Its like 2008 never happened.... (23 Viewers)

chiefdave · Aug 9, 2017

clint van damme said:
but what about people who don't have qualifications or training. Not everyone has it in their locker to be a go getter or achieve sought after qualifications. But there are plenty of people like that who still work their socks off in manual jobs or, for want of a better phrase, menial jobs,

They still deserve affordable housing, free health care and a decent standard of living, access to all of which is slowly been eroded.

Agree with this. If you're working a full time job you should be able to afford a half decent standard of living.

What is wrong with just coming to work at 9, working hard until 5 and expecting to be paid a decent amount?

Work / life balance in this country is terrible and its getting worse. I started working in 94 and gradually I've seen conditions worsen. Pay rises are poor or non existent, hours are creeping up. A lot of people seem to have gone from 9-5 to 9-5:30 to 8:30-5:30 without salaries increasing to compensate for the extra hours. There seems to be (this is non-scientific, just from my experience and people I know) less annual leave, less sick days etc. The opposite should be happening. With advancements in technology we should be working less hours for the same, or more pay.

clint van damme · Aug 9, 2017

Astute said:
Look at the EU thread. You know what my thoughts are. All you are doing here is agreeing with me.

And BTW I do a manual job in manufacturing. It's just that I also fix it when it goes wrong.

then you can see the point that it's getting harder for people nowadays.
A standard 2 up 2 down where I live is around £150,000. Raising the deposit and been able to get a mortgage for the remainder isn't easy, and if you can't you end up paying rent that's higher than the mortgage - I worry for my two youngest I really do.

Astute · Aug 9, 2017

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'd also say that just because some can do it after work and the like, some have personal circumstances that just deny the opportunity to do extra training - they have to work 100 hour weeks to support people, they have ill/sick relatives etc.

As I said I was working the 100 hour week. I did long shifts as a dock worker. My longest shift was a 34 hour shift. If you worked on unloading a boat you was there until the end.

How about hardly ever seeing your kids because you are always at work? That is what pushed me to train whilst working. It just meant I had more years of hardly seeing them. And I have always moved to where the work is. How many are prepared to keep moving away from family and friends to better their work chances?

All of my older kids are doing well or very well. Only one of them doesn't own their own property. None of them went to university. Yet my eldest is a fully qualified accountant. She started at the bottom and had her employers put her through the training. Then she would get a better job and do the same. Now she has a job with her local council and is in charge of her area. And she is the youngest out of all of them. They didn't like it. But hey ho.

Yes not everyone can do it. But if you put the effort into bettering yourself instead of putting your efforts into moaning about your lot you have a better chance of making something. And saving up for what you want instead of buying things on credit well helps. I work with people who have to pay over a grand a month on loan repayments. They look loaded. But they are cash poor. Whereas I look poor in my old motors. But because I have been careful with my money other than spending it on what I like to do I have nearly reached the stage where I can retire. But I am too young. I am still in my 40's.....just. And my youngest two are 7 and 8. But if I always had the latest stuff and new cars on the drive I would have to work well into my 60's.

Yes life can be tough. Not everyone can do well. But the more effort you put in the better chances you will have.

clint van damme · Aug 9, 2017

Astute said:
As I said I was working the 100 hour week. I did long shifts as a dock worker. My longest shift was a 34 hour shift. If you worked on unloading a boat you was there until the end.

How about hardly ever seeing your kids because you are always at work? That is what pushed me to train whilst working. It just meant I had more years of hardly seeing them. And I have always moved to where the work is. How many are prepared to keep moving away from family and friends to better their work chances?

All of my older kids are doing well or very well. Only one of them doesn't own their own property. None of them went to university. Yet my eldest is a fully qualified accountant. She started at the bottom and had her employers put her through the training. Then she would get a better job and do the same. Now she has a job with her local council and is in charge of her area. And she is the youngest out of all of them. They didn't like it. But hey ho.

