If SISU are going to stay... (1 Viewer)

skybluetony176 · Jun 10, 2016

...for me they are going to have to do one of two things for a start. Either come clean and confirm that it is third party litigation and that they are on a ship they are not the captain of and therefore can't stop it OR drop the litigation.

Here's why.

If they come clean about the third party litigation we as fan can unite, that word again unite, against wasps and say to them "look, our owners have set us on a path that they have no controll over and it's not fair on the club, it's fans and the wider Coventry community that you won't negotiate with CCFC until the litigation stops as that is simply not an option".

If it isn't third party litigation and they drop it aside from the fact that the vast majority of fans want them to drop it anyway it will call Wasps bluff. They'll have to re-enter negotiations with CCFC.

Either of these two actions will start the club moving forward. If they don't then to coin a phrase we still aren't at the bottom of the cycle yet.

Nick · Jun 10, 2016

Agree, it should be cards on the table.

I still don't think it would be enough for some though.

Astute · Jun 10, 2016

I would have more faith in what Wasps have said if they didn't stop negotiations half way through and came to an agreement on all points and then said to SISU that everything would be signed as soon as legal actions stopped.

skybluetony176 · Jun 10, 2016

Nick said:
Agree, it should be cards on the table.

I still don't think it would be enough for some though.

The only thing for sure Nick is we can't unite behind BS. As we're seeing first hand on this very forum.

Like you say it's cards on the table time. I would add it's cards on the table time or do one. Personally unless SISU start playing with a straight bat I'd be quite happy to start chanting SISU out at games. Something I personally haven't done since we returned from Sixfields. I suspect I won't be alone either.

Nick · Jun 10, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
The only thing for sure Nick is we can't unite behind BS. As we're seeing first hand on this very forum.

Like you say it's cards on the table time. I would add it's cards on the table time or do one. Personally unless SISU start playing with a straight bat I'd be quite happy to start chanting SISU out at games. Something I personally haven't done since we returned frm Sixfields. I suspect I won't be alone either.

I think it's too late them trying to play with a straight bat when they are up against 3 or 4 others all using a very crooked one.

How about instead of people shouting about anybody being out,p everybody shouts something in favour of CCFC. That is something that everybody can agree on.

Astute · Jun 10, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Personally unless SISU start playing with a straight bat I'd be quite happy to start chanting SISU out at games.

And give everyone else an easy time?

skybluetony176 · Jun 10, 2016

Nick said:
I think it's too late them trying to play with a straight bat when they are up against 3 or 4 others all using a very crooked one.

To be blunt Nick it doesn't matter what others do. If SISU want the fans to unite and back them they are going to have to start playing with a straight bat. It simply isn't going to happen any other way. Divide and conquer they say. Why is SISU contributing to the divide with constant BS? Ifthey can't play with a straight bat we can't unite, if we can't unite they may as do one. It might already be to late but coming clean is the only way they can get backing of the fans now as I see it.

If it is third party litigation and they have no control and they admit this I'll happily jump on Wasps to start negotiating again despite what I think of our owners. But if our owners keep trying to pull the wool over my eyes fuck em. They're on their own.

stevefloyd · Jun 10, 2016

Bunch of bullies and its backfired now it seems that CCC are turning the heads of other parties to apply the screw a little tighter

skybluetony176 · Jun 10, 2016

Astute said:
And give everyone else an easy time?

They're already giving everyone else an easy time. No one trusts or believe anything SISU have to say including and most importantly the one group of people who could actually give them some backing if the truth was out, CCFC fans. The web that is now harming SISU has been spun by SISU.

Nick · Jun 10, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
To be blunt Nick it doesn't matter what others do. If SISU want the fans to unite and back them they are going to have to start playing with a straight bat. It simply isn't going to happen any other way. Divide and conquer they say. Why is it SISU contributing to the divide with constant BS? Ifthey can't play with a straight bat we can't unite, if we can't unite they may as do one. It might already be to late but coming clean is the only way they can get backing of the fans now as I see it.

If it is third party litigation and they have no control and they admit this I'll happily jump on Wasps to start negotiating again despite what I think of our owners. But if our owners keep trying to pull the wool over my eyes fuck em. They're on their own.

