i'm a better fan than you! (1 Viewer)

Gray · Mar 7, 2012

there sometimes appears a thread or a comment on here where someone states that people are not proper fans/or bad fans etc etc.....

but what makes you coventrys best fan?

I am Coventry City's best fan Because when i was about 13 i offered to mow Peter Ndlovus garden for a school project...HE DECLINED!!!!!...i cried for a week from the denial of a hero.........how ever i've still gone on to spend the next 20 years generally still crying following the sky blues

take a bow ME Coventrys greatest ever supporter

Otis · Mar 7, 2012

I'm one of Coventry's worst fans because I am a realist.

torchomatic · Mar 7, 2012

I never think so and so fan it better than so and so. However, I do get annoyed when I read stuff like "yes, we beat Leeds, but..." But what? We beat 'em, that's all that matters. I wish people would stop making excuses when we do win.

Donnie Brasco · Mar 7, 2012

I'm Covs best fan because I believe we are down already, I'm a member of Coventry Zulu Hooligan squad and I think Sammy Clingan is a gift from god.

Otis · Mar 7, 2012

torchomatic said:
I never think so and so fan it better than so and so. However, I do get annoyed when I read stuff like "yes, we beat Leeds, but..." But what? We beat 'em, that's all that matters. I wish people would stop making excuses when we do win.

I see nothing wrong whatsoever with saying "We beat Leeds but their fans said it was by far and away their worst performance of the seaosn."

What on earth is wrong with that? :thinking about:

torchomatic · Mar 7, 2012

And if their fans said we should all jump of a cliff....

It happens after every win, always the same few posters. We beat Middlesborough, but they had a couple of players sent off. We beat Leeds, but it was with two penalties, etc, etc. I don't know if it's because we get beat so often that people just can't be arsed to be pleased. Who knows.

Otis · Mar 7, 2012

Doesn't happen after every win.

It is usually invariably been that although we have deserved to win we haven't particularly played well.

Would you want people to not mention the fact that Middlesborough had a player sent off then? Just pretend it never happened perhaps. :thinking about:

torchomatic · Mar 7, 2012

I think it does happen every win. No, of course people should mention it, but don't use it as an excuse. You could look at every result and say the same. I know we won the Cup but really if it wasn't for the ball striking Gary Mabbutt and going over the hand of Ray Clemence in a perfect arc just out of reach then we wouldn't have got the victory. History says we won 3-2. That's all I care about. Does anyone really care about the huge dollop of luck? Same with Leeds, same with Middlesborough, same with Barnsley. The points are on the board.

Otis · Mar 7, 2012

Yes, of course they are, but you are misisng the point of people's comments.

We play well and win and it's usually all plaudits.

We don't play too well, but deserve to win, then yes we have the points on the board, but the question then is of course, if we play like that every week will we continue to win.

It's all very simple. We play well and win then we say 'play like that every week and we will win a lot more games than we lose.' Don't play so well, or the opposition play poorly and then you are wondering if we continue in that same vein is the same result as likely.

As I say, it's all very simple and makes perfect sense.

You just watch what happens if we play really well and win and then see how much analayis there is of any negatives. Very little, if any.

covcity4life · Mar 7, 2012

torchomatic said:
I never think so and so fan it better than so and so. However, I do get annoyed when I read stuff like "yes, we beat Leeds, but..." But what? We beat 'em, that's all that matters. I wish people would stop making excuses when we do win.

you are very dumb.

arsenal beat ac milan 3-0 BUT ddint go through because of a shambolic first leg

chelsea beat birmingham 2-0 BUT can be dissapointed it went to a replay in the first place as it may affect fitness for the league run in

Di Matteo won his first game in charge BUT may not be the man to lead chelsea in the future

lots of buts in football,glad i could educate you.

Covcity4life.imp:

_brian_ · Mar 7, 2012

covcity4life said:
you are very dumb.

arsenal beat ac milan 3-0 BUT ddint go through because of a shambolic first leg

chelsea beat birmingham 2-0 BUT can be dissapointed it went to a replay in the first place as it may affect fitness for the league run in

Di Matteo won his first game in charge BUT may not be the man to lead chelsea in the future

lots of buts in football,glad i could educate you.