Yes not everyone can do it. But if you put the effort into bettering yourself instead of putting your efforts into moaning about your lot you have a better chance of making something. And saving up for what you want instead of buying things on credit well helps. I work with people who have to pay over a grand a month on loan repayments. They look loaded. But they are cash poor. Whereas I look poor in my old motors. But because I have been careful with my money other than spending it on what I like to do I have nearly reached the stage where I can retire. But I am too young. I am still in my 40's.....just. And my youngest two are 7 and 8. But if I always had the latest stuff and new cars on the drive I would have to work well into my 60's.

Yes life can be tough. Not everyone can do well. But the more effort you put in the better chances you will have.

I agree there are people that can't manage their money or see the bigger picture I have came across plenty!

Astute · Aug 9, 2017

chiefdave said:
Agree with this. If you're working a full time job you should be able to afford a half decent standard of living.

What is wrong with just coming to work at 9, working hard until 5 and expecting to be paid a decent amount?

Work / life balance in this country is terrible and its getting worse. I started working in 94 and gradually I've seen conditions worsen. Pay rises are poor or non existent, hours are creeping up. A lot of people seem to have gone from 9-5 to 9-5:30 to 8:30-5:30 without salaries increasing to compensate for the extra hours. There seems to be (this is non-scientific, just from my experience and people I know) less annual leave, less sick days etc. The opposite should be happening. With advancements in technology we should be working less hours for the same, or more pay.

I agree. I had to work very long hours and had messed up relationships because of it. But I could have chosen to do the 35 hours a week and been on the breadline all my life. Instead I did years of working 3 times that and didn't waste what I earned. But I didn't have time to anyway. All I knew was work and bed nearly every day.

Nick · Aug 9, 2017

clint van damme said:
then you can see the point that it's getting harder for people nowadays.
A standard 2 up 2 down where I live is around £150,000. Raising the deposit and been able to get a mortgage for the remainder isn't easy, and if you can't you end up paying rent that's higher than the mortgage - I worry for my two youngest I really do.

Surely that's where you comprise though? If £150k is a struggle you get somewhere not so nice for £100k and work your way up the ladder?

It isn't ideal I know. I'm still baffled by my mates who went straight in for a £175k - £200k house for their first one and pretty much every penny of their wages goes on either the bills or their mortgage.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Aug 9, 2017

chiefdave said:
Agree with this. If you're working a full time job you should be able to afford a half decent standard of living.

What is wrong with just coming to work at 9, working hard until 5 and expecting to be paid a decent amount?

Work / life balance in this country is terrible and its getting worse. I started working in 94 and gradually I've seen conditions worsen. Pay rises are poor or non existent, hours are creeping up. A lot of people seem to have gone from 9-5 to 9-5:30 to 8:30-5:30 without salaries increasing to compensate for the extra hours. There seems to be (this is non-scientific, just from my experience and people I know) less annual leave, less sick days etc. The opposite should be happening. With advancements in technology we should be working less hours for the same, or more pay.

I aslo started working full time in the early 1990s (& this is also non-scientific, just from my experience and people I know.).....but it seems to me that an awful lot of people spend a lot more time AT work, but a lot less time actually working.........Net result longer hours.

These days I'm lucky/unlucky enough to be self-employed, but I have previously worked in small & large business, corporate & public sector.....and the sheer amount of work time people waste gossiping, playing on/with their phones, on facebook & football forums etc. etc.....some used to waste hours...literally...hours moaning about the amount of work they had to do.......used to do my fucking nut in.....

....as I say, luckily for my own stress levels & (relative) sanity, I only now share my workspace with my dog.....

...mind you....hes a lazy c**t as well....

clint van damme · Aug 9, 2017

Nick said:
Surely that's where you comprise though? If £150k is a struggle you get somewhere not so nice for £100k and work your way up the ladder?