I agree that they should be straight, but I don;t think it will make much difference to people now. They come clean and say sorry, then what? Yeah a couple of people would probably start to get behind SISU, I think more people would say "oh look at sisu, begging the fans" and gloat to be honest.

People don't need to unite with SISU, they need to unite with and for CCFC.

The litigation dropping demands is just a front isn't it? There is no reason it should stop wasps negotiating anything.

skybluetony176 · Jun 10, 2016

Nick said:
I agree that they should be straight, but I don;t think it will make much difference to people now. They come clean and say sorry, then what? Yeah a couple of people would probably start to get behind SISU, I think more people would say "oh look at sisu, begging the fans" and gloat to be honest.

People don't need to unite with SISU, they need to unite with and for CCFC.

The litigation dropping demands is just a front isn't it? There is no reason it should stop wasps negotiating anything.

You may be right Nick, a lot of water has gone under the bridge but doing the same things expecting different results is madness and coming straight on a few things may be SISU's best chance.

Unfortuantly SISU and CCFC are entwined, it's not always easy to seperate the two and constant BS doesn't help that.

I would say that the dropping litigation demand is SISU being out SISUed. I now think that the third party litigation thing is most likely. I don't know for sure but I think it's likely.

Nick · Jun 10, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
You may be right Nick, a lot of water has gone under the bridge but doing the same things expecting different results is madness and coming straight on a few things may be SISU's best chance.

Unfortuantly SISU and CCFC are entwined, it's not always easy to seperate the two and constant BS doesn't help that.

I would say that the dropping litigation demand is SISU being out SISUed. I now think that the third party litigation thing is most likely. I don't know for sure but I think it's likely.

Do people really find it that hard to seperate? For instance going to a match on a Saturday to cheer on the team you have supported for ever, the badge you have always known etc. That isn't SISU is it? That is what people should back.

skybluetony176 · Jun 10, 2016

Nick said:
Do people really find it that hard to seperate? For instance going to a match on a Saturday to cheer on the team you have supported for ever, the badge you have always known etc. That isn't SISU is it? That is what people should back.

The two are intrinsically linked. What one does effects the other. Especially what SISU does.

Nick · Jun 10, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
The two are intrinsically linked. What one does effects the other. Especially what SISU does.

Yes, and what Wasps, the Council and the Higgs do also effect the club. Owners or not.

The whole PR game seems to work perfectly, Wasps don't want to do something and they just hide behind the "It is SISU" or "it's because of legals".

"Yeah, I am just going to rock up and do what the hell we want, it's SISU innit".

Every time a statement or something comes out that makes other parties look bad, you can almost guess the statements that are going to come out at about 5 that day. Effectively, "it is sisus fault". You then see people who were a bit angry at wasps forget that, and get even angrier at sisu.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Jun 10, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
...for me they are going to have to do one of two things for a start. Either come clean and confirm that it is third party litigation and that they are on a ship they are not the captain of and therefore can't stop it OR drop the litigation.

Here's why.

If they come clean about the third party litigation we as fan can unite, that word again unite, against wasps and say to them "look, our owners have set us on a path that they have no controll over and it's not fair on the club, it's fans and the wider Coventry community that you won't negotiate with CCFC until the litigation stops as that is simply not an option".

If it isn't third party litigation and they drop it aside from the fact that the vast majority of fans want them to drop it anyway it will call Wasps bluff. They'll have to re-enter negotiations with CCFC.

Either of these two actions will start the club moving forward. If they don't then to coin a phrase we still aren't at the bottom of the cycle yet.

Even if you're first point is true it won't change a lot of opinions and I doubt it will change wasps or CCC stance. At the moment the football club has nothing to do with the legal action and no one working for the club can stop it, so not a whole lot different to what you are saying.

Covstu · Jun 10, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
To be blunt Nick it doesn't matter what others do. If SISU want the fans to unite and back them they are going to have to start playing with a straight bat. It simply isn't going to happen any other way. Divide and conquer they say. Why is SISU contributing to the divide with constant BS? Ifthey can't play with a straight bat we can't unite, if we can't unite they may as do one. It might already be to late but coming clean is the only way they can get backing of the fans now as I see it.

If it is third party litigation and they have no control and they admit this I'll happily jump on Wasps to start negotiating again despite what I think of our owners. But if our owners keep trying to pull the wool over my eyes fuck em. They're on their own.

