In what scenario would SISU sell? (1 Viewer)

Ccfcisparks · Apr 7, 2022

Theres no incentive for them to sell at the moment. They are getting a good return on investment by having us sit in the championship.

Would us getting relegated force their hand or would they just restructure their investment portfolio and keep hold of us?

Seems at the moment unless a ridiculous unlikely offer came in they have a vice grip over us.

KenilworthSkyBlue · Apr 7, 2022

Relegation wouldn't do a thing to sway their hand. They'd simply adjust and adapt.

slowpoke · Apr 7, 2022

It needs a willing buyer and then money might talk.

skybluetony176 · Apr 7, 2022

Ccfcisparks said:
Theres no incentive for them to sell at the moment. They are getting a good return on investment by having us sit in the championship.

Would us getting relegated force their hand or would they just restructure their investment portfolio and keep hold of us?

Seems at the moment unless a ridiculous unlikely offer came in they have a vice grip over us.

I thinks the obvious question is in what scenario would anyone buy. Like you say it would take a ridiculous offer. Personally I think SISU think that the Wasps model is unsustainable and they’re probably right, so they’ll abide their time and see how that plays out with the bonds. I wouldn’t be at all surprised (just to be clear that’s I wouldn’t be surprised, I’m not in anyway suggesting it’s fact. Just in the scenario that should it happen I wouldn’t be at all surprised) that SISU have been snapping up Wasp bonds as the price was tumbling giving them a shoe in on what happens next and again I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they tried to use that shoe in to gain control of both Wasps and the CBS. It’s quite possible SISU could end up with the CBS and both a professional football team and Rugby team to put bums on seats pretty much all year around. At which point they’d seriously consider selling. I think once operation Premier league failed the focus turned to the arena and that hasn’t changed.

Gynnsthetonic · Apr 7, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
I thinks the obvious question is in what scenario would anyone buy. Like you say it would take a ridiculous offer. Personally I think SISU think that the Wasps model is unsustainable and they’re probably right, so they’ll abide their time and see how that plays out with the bonds. I wouldn’t be at all surprised (just to be clear that’s I wouldn’t be surprised, I’m not in anyway suggesting it’s fact. Just in the scenario that should it happen I wouldn’t be at all surprised) that SISU have been snapping up Wasp bonds as the price was tumbling giving them a shoe in on what happens next and again I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they tried to use that shoe in to gain control of both Wasps and the CBS. It’s quite possible SISU could end up with the CBS and both a professional football team and Rugby team to put bums on seats pretty much all year around. At which point they’d seriously consider selling. I think once operation Premier league failed the focus turned to the arena and that hasn’t changed.

Why would SISU buying bonds make them gain control of the stadium, they are not shares so what would they gain?

Liquid Gold · Apr 7, 2022

Is this 2012?

skybluetony176 · Apr 7, 2022

Gynnsthetonic said:
Why would SISU buying bonds make them gain control of the stadium, they are not shares so what would they gain?

It gives them a voice on what happens next. However Wasps want to settle the bonds unless the bonds are outright settled as per the terms of the bonds then bond holders have a say in what happens next. They can refuse solutions.

slowpoke · Apr 7, 2022

Haven’t our council still got some say or input on the stadium.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Apr 7, 2022

slowpoke said:
Haven’t our council still got some say or input on the stadium.

They still retain the freehold......but wasps lease has 242 years to run....

chiefdave · Apr 7, 2022

Money will make them sell. As much as they say the club is not for sale over and over again they will have a figure in mind and if a serious buyer came forward and was in that ballpark I'm certain there would be talks.

Gynnsthetonic · Apr 7, 2022

How much is someone buying Derby for, no ground in the deal either?

shmmeee · Apr 7, 2022

chiefdave said:
Money will make them sell. As much as they say the club is not for sale over and over again they will have a figure in mind and if a serious buyer came forward and was in that ballpark I'm certain there would be talks.

I worry the problem is no serious buyer would meet their distinctly unserious valuation.

Grendel · Apr 7, 2022

Gynnsthetonic said:
Why would SISU buying bonds make them gain control of the stadium, they are not shares so what would they gain?

I don’t actually think many bonds have been sold it’s the low bid price that people look at

wasps will refinance and the bonds will be repaid and frankly if they don’t it creates us some problems

KenilworthSkyBlue · Apr 7, 2022

shmmeee said:
I worry the problem is no serious buyer would meet their distinctly unserious valuation.

That's pretty much a given isn't it?

Which is why their strategy for the foreseeable will be to sell intangible assets (players) in order to pay back interest/loans.

The issue is it's a completely unsustainable strategy to run a football club as if you continue to sell your best players at this level relegation is an inevitability.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 7, 2022

Unless there is a big offer put in then I don't see SISU selling up any time soon. SISU are duty bound to consider any offer as part of managing their clients funds but unless it is substantial and largely upfront i think the reply would be pretty quick & negative.

In fact not struggling in the Championship will have added a premium in Joys mind I expect. The problem for a buyer is CCFC doesn't have any long term assets to help structure any deal, current climate would suggest a cash deal of tens of millions would be unlikely.

So long as they are not asking their investors to put money in then they will tell them to sit tight. SISU of course in just doing that will, as investment managers be earning a slice from their investors. So neither they nor their investors are struggling with owning CCFC

I have said for a long time I think they will restart the process they began in 2019 and begin funds extraction based on part of any major player sales, before they consider selling up and moving on (which they will in the end)

As for the wasps Bond refinancing, well the bonds and 6 months interest become payable around 13th May. If they were going to repay with more Bonds then I would have expected announcements by now. Which makes me think it will be more traditional methods of repayment eg a secured loan.