It isn't ideal I know. I'm still baffled by my mates who went straight in for a £175k - £200k house for their first one and pretty much every penny of their wages goes on either the bills or their mortgage.

but a 2 up 2 down is hardly the lap of luxury, these were the sort of houses we started with. That's why I maintain that things are harder for the youngsters today.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 9, 2017

Astute said:
As I said I was working the 100 hour week. I did long shifts as a dock worker. My longest shift was a 34 hour shift. If you worked on unloading a boat you was there until the end.

How about hardly ever seeing your kids because you are always at work? That is what pushed me to train whilst working. It just meant I had more years of hardly seeing them. And I have always moved to where the work is. How many are prepared to keep moving away from family and friends to better their work chances?

All of my older kids are doing well or very well. Only one of them doesn't own their own property. None of them went to university. Yet my eldest is a fully qualified accountant. She started at the bottom and had her employers put her through the training. Then she would get a better job and do the same. Now she has a job with her local council and is in charge of her area. And she is the youngest out of all of them. They didn't like it. But hey ho.

Yes not everyone can do it. But if you put the effort into bettering yourself instead of putting your efforts into moaning about your lot you have a better chance of making something. And saving up for what you want instead of buying things on credit well helps. I work with people who have to pay over a grand a month on loan repayments. They look loaded. But they are cash poor. Whereas I look poor in my old motors. But because I have been careful with my money other than spending it on what I like to do I have nearly reached the stage where I can retire. But I am too young. I am still in my 40's.....just. And my youngest two are 7 and 8. But if I always had the latest stuff and new cars on the drive I would have to work well into my 60's.

Yes life can be tough. Not everyone can do well. But the more effort you put in the better chances you will have.

Just because you or I can do it doesn't mean everyone can though, as you say.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Aug 9, 2017

Anyway......back to original point.....The good people of the UK are addicted to cheap credit.....
....we have more personal debt that all the other major european nations combined.....its fucked up...
...and whilst I'm fully aware some folks use unsecured loans simply to get by.....the vast majority of this looming debt mountain has been spent, willy nilly.....on the consumer economy......
....and the pricks at the government & BofE love it, because they refuse to accept that the debt, and therefore, by extension, the consumer economy, is completely unsustainable...both economically & environmentally.

Liquid Gold · Aug 9, 2017

Where I live a 2 up to down that needs total renovation ( it doesn't even have a roof) is £350k

Astute · Aug 9, 2017

clint van damme said:
then you can see the point that it's getting harder for people nowadays.
A standard 2 up 2 down where I live is around £150,000. Raising the deposit and been able to get a mortgage for the remainder isn't easy, and if you can't you end up paying rent that's higher than the mortgage - I worry for my two youngest I really do.

Then move to where housing is cheaper. I live in a great part of the country. Jobs are plentiful. And you can still buy a 3 bed house for less than 100k. Walk down the road and you have a 13.5 mile beach. Look to the right and you can see the lake district. 150k gets you a large 3 bed semi with gardens.

My wife has just found her dream house. 7 bedrooms. She told me only 550k :woot: I told her that I wasn't going to work until I am 67. My plan is to buy a new luxury motorhome, give the house to the kids and then go. Drive to Dover, get to Calais then turn right. France, Spain, Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, Croatia and so on. And when I am in this country just follow our football club everywhere. It has been my aim for many years. It is what I have worked and saved for. And not having a luxury holiday every year is what is paying for it. Or I could have had new cars all the time and the latest gadgets with great holidays but a shit retirement. Or I could have stayed in Coventry and most probably struggled all my life.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Aug 9, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
Where I live a 2 up to down that needs total renovation ( it doesn't even have a roof) is £350k

Don't buy it then.....

Theres a house down the road from me thats detached 5 bedroom with garage & gardens for the same £350K.....

Nick · Aug 9, 2017

clint van damme said:
but a 2 up 2 down is hardly the lap of luxury, these were the sort of houses we started with. That's why I maintain that things are harder for the youngsters today.