Covcity4life.imp:

You're a 'butt' on this forum!!! LOL! Only joking mate! Couldn't resist!

covcity4life · Mar 7, 2012

_brian_ said:
You're a 'butt' on this forum!!! LOL! Only joking mate! Couldn't resist!

i was gonna make the same joke in my post BUT i resisted

Sky Blue Sheepy · Mar 7, 2012

I can kinda see what Torch means, there can be such extreme views of our relegation when we lose, but never the other way round when we win. Usually fair assessments but when the team can be so badly slated when we lose, I personally just want to talk them up when they win.

Gaz · Mar 7, 2012

Its a sad fact, but we do have a minority of fans who just like to have a moan, even if we get a win.

covcity4life · Mar 7, 2012

Sky Blue Sheepy said:
I can kinda see what Torch means, there can be such extreme views of our relegation when we lose, but never the other way round when we win. Usually fair assessments but when the team can be so badly slated when we lose, I personally just want to talk them up when they win.

how can you say that? do you think the performance evaluation of 0-0 with barnsley would be the same as what it ended up being for the actual victory?

one last min goal led to NO discussion of what was an averange performance.

its not called being negative,its jsut a case of not being blind and highlighting problems that need to be rectified

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Mar 7, 2012

covcity4life said:
its not called being negative,its jsut a case of not being blind and highlighting problems that need to be rectified

But the problem many of us have is when the blame is laid firmly at Thorn's door. I am sorry, but after every loss, there are some who wholly and exclusively blame Thorn. And when one calls for an issue to be rectified - which is an entirely understandable emotion - how can any rectification take place with such scant resources to effect change for the better?

CUS Wyken · Mar 7, 2012

torchomatic said:
I never think so and so fan it better than so and so. However, I do get annoyed when I read stuff like "yes, we beat Leeds, but..." But what? We beat 'em, that's all that matters. I wish people would stop making excuses when we do win.

Well same could be said when we draw or lose. I've read comments like 'I know its only a draw BUT we played and could have had won near the end" or "We lost but if only xxxxx took that chance after 5 minutes" Whats the difference?

We've been lucky in some games and unlucky in others. Thats football

ICHAN · Mar 7, 2012

People will scrutinise a loss more than a win (we lose more than we win, so that's why there is more of it) because there is more to scrutanise with a lose.

Nobody want's us to lose or get relegated but we do lose a lot of games and relegation is getting harder to get out of the longer we are down there.

We can say other teams are down there and the restof it and I can see both sides of the argument.

1 side it is not over until it is mathmatically certain we are down very true.

The other side of the coin is a lot more in depth discussion wise, other teams have games in hand, they have started showing more of a fighting spirit home and away and picking points up on their travels, there squads have been improved, they have more experianced players and manager.

We have a scout as manager (that is what we have no getting away from that) where as other teams around us have a more experianced man in charge, we can not win away from home (and so each home game becomes six point's in effect and the pressure will mount), we have some inexperianced players and the more experianced player's are not pulling their weight and leading by example, the fighting spirit seems to be lacking that we have always shown as a team, whenever confronted with this situation in the past, we have shown nothing really all season, to suggest that we as a team will suddenly start getting the points needed, through the desire of the whole club, tactically or by any other means to get out of the mess, and that's why I think people are already prepared for what is looking inevitable

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Mar 7, 2012

Great deal of merit in what you offer there ICHAN. I may be wrong, but I see the problem more as the lack of experienced players as the manager.

Don't get me wrong, as I've stated on here many times previously, I don't think Thorn is truly up to the job. He may be one day, as managers such as Paul Lambert had a worse win-ratio in their first managerial roles, but he's not there right now. He's in charge as it was the cheapest and easiest option to SISU. He was no better a manager last year, when he did rather better, but at that point we had a sprinkling of quality in the side we don't possess now.

As I tried to explain yesterday, in these tight relegation battles, our young and experienced players (and we are reliant on more of these players, more often than any other team in this league) will look about the pitch. Last year, they'd have seen King and had confidence we'd nick a goal, see Westwood and have a level of confidence we'd keep a clean sheet, see Gunnarsson - okay a youngish player, but with 25 international caps - they'd see a colossus in Turner (much castigated on this site at the time, but proven of his true worth since), they's perhaps see Jutkiewitz and know that at times he'd hold the ball up and chase the channels to give them a breather. In précis, they'd have a level of security drawn from the presence of the players surrounding them.

