It's all a blame game. (1 Viewer)

ccfcdale · Oct 19, 2014

The title quite simply says it all.

I don't feel sacking SP is the answer YET.

Granted we are the poorest club in league one at the moment on current form. Which is embarrassing I can't see where the next point will come from.

I believe some players are coming in for some unfair criticism, Allsopp is not as bad as people are making out, seem to remember is having a similar go at Murphy at times.

With so many injuries to the current squad it is always going to be hard but that's when you see who the characters are in the team. I'm glad to see Barton back in the picture at least I have always rated him fantastic passer of the ball.

What we do need to remember is we had a complete overhaul in the summer so the squad is gelling together still.

What are everyone else's thoughts on the current situation and plumate down the table?

Otis · Oct 19, 2014

ccfcdale said:
The title quite simply says it all.

I don't feel sacking SP is the answer YET.

Granted we are the poorest club in league one at the moment on current form. Which is embarrassing I can't see where the next point will come from.

I believe some players are coming in for some unfair criticism, Allsopp is not as bad as people are making out, seem to remember is having a similar go at Murphy at times.

With so many injuries to the current squad it is always going to be hard but that's when you see who the characters are in the team. I'm glad to see Barton back in the picture at least I have always rated him fantastic passer of the ball.

What we do need to remember is we had a complete overhaul in the summer so the squad is gelling together still.

What are everyone else's thoughts on the current situation and plumate down the table?

I read along quite merrily until you said Allsop wasn't as bad as some make out.

Even if there is a good keeper in there somewhere, he has been absolutely dreadful for us. An utter and total liability. He dithers, flaps, has no command of his area and is making mistakes in just about every single game he plays.

He has been truly awful.

Terry Gibson's perm · Oct 19, 2014

Yep and I blame Waggott when the players are playing well we here how he signed them but he seems a little quiet now! Can't live on the move back home forever.

The only bits I don't agree with are Pressley I would sack him now and many other teams have overhauled their squad in the summer but did it earlier and signed the correct players to fit a formation and also the goalkeeper is a shocker.

I think we will end up bottom and may struggle to get away from the bottom 4 thank god for the JPT.

Terry Gibson's perm · Oct 19, 2014

Otis said:
I read along quite merrily until you said Allsop wasn't as bad as some make out.

Even if there is a good keeper in there somewhere, he has been absolutely dreadful for us. An utter and total liability. He dithers, flaps, has no command of his area and is making mistakes in just about every single game he plays.

He has been truly awful.

He reminds me of an outfield player who has been asked to go in goal.

Otis · Oct 19, 2014

Terry Gibson's perm said:
Yep and I blame Waggott when the players are playing well we here how he signed them but he seems a little quiet now! Can't live on the move back home forever.

The only bits I don't agree with are Pressley I would sack him now and many other teams have overhauled their squad in the summer but did it earlier and signed the correct players to fit a formation and also the goalkeeper is a shocker.

I think we will end up bottom and may struggle to get away from the bottom 4 thank god for the JPT.

As I said on another thread, you have to blame Pressley for not addressing the midfield area. We are desperately crying out for a ball winning midfielder and we simply do not have one on our books.

That to my mind is very, very poor management.

Otis · Oct 19, 2014

Terry Gibson's perm said:
He reminds me of an outfield player who has been asked to go in goal.

Yes, exactly. It's almost as if each game he's pulling on the goalkeeping jersey for the very first time.

dongonzalos · Oct 19, 2014

I don't think you can get break even point and promotion.

Unless this generation of academy players coming through are really really special.

That will takes some years though.

So as long as we drive for break even point I think this is about our level

Terry Gibson's perm · Oct 19, 2014

Otis said:
As I said on another thread, you have to blame Pressley for not addressing the midfield area. We are desperately crying out for a ball winning midfielder and we simply do not have one on our books.

That to my mind is very, very poor management.

The team is weak in the most important area the spine of the side.

LJC_CCFC · Oct 19, 2014

He continues to play 5-3-2...that is all you need to know about his managerial expertise.

stupot07 · Oct 19, 2014

Terry Gibson's perm said:
The team is weak in the most important area the spine of the side.