Wasps are able to track who is buying their bonds so will know who has bought. If SISU bought in then it doesn't really change what Wasps have to do mid May. So long as the bonds are repaid then the bond holders who ever they are have no further say

clint van damme · Apr 7, 2022

shmmeee said:
I worry the problem is no serious buyer would meet their distinctly unserious valuation.

Why would they? There must be dozens of clubs more attractive than us.

pusbccfc · Apr 7, 2022

They have no reason to sell. The club really isn't worth much more than the big name players we have.

Liquid Gold · Apr 7, 2022

It annoys me we don't have some rich fan like Stoke or Boro who would give them what they wanted and run us to succeed because they love us.

Frostie · Apr 7, 2022

Liquid Gold said:
It annoys me we don't have some rich fan like Stoke or Boro who would give them what they wanted and run us to succeed because they love us.

Which is great until they do a Mel Morris & decide they're fed up of picking up the tab after repeated failures.

Grendel · Apr 7, 2022

Frostie said:
Which is great until they do a Mel Morris & decide they're fed up of picking up the tab after repeated failures.

Yeah the owners of stoke and boro are really going to do that

Frostie · Apr 7, 2022

Grendel said:
Yeah the owners of stoke and boro are really going to do that

No, those 2 probably not in fairness but other rich fans might. Derby fans were convinced it would never happen with Mel Morris as he "loves the club"

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 7, 2022

Frostie said:
Which is great until they do a Mel Morris & decide they're fed up of picking up the tab after repeated failures.

Nearly 40 years at Middlesbrough, so I think he'd be entitled to say he'd done alright by them.

Liquid Gold · Apr 7, 2022

Frostie said:
Which is great until they do a Mel Morris & decide they're fed up of picking up the tab after repeated failures.

Why is every desire for things to be slightly better to be met with "but Derby"

Frostie · Apr 7, 2022

Deleted member 5849 said:
Nearly 40 years at Middlesbrough, so I think he'd be entitled to say he'd done alright by them.

Yeah absolutely, think he's pretty much the exception though.

Liquid Gold said:
Why is every desire for things to be slightly better to be met with "but Derby"

I'm not saying that. My point was specifically those 2 clubs are an exception. Most owners don't have neverending resources. Stoke's losses are eyewatering, they're literally being propped up by Bet365.

Slightly better yes, we should all want & deserve more than we get, undoubtedly.

chiefdave · Apr 8, 2022

shmmeee said:
I worry the problem is no serious buyer would meet their distinctly unserious valuation.

and that's the problem in a nutshell. there's no incentive for the to sell below the price they want while they can keep the club ticking over and there's nobody interested that has the kind of money to thrown away.

unless you were a fan of the club why would you pay over the odds for us given our situation over trying to buy any other club.

Sky Blue Pete · Apr 8, 2022

chiefdave said:
Money will make them sell. As much as they say the club is not for sale over and over again they will have a figure in mind and if a serious buyer came forward and was in that ballpark I'm certain there would be talks.

I’m not sure it’s ever not been for sale

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 8, 2022

chiefdave said:
and that's the problem in a nutshell. there's no incentive for the to sell below the price they want while they can keep the club ticking over and there's nobody interested that has the kind of money to thrown away.

unless you were a fan of the club why would you pay over the odds for us given our situation over trying to buy any other club.

The Catch 22 - anybody who would buy it must be a nutter!

Liquid Gold · Apr 8, 2022

I reckon we should all stop putting any money into the club so that they don't have it ticking over and are forced to sell.

We could call it not one nickel or cent extra, NONCE for short

Sky Blue Harry H · Apr 8, 2022

Sky Blue Pete said:
I’m not sure it’s ever not been for sale

or

I think it's always been up for sale

Sky Blue Pete · Apr 8, 2022

Sky Blue Harry H said:
or

I think it's always been up for sale

Quite!!!

Skyblueweeman · Apr 8, 2022

If we get promoted to the EPL (I'm not saying we will this season), I'm confident Joy will sell as she'll get her investors money back.

Not that it'll be an easy sell as you're buying a golden share, history and a balance sheet of players but until we get to the EPL, we'll have the current owners in place.

shmmeee · Apr 8, 2022

Skyblueweeman said:
If we get promoted to the EPL (I'm not saying we will this season), I'm confident Joy will sell as she'll get her investors money back.

Not that it'll be an easy sell as you're buying a golden share, history and a balance sheet of players but until we get to the EPL, we'll have the current owners in place.

But will we ever get to the EPL under this model?

Sky Blue Pete · Apr 8, 2022

shmmeee said:
But will we ever get to the EPL under this model?

The odds are astronomical I would think

KenilworthSkyBlue · Apr 8, 2022

Skyblueweeman said:
If we get promoted to the EPL (I'm not saying we will this season), I'm confident Joy will sell as she'll get her investors money back.

Not that it'll be an easy sell as you're buying a golden share, history and a balance sheet of players but until we get to the EPL, we'll have the current owners in place.

Would she though? I hear this a lot but I've never really thought it's as much of a foregone conclusion as fans make out.

Surely she'd gain far more by holding onto the club for a few more years, taking advantage of not only the PL money but also the subsequent parachute payments when we're inevitably relegated, rather than selling half way through the PL season?

Greggs · Apr 8, 2022

a really rich poker player or a cowboy with a plane.....

In what scenario would SISU sell? (1 Viewer)

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