It's this self-same attitude of psychological fortitude that's needed away from home.

When the players look around the pitch now. What do they see, and from where can confidence be drawn?

ICHAN · Mar 7, 2012

Nowhere MMM the more experianced players should be leading the way, Sheff should be dying for the cause and leading from the front as should the more experianced players, so giving the less experianced self belief and work as a unit to fight out of this.

As you say last year their was King etc to lead with passion and experiance.

In fighting relegation years gone by the team had one thing going for them that always gave you confidance and that was true passion and self beleive that they could do it, unfortunatly this year it seems to have gone and been replaced with a self defetism attitude that they can not be arsed anymore and the fight has gone throughout the club.

This I think has also got into the fans (bear with me before ripping apart) due to the lack of progress regarding player's, the manager (like him or not,the divide is their) the owners, takeover yes or no, is it happening is it not happening, these things have been hanging over the club all season and no one appears to know what is happening regarding the club, it is as though it's in a stationary warp where nothing is happening, and until something happens it will just stay in limbo so to speak.

covcity4life · Mar 7, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
But the problem many of us have is when the blame is laid firmly at Thorn's door. I am sorry, but after every loss, there are some who wholly and exclusively blame Thorn. And when one calls for an issue to be rectified - which is an entirely understandable emotion - how can any rectification take place with such scant resources to effect change for the better?

but you are pretty much saying its 100% sisus fault

their are other clubs on a strict budget,they are not all getting relegated,a good manager can work wonders

its not 100% thorns fault
its not 100% sisu fault

why cant we find any common ground?

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Mar 7, 2012

covcity4life said:
but you are pretty much saying its 100% sisus fault

Well, within the context that they've delivered us a bottom-three club level of investment in the league and we've ended up in a bottom three position; yes. Within the context that they've appointed an unproven and inexperienced coach as he's cheap and therefore the chances of him being able to 'work wonders' is less liable; yes.

They have established the parameters within we're operating, so they're ultimately culpable; yes

Gray · Mar 7, 2012

jesus this was supposed to be a light hearted thread:facepalm:

Colonel Mustard · Mar 7, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Well, within the context that they've delivered us a bottom-three club level of investment in the league and we've ended up in a bottom three position; yes. Within the context that they've appointed an unproven and inexperienced coach as he's cheap and therefore the chances of him being able to 'work wonders' is less liable; yes.

They have established the parameters within we're operating, so they're ultimately culpable; yes

There's a long charge sheet against SISU, which most certainly includes the hiring/continued employment of AT.

However, I would suggest that the investment issue is not wholly their fault. There's a case to be made that fan turnout is linked to investment, and to do otherwise would be putting the cart before the horse; additionally, one may lay some blame at the authorities that be for not sufficiently punishing clubs who overstretch their finances, leaving clubs like CCFC being penalised for not stacking up the debt. Thoughts?

kg82 · Mar 7, 2012

Otis said:
I'm one of Coventry's worst fans because I am a realist.

I'm confused as to how predicting the future is now regarded as being a realist? We have as much chance of staying up as going down - that's being a realist.

Colonel Mustard · Mar 7, 2012

kg82 said:
I'm confused as to how predicting the future is now regarded as being a realist? We have as much chance of staying up as going down - that's being a realist.

Considering that we are three points deep in the relegation zone and have played 1-2 games more than our three closest competitors, then no, we do not have as much chance of staying up as going down. That much is obvious.

Being a realist is "the attitude or practice of accepting a situation as it is and being prepared to deal with it accordingly". When you assess our away form, our consistency over the season, the likelihood of continuing our "income stream" (home wins), remaining fixtures etc etc., then you cannot be left believing that we stand a legitimate chance of staying up. That's not being negative, it is being exactly realistic.

kg82 · Mar 7, 2012

You're taking form over the whole season whereas our form, at home, has picked up considerably in the last 7-8 games and that HAS given us a chance of staying up. Surely one persons perception of being realistic can be different to anothers, in which case I'd stand by my statement above. Statements that I do not find realistic are ones such as "well I think that's just about it from us", as if that's how I'm now meant to feel and anyone who doesn't agree is not being realistic/delusional/living in cloud cuckoo land.

curlyc_ · Mar 7, 2012

I maybe one of the worst fans because i buy cheap tickets, and amongst the season ticket holders i go up with, i am personally responsible for the signing of Roy O'Donovan.