No power, no strength, no pace, no speed of thought and a collection of midfielders who all want time and space on the ball so spend most of their time holding hands with the centre halves.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Grendel · Oct 19, 2014

Otis said:
I read along quite merrily until you said Allsop wasn't as bad as some make out.

Even if there is a good keeper in there somewhere, he has been absolutely dreadful for us. An utter and total liability. He dithers, flaps, has no command of his area and is making mistakes in just about every single game he plays.

He has been truly awful.

How many goals would you say were his fault and how many points as he cost us.

stupot07 · Oct 19, 2014

Grendel said:
How many goals would you say were his fault and how many points as he cost us.

I actually didn't think he was that bad yesterday. He's played a lot worse. Their keeper made more mistakes. Other than one incident when he misjudged and had to head it, he was quite quick of his line, his distribution was good a number of times he came and collected the ball and looked for the quick throw out, and actually caught a couple of catches. You couldn't really blame him for any of the goals. I gave him a 5 or 6 I think.

It's a bit like Clarke - he made that horrendous mistake for the third, not the only person to give the ball away. He gets vilified for it. It didn't cost us the game we were already beaten, yet Willis ball watching for their second gets completely overlooked.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Godiva · Oct 19, 2014

What exactly are we blaming who?

The club has installed a 'blueprint' for the type of football we play and that strategy has been installed in all teams at the club.
It does take time to recruit the right players for the right positions, and it takes time for the players to adapt and get confident in their positions.
This strategy change is something I have called for a long time, so obviously I am very pleased and I accept it takes time before we will see the benefits.

The club now gives the academy players a lot of game time. Not just as substitutes at the odd cup game, but as regular team players. This is something many, many posters on here has advocated for as long as I remember reading on this forum.
It does take time for very young players to adjust to the fact they are being judged every game on par with more senior players. Remember Ben Turner? The first two seasons he was really getting some abuse from the 'loyal faithful fans'. (Oh, that includes me as I believed he was slow and clumsy and cost us many points). But when he left ...!

We have been hit by a few injuries and especially Reda's suspension and injury combined with Frank Nouble's injury is hurting us.
The injuries have forced SP to shuffle a bit from game to game the last month. That means he is not fielding the same (mostly) team week in week out like in the beginning of the season. That doesn't help either.

If we should actually blame somebody, then let's blame ourselves for not being patient and expecting miracles in spite of what I mentioned above.

stupot07 · Oct 19, 2014

Are Reda's and Nouble's injuries hurting us or is it just a coincidence? I honestly don't think then returning is going to make everything hunky dory

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Evo1883 · Oct 19, 2014

On CWR last night they were defending the formation saying we played 343 , but it just looked the same to me , two wing backs , who were the 3 forwards ?

torchomatic · Oct 19, 2014

Actually, I don't think he's that bad. In a similar way that I don't think Willis and Haynes are as brilliant as some are making out. I don't think Allsop makes any more mistakes that Murphy used to. We conceded a lot of games after Murphy came running out of his goal. Allsop is pretty good on 1-2-1s. At least he's stopped the punching thing. I did expect him to punch goal kicks at one point.

We're going through a bad period and as fans do we're picking on players. I do it myself.

Otis said:
I read along quite merrily until you said Allsop wasn't as bad as some make out.

Even if there is a good keeper in there somewhere, he has been absolutely dreadful for us. An utter and total liability. He dithers, flaps, has no command of his area and is making mistakes in just about every single game he plays.

He has been truly awful.

covhead1 · Oct 19, 2014

Godiva said:
What exactly are we blaming who?

The club has installed a 'blueprint' for the type of football we play and that strategy has been installed in all teams at the club.
It does take time to recruit the right players for the right positions, and it takes time for the players to adapt and get confident in their positions.
This strategy change is something I have called for a long time, so obviously I am very pleased and I accept it takes time before we will see the benefits.