The thing is not so many people want to buy a cheap house in a not so nice area and work their way up. I'm not saying they should live on the street but maybe not have such high levels of expectancy straight off.

I know people who for a first house when they didnt earn that much wanted to spend like £170K on a 3 bedroom in a niceish street, top virgin broadband, multi room sky, new kitchen, new bathroom, landscaped garden etc.

I know others who bought not so nice houses in not so nice areas and gradually over time did the kitchen, did the bathroom and they are in a much better position now. One of them just rents his first house out as the mortgage is that cheap the rent pays a nice chunk of the mortgage on his new, nicer house in a nicer area.

Nick · Aug 9, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
Where I live a 2 up to down that needs total renovation ( it doesn't even have a roof) is £350k

Surely you just move somewhere it's a bit cheaper?

Liquid Gold · Aug 9, 2017

Nick said:
Surely you just move somewhere it's a bit cheaper?

I've looked but there is no way I pursue my career.

Astute · Aug 9, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
Where I live a 2 up to down that needs total renovation ( it doesn't even have a roof) is £350k

You have the choice. Live where you can't afford to live or move to where you can.

Astute · Aug 9, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
I've looked but there is no way I pursue my career.

So what you want to do can only be done where you live and nowhere else?

Nick · Aug 9, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
I've looked but there is no way I pursue my career.

Surely you just move to a different area / suburb etc etc.

It's like Coventry, you go to Finham / Styvechale and you will pay a fair bit more than if you went to Willenhall / Stoke Aldermoor. Everybody would like their first house to be a nice cosy 3 bedroomed house in Styvechale but it may not be realistic. The options are then to get a new job with more money or live in Stoke / Willenhall until you have worked up in the career and then look to move to the nice area.

One of my mates is terrible for it, he had a £110k budget / mortgage and was so picky it was unbelievable. It had to be within 5 miles from his work, 3 bedroom, ready to move in with no work, semi detached etc.

Liquid Gold · Aug 9, 2017

Astute said:
So what you want to do can only be done where you live and nowhere else?

Between me and my parter the options are limited to places that take the piss with regards to house prices.

SIR ERNIE · Aug 9, 2017

Astute said:
As I said I was working the 100 hour week. I did long shifts as a dock worker. My longest shift was a 34 hour shift. If you worked on unloading a boat you was there until the end.

How about hardly ever seeing your kids because you are always at work? That is what pushed me to train whilst working. It just meant I had more years of hardly seeing them. And I have always moved to where the work is. How many are prepared to keep moving away from family and friends to better their work chances?

All of my older kids are doing well or very well. Only one of them doesn't own their own property. None of them went to university. Yet my eldest is a fully qualified accountant. She started at the bottom and had her employers put her through the training. Then she would get a better job and do the same. Now she has a job with her local council and is in charge of her area. And she is the youngest out of all of them. They didn't like it. But hey ho.

Yes not everyone can do it. But if you put the effort into bettering yourself instead of putting your efforts into moaning about your lot you have a better chance of making something. And saving up for what you want instead of buying things on credit well helps. I work with people who have to pay over a grand a month on loan repayments. They look loaded. But they are cash poor. Whereas I look poor in my old motors. But because I have been careful with my money other than spending it on what I like to do I have nearly reached the stage where I can retire. But I am too young. I am still in my 40's.....just. And my youngest two are 7 and 8. But if I always had the latest stuff and new cars on the drive I would have to work well into my 60's.

Yes life can be tough. Not everyone can do well. But the more effort you put in the better chances you will have.

Great post.

Nick · Aug 9, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
Between me and my parter the options are limited to places that take the piss with regards to house prices.

Are there no areas just outside where you can commute a little bit to get to work that are cheaper to start off while you both build careers?

Liquid Gold · Aug 9, 2017

Nick said:
Are there no areas just outside where you can commute a little bit to get to work that are cheaper to start off while you both build careers?