Apologies to all City fans good, bad and ugly......

PUSB

Colonel Mustard · Mar 7, 2012

kg82 said:
You're taking form over the whole season whereas our form, at home, has picked up considerably in the last 7-8 games and that HAS given us a chance of staying up.

They are not exclusive to one another. That home form has been tempered by atrocious away form. The argument I have been making for some weeks is that the home form is more likely to dip before the away form is likely to spike, bringing us back to equilibrium. Having accumulated three away points all season, that has to be the realistic assessment. And, sure enough, we got a home draw against Palace...

Surely one persons perception of being realistic can be different to anothers

That is true, but it doesn't mean they are of equal weight.

Statements that I do not find realistic are ones such as "well I think that's just about it from us", as if that's how I'm now meant to feel and anyone who doesn't agree is not being realistic/delusional/living in cloud cuckoo land.

There is a distinction to be made between realism and possibilities. It is possible for CCFC to survive, of course, but there is painfully little evidence or reason to believe that they will. There is unquestionably some delusion going on when people wilfully ignore the numbers, the track record, the odds; but it is an honourable ignorance - I have no criticism of hope.

kg82 · Mar 7, 2012

Colonel Mustard said:
They are not exclusive to one another. That home form has been tempered by atrocious away form. The argument I have been making for some weeks is that the home form is more likely to dip before the away form is likely to spike, bringing us back to equilibrium. Having accumulated three away points all season, that has to be the realistic assessment. And, sure enough, we got a home draw against Palace...

That is true, but it doesn't mean they are of equal weight.

There is a distinction to be made between realism and possibilities. It is possible for CCFC to survive, of course, but there is painfully little evidence or reason to believe that they will. There is unquestionably some delusion going on when people wilfully ignore the numbers, the track record, the odds; but it is an honourable ignorance - I have no criticism of hope.

Christ. Do you know what, whatever. I'm sick and tired of having to argue stupid things like this about what I (that's MEEEE, not you) find realistic, what I don't like stuffed down my throat as beig realistic and most of all, arguing with people who like to argue just for the sake of it and then call it debating when the debate was exhausted after the first round of "debating".

Colonel Mustard · Mar 7, 2012

kg82 said:
Christ. Do you know what, whatever. I'm sick and tired of having to argue stupid things like this about what I (that's MEEEE, not you) find realistic, what I don't like stuffed down my throat as beig realistic and most of all, arguing with people who like to argue just for the sake of it and then call it debating when the debate was exhausted after the first round of "debating".

Textbook reaction.

kg82 · Mar 7, 2012

Colonel Mustard said:
Textbook reaction.

Right, this is the "textbook reaction" because you think I think I'm wrong? Actually, it's because I can't be bothered to argue anymore with someone who the initial comment was not aimed at anyway but was so narcissistic enough to join in and dismiss my realistic comment as wrong (what a surprise) and then what really does my head in is this "textbook reaction" as if you're some all knowing psychology professor and this is exactly what you expected. And do you know the complete irony of it, your reply was exactly what I was expecting.

torchomatic · Mar 7, 2012

Ah, the old "I'm not sure what to say so I'll write a cutting remark and hope that's the end of it" line. Nice one.

Colonel Mustard said:
Textbook reaction.

Colonel Mustard · Mar 7, 2012

torchomatic said:
Ah, the old "I'm not sure what to say so I'll write a cutting remark and hope that's the end of it" line. Nice one.

Yes, if you're referring to kg82. I engaged in discussion with him, answered all his points, and he worked himself into a lather when he was up against a wall. Textbook.

kg82 · Mar 7, 2012

Colonel Mustard said:
Yes, if you're referring to kg82. I engaged in discussion with him, answered all his points, and he worked himself into a lather when he was up against a wall. Textbook.

No I didn't. You were going through exactly the same things I'd just been talking about, like if you said it all one more time I'd be like "oh, well if you put it like that". Don't come on here and pretend you know what I'm like with comments such as "worked himself up". My response was done purely because I could not be bothered to go over exactly the same points time after time with someone who obviously just likes to "debate" everything.

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