than bite. He has failed to convince any investors or even work a way out to get himself to the table as SISU have now achieved with the council etc.
Keys and co were all mouthing off about 'it happening' and I just wonder how he feels now that Hoffman has shown no substance to anything he has whispered through the channels like Keys etc?
I don't rate him at all, fail to see how he has his job and wish he would just have the balls to admit he has been unable to come through and make anything happen.
My best guess is that when the hard work has been done by SISU and a slice of the Ricoh is acquired he will then surface with his vultures looking for action. I don't believe he would have our best interest at heart anymore than SISU. I sincerely hope he proves me wrong on all counts!

As £1 is in your opinion a "ridiculous bid", what value would you put on a company that has no assets (that have not been mortgaged), has consistently lost money and which now faces a significant decrease in revenue due to its relegation? Could you also refresh my memory as to the value SISU put on CCFC shares when they bought the business, as I'm confident that they would never make a "ridiculous" offer.

Oh and at what point would you consider the "hard work" will have "been done by SISU" - when we're in the Conference?

covross · May 22, 2012

I do wonder what could of been if Sam Allardyce was not a director of CUJU8. Hopefully Hoffman gets it right this time. pusb

lordsummerisle · May 22, 2012

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
As £1 is in your opinion a "ridiculous bid", what value would you put on a company that has no assets (that have not been mortgaged), has consistently lost money and which now faces a significant decrease in revenue due to its relegation? Could you also refresh my memory as to the value SISU put on CCFC shares when they bought the business, as I'm confident that they would never make a "ridiculous" offer.

Oh and at what point would you consider the "hard work" will have "been done by SISU" - when we're in the Conference?

He probably got the idea from his partner Teflon Joe, who went round knocking on people's doors to get them to give away their shares to SISU for nothing, may have even heard it mentioned during the three years he was on the board.

lordsummerisle · May 22, 2012

covross said:
I do wonder what could of been if Sam Allardyce was not a director of CUJU8. Hopefully Hoffman gets it right this time. pusb

Gets it right this time? There has never been any bid of any substance at all, and nor is there now.

Do people read these forums or just hopelessly emote?

DazzleTommyDazzle · May 22, 2012

lordsummerisle said:
He probably got the idea from his partner Teflon Joe, who went round knocking on people's doors to get them to give away their shares to SISU for nothing, may have even heard it mentioned during the three years he was on the board.

So you think both were ridiculous, neither were ridiculous or it was ridiculous from Hoffman but not from SISU?

SonofErnie · May 22, 2012

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
As £1 is in your opinion a "ridiculous bid", what value would you put on a company that has no assets (that have not been mortgaged), has consistently lost money and which now faces a significant decrease in revenue due to its relegation? Could you also refresh my memory as to the value SISU put on CCFC shares when they bought the business, as I'm confident that they would never make a "ridiculous" offer.

Oh and at what point would you consider the "hard work" will have "been done by SISU" - when we're in the Conference?

If you live in a house with a mortgage, you would still want paying for it. It's still your asset and has value, regardless of whether a mortgage is held against it. If that's you genuine belief, then I'm coming round to your house to offer £1 for it !!

DazzleTommyDazzle · May 22, 2012

SonofErnie said:
If you live in a house with a mortgage, you would still want paying for it. It's still your asset and has value, regardless of whether a mortgage is held against it. If that's you genuine belief, then I'm coming round to your house to offer £1 for it !!

Rather depends on the value of the asset and the value of the mortgage doesn't it.

If I had a house that was worth say £500k but had it as part security against a loan of £1m, I'd very happily accept your offer of £1 for the house and loan. In fact as it's you, you could have it for 50p!

Slightly more seriously, in addition to the mortgages/charges over the assets there are also the liabilities of the company to consider. We know that we're at least 2 months behind on the rent (£200k for starters) and I don't think you have to be too cynical to wonder if we're fully up to date with PAYE and VAT payments.

Anyway as you obviously think the club is a valuable company, I'd love to have a chat with you about these Nigerian oil shares I could offer you...........

lordsummerisle · May 22, 2012

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
So you think both were ridiculous, neither were ridiculous or it was ridiculous from Hoffman but not from SISU?

Both ridiculous, though I understand the Sisu bid also took on the debts of the club at the time, which even taking player values into account would have still been considerable.

Don't believe that Hoffman's bid was willing to underwrite any losses Sisu had accrued(though as a phantom bid, nobody really knows), and a pound a ridiculous sum , unless Juke went for 50p and Turner 25p, which not beyond the realms of possibility.

SonofErnie · May 22, 2012

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
Rather depends on the value of the asset and the value of the mortgage doesn't it.

If I had a house that was worth say £500k but had it as part security against a loan of £1m, I'd very happily accept your offer of £1 for the house and loan. In fact as it's you, you could have it for 50p!

Slightly more seriously, in addition to the mortgages/charges over the assets there are also the liabilities of the company to consider. We know that we're at least 2 months behind on the rent (£200k for starters) and I don't think you have to be too cynical to wonder if we're fully up to date with PAYE and VAT payments.

Anyway as you obviously think the club is a valuable company, I'd love to have a chat with you about these Nigerian oil shares I could offer you...........

I didn't get the impression that Hoffman was willing to take on SISU's liabilities as part of the deal, but I may be wrong in that.

DazzleTommyDazzle · May 22, 2012

lordsummerisle said:
Both ridiculous, though I understand the Sisu bid also took on the debts of the club at the time, which even taking player values into account would have still been considerable.

Don't believe that Hoffman's bid was willing to underwrite any losses Sisu had accrued(though as a phantom bid, nobody really knows), and a pound a ridiculous sum , unless Juke went for 50p and Turner 25p, which not beyond the realms of possibility.