The club now gives the academy players a lot of game time. Not just as substitutes at the odd cup game, but as regular team players. This is something many, many posters on here has advocated for as long as I remember reading on this forum.
It does take time for very young players to adjust to the fact they are being judged every game on par with more senior players. Remember Ben Turner? The first two seasons he was really getting some abuse from the 'loyal faithful fans'. (Oh, that includes me as I believed he was slow and clumsy and cost us many points). But when he left ...!

We have been hit by a few injuries and especially Reda's suspension and injury combined with Frank Nouble's injury is hurting us.
The injuries have forced SP to shuffle a bit from game to game the last month. That means he is not fielding the same (mostly) team week in week out like in the beginning of the season. That doesn't help either.

If we should actually blame somebody, then let's blame ourselves for not being patient and expecting miracles in spite of what I mentioned above.

The trouble is that if we get relegated ( a fair chance at this rate) bringing in the 'right players for the right positions' is going to be even harder than it is now.
All i know is that our situation is getting more and more pear shaped. Thanks SISU.

stupot07 · Oct 19, 2014

CraigSBA said:
On CWR last night they were defending the formation saying we played 343 , but it just looked the same to me , two wing backs , who were the 3 forwards ?

Jackson, coulibaly, and mcqoid.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

ccfcdale · Oct 19, 2014

I'll just clarify I do think he's been awful. For me a keeper at this level should be commanding his area basic skills of a keeper he doesn't. I lost count of the amount of times I could hear Murphy from the stands.

It's all well and good having a vast overhaul of the squad but you have to have the right players in. So far we haven't. I feel sorry for Shaun Miller again yesterday proving what he can do.

oscillatewildly · Oct 19, 2014

Terry Gibson's perm said:
The team is weak in the most important area the spine of the side.

To be fair, that 'spine' of RJ, JF & FN is currently out injured.

Otis · Oct 19, 2014

stupot07 said:
No power, no strength, no pace, no speed of thought and a collection of midfielders who all want time and space on the ball so spend most of their time holding hands with the centre halves.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

But besides that, it's all good news, right?

Terry Gibson's perm · Oct 19, 2014

stupot07 said:
No power, no strength, no pace, no speed of thought and a collection of midfielders who all want time and space on the ball so spend most of their time holding hands with the centre halves.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Apart from that the side is ok?

The midfield play 10-15 yards to near to our goal we pretty much have a back seven plus the statue in goal

skybluedan · Oct 19, 2014

ccfcdale said:
The title quite simply says it all.

I don't feel sacking SP is the answer YET.

Granted we are the poorest club in league one at the moment on current form. Which is embarrassing I can't see where the next point will come from.

I believe some players are coming in for some unfair criticism, Allsopp is not as bad as people are making out, seem to remember is having a similar go at Murphy at times.

With so many injuries to the current squad it is always going to be hard but that's when you see who the characters are in the team. I'm glad to see Barton back in the picture at least I have always rated him fantastic passer of the ball.

What we do need to remember is we had a complete overhaul in the summer so the squad is gelling together still.

What are everyone else's thoughts on the current situation and plumate down the table?

Pressley cannot get the best out of the shit he has got in, he plays a formation that does not work for us and will get us relegated in the process if he don't change it or if he is not sacked, and as for allsopp fuck me what have you been smoking he is utter wank biscuits mate

Ian1779 · Oct 19, 2014

We need to take a step back for a few seconds. Pressley is trying to completely revamp the club from top to bottom - everything about the culture, mentality about us for the last 25 years has been negative and apathetic.

It was never going to be plain sailing. Right now we are in a slump. Put together a run of 2/3 wins and we're on the verge of playoffs.

Sacking Pressley would be a big mistake. We've spent the last 13 years having a different manager every year, and we've got nowhere.

We need continuity and stability now more than ever.

Grendel · Oct 19, 2014

Ian1779 said:
We need to take a step back for a few seconds. Pressley is trying to completely revamp the club from top to bottom - everything about the culture, mentality about us for the last 25 years has been negative and apathetic.

It was never going to be plain sailing. Right now we are in a slump. Put together a run of 2/3 wins and we're on the verge of playoffs.