On the very outskirts you're looking at £150k-£175k for places that are just lease holds.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Aug 9, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
On the very outskirts you're looking at £150k-£175k for places that are just lease holds.

My home sits on leasehold ground.......Nowt wrong with a leasehold property....assuming its a long lease & the freeholder ain't a gangster.....

Astute · Aug 9, 2017

Here is one of our views. It is the Isle of Man you can see in the distance.

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/attac...8/?temp_hash=59af8b9479acb642a2a72078f389ddbe

Liquid Gold · Aug 9, 2017

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
My home sits on leasehold ground.......Nowt wrong with a leasehold property....assuming its a long lease & the freeholder ain't a gangster.....

They all seem to be around 40 years. It's not something I've looked in to so know little about it. Won't the value just decrease the whole time as you get closer to the end of the lease?

Nick · Aug 9, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
On the very outskirts you're looking at £150k-£175k for places that are just lease holds.

Aren't you in Bristol? I dont know the area so probably miles out but theres one here for 140k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-66929525.html

If you go a bit further out there's loads in Newport.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 9, 2017

Nick said:
Surely you just move somewhere it's a bit cheaper?

I get the general point... although some jobs are very London / South Coast centred, so it's often damned if you do (can't afford top buy) damned if you don't (can't afford to buy because you can't progress your career moving to those places).

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 9, 2017

Nick said:
there's loads in Newport.

Only a nutter'd live in Newport

Nick · Aug 9, 2017

Deleted member 5849 said:
I get the general point... although some jobs are very London / South Coast centred, so it's often damned if you do (can't afford top buy) damned if you don't (can't afford to buy because you can't progress your career moving to those places).

Surely if it is a temporary thing while you train and progress your career you just commute? Not ideal but if the job has to be there you buy outside and get the train or something?

Obviously factoring in rail tickets etc to it all.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 9, 2017

Astute said:
Then move to where housing is cheaper. I live in a great part of the country. Jobs are plentiful. And you can still buy a 3 bed house for less than 100k. Walk down the road and you have a 13.5 mile beach. Look to the right and you can see the lake district. 150k gets you a large 3 bed semi with gardens.

If my personal circumstances change, I'll be contacting you for the jobs listings

Astute · Aug 9, 2017

Liquid Gold said:
They all seem to be around 40 years. It's not something I've looked in to so know little about it. Won't the value just decrease the whole time as you get closer to the end of the lease?

You have the right to renew the lease. The shorter the remaining lease the more you will pay. Look at about 20% of the property value and you won't go far wrong. But you will struggle to get a mortgage on a lease with less than 50 years to go. But because of this the selling price will be much lower than with a longer lease.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 9, 2017

Nick said:
Surely if it is a temporary thing while you train and progress your career you just commute? Not ideal but if the job has to be there you buy outside and get the train or something?

Obviously factoring in rail tickets etc to it all.

Checked out the season ticket price of a train to London?

It ain't really viable.

And some careers physically *can't* progress to the stage you can buy a house in the capital.

Astute · Aug 9, 2017

Deleted member 5849 said:
If my personal circumstances change, I'll be contacting you for the jobs listings

What can you do? My wife builds submarines :smuggrin:

Liquid Gold · Aug 9, 2017

Nick said:
Aren't you in Bristol? I dont know the area so probably miles out but theres one here for 140k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-66929525.html

If you go a bit further out there's loads in Newport.

That's like the difference between Warwick uni and the Ricoh just to get into the centre. Public transport is awful in Bristol so would mean driving everywhere too which would put costs up. It's stills something I'd consider if I could get deposits up though. Like I mentioned previously I have fairly heavy debts that I needed to take on to qualify myself to the level I'm at and the living cost is high around here (what ever I said £38k in rent in the last few years alone - that being on the lower end of the spectrum).

I should do the decent thing and give up on CCFC but then what do you have to look forward to/ruin your weekend.

Its like 2008 never happened.... (23 Viewers)

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