I totally agree but would we even trust what they say even if they were playing it with a Straight bat? everyone would look for conspiracies, end games and ulterior motives. I don't think there is anything that SISU can do to fully gain the trust of the fans apart from deliver a strong and stable team on the pitch.

italiahorse · Jun 10, 2016

CCFC said:
Even if you're first point is true it won't change a lot of opinions and I doubt it will change wasps or CCC stance. At the moment the football club has nothing to do with the legal action and no one working for the club can stop it, so not a whole lot different to what you are saying.

The Club is named on the legal documents for JR1.
We are pretty certain that Wasps are named on the JR2 documentation because that actual challenges the CCC/Wasps deal.
How can any long term deal be completed (17 points?) while they are going on. Surely some of the points will be compromised for both parties because of the legals?
We just need to hope they are completed in the next 2 years before the next deal which will be one that Wasps have 100% say on.
The academy is priority at this point in time and all parties need to be pushed together.
What's the latest on this ?

Astute · Jun 10, 2016

italiahorse said:
The Club is named on the legal documents for JR1.
We are pretty certain that Wasps are named on the JR2 documentation because that actual challenges the CCC/Wasps deal.
How can any long term deal be completed (17 points?) while they are going on. Surely some of the points will be compromised for both parties because of the legals?
We just need to hope they are completed in the next 2 years before the next deal which will be one that Wasps have 100% say on.
The academy is priority at this point in time and all parties need to be pushed together.
What's the latest on this ?

And why should SISU stop actions just because there is a chance of coming to an agreement on us staying at the Ricoh long term?

italiahorse · Jun 10, 2016

Covstu said:
I totally agree but would we even trust what they say even if they were playing it with a Straight bat? everyone would look for conspiracies, end games and ulterior motives. I don't think there is anything that SISU can do to fully gain the trust of the fans apart from deliver a strong and stable team on the pitch.

I think Sisu are fielding at the moment not batting.
The other team is just playing through the innings with a straight bat the size of a front door.
It's a waiting game but we do need the season to start to take our minds away from this nonsense.

Astute · Jun 10, 2016

italiahorse said:
I think Sisu are fielding at the moment not batting.
The other team is just playing through the innings with a straight bat the size of a front door.
It's a waiting game but we do need the season to start to take our minds away from this nonsense.

We need to know that our football club has a future. And as things stand we don't.

italiahorse · Jun 10, 2016

Astute said:
And why should SISU stop actions just because there is a chance of coming to an agreement on us staying at the Ricoh long term?

Who is saying stop ?
I think everybody is saying that the legals need to be out the way first and then we can continue.
If Sisu want to carry on then it just delays the talks.

Ian1779 · Jun 10, 2016

italiahorse said:
The Club is named on the legal documents for JR1.
We are pretty certain that Wasps are named on the JR2 documentation because that actual challenges the CCC/Wasps deal.
How can any long term deal be completed (17 points?) while they are going on. Surely some of the points will be compromised for both parties because of the legals?
We just need to hope they are completed in the next 2 years before the next deal which will be one that Wasps have 100% say on.
The academy is priority at this point in time and all parties need to be pushed together.
What's the latest on this ?

I actually wish they would drop JR1 and go straight for JR2..

I think a lot of us would like to see the truth behind that deal.

Astute · Jun 10, 2016

italiahorse said:
Who is saying stop ?
I think everybody is saying that the legals need to be out the way first and then we can continue.
If Sisu want to carry on then it just delays the talks.

So legal action being out of the way isn't legal action stopping?

rupert_bear · Jun 10, 2016

Sisu cannot be and I don't believe ever will be trusted. I wouldn't trust them if they promised the world in front of Mother Theresa. I hope, pray and implore wasps, ccc and whoever else might be in volved stay rigid, stay firm and go for the juggler good and proper.

chiefdave · Jun 10, 2016

italiahorse said:
We are pretty certain that Wasps are named on the JR2 documentation because that actual challenges the CCC/Wasps deal.

They might be named but what chance is there, in the unlikely event SISU win, of Wasps being impacted? The deal can't be unwound now. Any compensation or other penalty will be for CCC to deal with.

italiahorse said:
How can any long term deal be completed (17 points?) while they are going on.