I'm not sure if the full details have ever been published, but my understanding was that SISU would have taken on the "normal trading creditors" but didn't take on the Directors' loans, instead having a contingency agreement on them - i.e. we pay them (or some part of them) if we get to the Premier League within x years.

My understanding was that the Hoffman proposal was along similar lines i.e. a payment on SISU's loans only if promotion was achieved within a defined period.

Happy to be corrected on either if anyone has concrete information.

lordsummerisle · May 22, 2012

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
I'm not sure if the full details have ever been published, but my understanding was that SISU would have taken on the "normal trading creditors" but didn't take on the Directors' loans, instead having a contingency agreement on them - i.e. we pay them (or some part of them) if we get to the Premier League within x years.

My understanding was that the Hoffman proposal was along similar lines i.e. a payment on SISU's loans only if promotion was achieved within a defined period.

Happy to be corrected on either if anyone has concrete information.

Does ring a bell, to be honest I wouldn't be too keen on the jam tomorrow scenario myself.

Nonleagueherewecome · May 22, 2012

covross said:
I do wonder what could of been if Sam Allardyce was not a director of CUJU8. Hopefully Hoffman gets it right this time. pusb

It wasn't that, it was the deliberate outing of Ken Bruce by The Orange Fool.

Godiva · May 22, 2012

rob9872 said:
... and there was never an option mentioned to have SISU removed, could last season have been different?

We know about wanting SISU out and all the lies that have been fed to us, but if Hoffman had kept quiet and not offered false hope early on last year, would the protests have surfaced at all? Do you think that affected how SISU treated/financed us and do you think if there were no distractions of such nature, we would have gained any extra points that may have got us over the other side of the relegation line?

I'm not suggesting that's the case but equally I can't see any good or positive news that has come out of any proposed takeover stories by Him, Keys or anyoneone else. If anything its been divisive amongst supporters at a time when we whould be together.

This is what I wrote on the 13th of August last year when the sisu out protests started on this board:

Godiva said:
I am getting a little bit upset now.

So Hoffman is your solution -
How much money will he invest himself?
Will he do better than when he was on the board last?
Will new investors ask for a return of their investment?
Will new investors be happy with the constant overspending?
Will new investors place their investments as loans?
Will new investors ask for interst on their loans?
Will new investors give AT millions to splash on new players?
Will you guarantee any new players bought will be an instant success?
Will upping the wage bill mean nothing towards the new fair finance rules?
Will amortization of players bought and agents fee mean nothing towards the current losses and the new regulation?

Do you know for sure new investors will buy the stadium?
Do you know for sure anything will change for the better with new investors?

Do you think protesting will actual scare the owners to take a hit and leave in the dark of the night?
Do you think SISU don't care about the investment they have made on behalf of the rich people who have actually deposited the money?
Do you think protests will not influence the players performances?
Do you think there might be just a tiny difference in the players minds if you scream their support or scream SISU out?

dick turpin · May 23, 2012

Do you think protests will not influence the players performances?
Why should a protest aimed at THE BOARD effect professional players performance?
IMO they know as well as we do that SISU have done us all over!! and its not aimed at David Bell or A.N.Other
So in answer NO
Do you think there might be just a tiny difference in the players minds if you scream their support or scream SISU out?
Same as above if its not aimed at them im sure they do not care,they may be glad to hear ANY kind of NOISE at the Ricoh

Godiva · May 23, 2012

dick turpin said:
Do you think protests will not influence the players performances?
Why should a protest aimed at THE BOARD effect professional players performance?
IMO they know as well as we do that SISU have done us all over!! and its not aimed at David Bell or A.N.Other
So in answer NO
Do you think there might be just a tiny difference in the players minds if you scream their support or scream SISU out?
Same as above if its not aimed at them im sure they do not care,they may be glad to hear ANY kind of NOISE at the Ricoh

You're employed by a company that is in conflict with it's customers. Some customers are protesting with banners and chants right outside your window. You read their complaints on facebook, twitter and in the local paper. The conflict even get a bit of airtime on national TV.
Don't you think you get just a little bit distracted? Even lose a bit of enthusiasm for the company? Lose a bit of effenciency and focus?

Of course the players were effected, and even if they are professionels, losing 5% focus and determination mean they miss a tackle, don't see the right pass, don't run the extra yards.
In a tight league that is surely the difference between a comfortable mid-table position and relegation.

Chipfat · May 23, 2012

The squad was never deep enough or had enough quality at any time during the season to stay up, the writing was on the wall from day 1.. Dont lets get carried away or blame fans, protests or bad publicity for our demise, the KD, PC are the ones you need to look at. Also i think your giving yourself abit too much credit,,,, the players care more about losing a top goalscorer than losing a pissed off fan who writes on twitter or post on a fans forum......

Godiva · May 23, 2012

Chipfat said:
The squad was never deep enough or had enough quality at any time during the season to stay up, the writing was on the wall from day 1.. Dont lets get carried away or blame fans, protests or bad publicity for our demise, the KD, PC are the ones you need to look at. Also i think your giving yourself abit too much credit,,,, the players care more about losing a top goalscorer than losing a pissed off fan who writes on twitter or post on a fans forum......

Maybe I give myself too much credit ... or maybe I simply accept I carry some of the responsibility while I accept there were many other factors.

theprince · May 23, 2012

All this has mushroomed and expanded since the Chinese consortiumn article two weeks ago, ask yourselves why

Regis87 · May 23, 2012

Don't know , so go on then why ?

If Hoffman wasn't heading up a failed consortium .... (2 Viewers)

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