Sacking Pressley would be a big mistake. We've spent the last 13 years having a different manager every year, and we've got nowhere.

We need continuity and stability now more than ever.

Actually I would say that the two years we kept with managers who should have been sacked were the two years we did get relegated.

Often sacking managers has kept the club up.

Terry Gibson's perm · Oct 19, 2014

Grendel said:
Actually I would say that the two years we kept with managers who should have been sacked were the two years we did get relegated.

Often sacking managers has kept the club up.

Rarely do I agree with you but on this you are 100% correct, we have been saved many times in the past by sacking managers.

Continuity is great if you are progressing even slowly we are in reverse and at a massive pace.

Ian1779 · Oct 19, 2014

Grendel said:
Actually I would say that the two years we kept with managers who should have been sacked were the two years we did get relegated.

Often sacking managers has kept the club up.

I was more referring to the time once we left the PL, but I take your point about Thorn.

Still don't think changing managers frequently is generally productive.

shy_tall_knight · Oct 19, 2014

Lets stop talking about nonsense that SP is trying to overhaul the club its utter bollax, we have uncertainty regarding ownership, revenue streams location etc.. and during this turmoil he is going to effectively change our culture, the way we play blah blah, not going to happen, bringing through youth players as a policy has a moderate impact Callum wilson & cyrus are now playing for other clubs as will Haynes in a few seasons - its hardly a policy its an economic necessity. Also where do loan players fit into this vision, unfortunately its competitive football its the here and now getting relegated but having 9 home grown players isn't an achievement it just puts the club under more economic pressure to sell any potential stars. Not sure what Bobby Gould's philosophy was but he identified good players Pearce, Oggy Peake Benno Killer- which formed our cup winning team with only 2 home grown players in the 13 man squad - who cared not me.

dongonzalos · Oct 19, 2014

How many managers have we had in how many years of decline.
We definitely need some stability for once

shy_tall_knight · Oct 19, 2014

dongonzalos said:
How many managers have we had in how many years of decline.
We definitely need some stability for once

We need stability off the pitch more, as for management change I tend to think we have chosen bad managers on the whole Peter Reid Thorne McAllister coleman Boothroyd Dowie - have never gone on to have a good management career after leaving us - which helps prove that they weren't much good

Hobo · Oct 19, 2014

Grendel said:
Actually I would say that the two years we kept with managers who should have been sacked were the two years we did get relegated.

Often sacking managers has kept the club up.

Factor in the amount of times we have just avoided relegation and it shows sacking managers just brings a short term fix. The fact we have had such a turnover of Managers and no continuity around tactics etc., players going in and out of favour, is why we have performed so poorly over the years. There is no pride in the club, it has lost its sense of identity.

SP is trying to in still some values and some promise is coming through the junior ranks; these are small glimmers of hope. The club needs to try and develop SP as a manager and a coach and develop the team around him. That is the way forward.

dongonzalos · Oct 19, 2014

Most of those managers have come out afterwards and put the blame squarely at the doors of the owners

Smudge1987 · Oct 19, 2014

shy_tall_knight said:
We need stability off the pitch more, as for management change I tend to think we have chosen bad managers on the whole Peter Reid Thorne McAllister coleman Boothroyd Dowie - have never gone on to have a good management career after leaving us - which helps prove that they weren't much good

Coleman has gone on to manage at international level and has the worlds most expensive footballer at his disposal.

Otis · Oct 19, 2014

Grendel said:
Actually I would say that the two years we kept with managers who should have been sacked were the two years we did get relegated.

Often sacking managers has kept the club up.

Maybe we should sack managers more often!

Do it every 10 games and we might just win the league.

shy_tall_knight · Oct 19, 2014

Coleman is a management failure - Wales national job on a par with league 1. How can people talk about continuity of tactics when we are giving player's 1 year contracts, like I keep saying whilst we have so much uncertainty off the pitch, lack of investment, no manager can effectively change the football ethos at a club, IMO a convenient excuse for poor results - look at the bigger picture take a 5 year view, going down to hopefully come back up stronger hasn't worked for us since 2001

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