Why not? Its not particularly unusual for 2 parties working together while having ongoing legal action. Apple and Samsung have over 50 lawsuits in progress, with damages in the billions, yet still work together. Samsung is a parts supplier for Apple.

Astute · Jun 10, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Sisu cannot be and I don't believe ever will be trusted. I wouldn't trust them if they promised the world in front of Mother Theresa. I hope, pray and implore wasps, ccc and whoever else might be in volved stay rigid, stay firm and go for the juggler good and proper.

I know it is more like a circus but what has the poor juggler done?

italiahorse · Jun 10, 2016

Astute said:
We need to know that our football club has a future. And as things stand we don't.

The stadium agreement is on hold until the legals are complete. We will have to wait.
I am not 100% sure whether the academy can really be accommodated in Wasps facilities so that needs to be clarified.
I am still unsure where this bloody swimming pool will be, what the timing is and why it
All I do know is that talks can continue at the Higgs and I believe that all parties can co exist there.

Astute · Jun 10, 2016

italiahorse said:
The stadium agreement is on hold until the legals are complete. We will have to wait.
I am not 100% sure whether the academy can really be accommodated in Wasps facilities so that needs to be clarified.
I am still unsure where this bloody swimming pool will be, what the timing is and why it
All I do know is that talks can continue at the Higgs and I believe that all parties can co exist there.

Believing something can happen and admitting the chances are very low are two totally different things.

italiahorse · Jun 10, 2016

chiefdave said:
They might be named but what chance is there, in the unlikely event SISU win, of Wasps being impacted? The deal can't be unwound now. Any compensation or other penalty will be for CCC to deal with

Why not? Its not particularly unusual for 2 parties working together while having ongoing legal action. Apple and Samsung have over 50 lawsuits in progress, with damages in the billions, yet still work together. Samsung is a parts supplier for Apple.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Sisu/CCFC are saying the CCC/Wasps deal was wrong in JR2.
Do they want it overturned ?

Apple / Samsung have mutual benefits. CCFC have nothing that Wasps want (at the moment). Slight difference.

italiahorse · Jun 10, 2016

Astute said:
Believing something can happen and admitting the chances are very low are two totally different things.

No chance at all, if one party wants to discuss in person and the other wants the deal in writing before they discuss it ?

chiefdave · Jun 10, 2016

italiahorse said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but Sisu/CCFC are saying the CCC/Wasps deal was wrong in JR2.
Do they want it overturned ?

I would imagine they will be saying the manner in which CCC conducted the sale was incorrect and did not achieve best value for taxpayers. They could also argue that the sale is below market price therefore impacting negatively on them as a private sector company.

Even if they win hands down is it even possible for it impact in any way Wasps ownership of ACL?

torchomatic · Jun 10, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Sisu cannot be and I don't believe ever will be trusted. I wouldn't trust them if they promised the world in front of Mother Theresa. I hope, pray and implore wasps, ccc and whoever else might be in volved stay rigid, stay firm and go for the juggler good and proper.

I'm interested to hear more about the juggler. I'll just ignore the rest of the anti-CCFC nonsense for now.

Nick · Jun 10, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Sisu cannot be and I don't believe ever will be trusted. I wouldn't trust them if they promised the world in front of Mother Theresa. I hope, pray and implore wasps, ccc and whoever else might be in volved stay rigid, stay firm and go for the juggler good and proper.

Im just hoping they CCC bring out a nice shirt I can buy to go and watch council meetings when CCFC are completely destroyed.

Covstu · Jun 10, 2016

torchomatic said:
I'm interested to hear more about the juggler. I'll just ignore the rest of the anti-CCFC nonsense for now.

there are a few clowns around at the moment.....

italiahorse · Jun 10, 2016

chiefdave said:
I would imagine they will be saying the manner in which CCC conducted the sale was incorrect and did not achieve best value for taxpayers. They could also argue that the sale is below market price therefore impacting negatively on them as a private sector company.

Even if they win hands down is it even possible for it impact in any way Wasps ownership of ACL?

Not directly, but dragging Wasps name through the courts will have impact on sponsorship etc.

If SISU are going to stay... (1 Viewer)

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency