It's time for thorn to go. (3 Viewers)

Danny said:

I'm sorry mumford i respect your opinions but our squad is a shower of shit. We have cranie, clingan and juke who are of real quality the rest of the squad is made up of promising youngsters and bang average football players. Thorn has an eye for talent which has been proven through the players he has found in previous years for the club. Thorn has made a couple of tactical errors but its easy to sit a slate saying he should be doing this or he should be doing that because every fan has their own opinion. The reason we are not doing well is due to lack of investment I feel thorn is doing the best job he can do with the limited resources he has at his disposal, he will make mistakes because it is his first job in management. The other side of the coin is I don't believe their is a manager who would be good enough to get us out of our predicament that we could realistically attract to the club

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Thats fair enough but these players are not as bad as were making out. They can perform at this level and have showed in glimpses this season. Late goals have been our downfall and that has got to do with the manager. His tactics and what he says to them. Too many times we sit back on a 1 goal lead and just invite pressure.

One other thing Danny. I agree Thorn has an eye for talent so thats why he's a very good scout. That doesn't make him a good manager unfortuntely.

Mumford and Daughter said:

Exactly so why do we play a formation which dont suit the players weve got. All our goals come from crosses yet we don't play with much width.

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What formation do you think suits our players? We have no wingers - bell, baker and mcsheffery have all been poor out wide. It would also stop our fullbacks bombing on, we'd have to play deegan and one of bigi, Thomas or clingan otherwise the strikers would be isolated.

433 - we'd have to pit our top goal scorer on the left wing, and our new poacher on the right,

4231 - tried that and it didn't work

352 is worth a shout but we've only for 3 fit centre backs so no cover if there's an injury.

skybluesteve76 said:

Mate with all due respect, not winning on Saturday had absolutely nothing to do with investment. As did getting embarrassed at Barnsley etc!
Thorns decision making and tactics and what he says in press conferences have nothing to do with investment either!

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I think lack of investment had a hell of a lot to do with not winning Saturday, point being that we wouldn't have had to play academy kids, one of which got sent off & played a major role in us not winning the game.

stupot07 said:

What formation do you think suits our players? We have no wingers - bell, baker and mcsheffery have all been poor out wide. It would also stop our fullbacks bombing on, we'd have to play deegan and one of bigi, Thomas or clingan otherwise the strikers would be isolated.

433 - we'd have to pit our top goal scorer on the left wing, and our new poacher on the right,

4231 - tried that and it didn't work

352 is worth a shout but we've only for 3 fit centre backs so no cover if there's an injury.

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I'd give 352 a go myself with Hussey and Christie as wing backs. Its plain to see, we look a threat from crosses so why not try. Weve got Cameron, Wood, Keogh at the back. Thomas, Clingan Deegan in the middle and Cody with Juke. Looks strong enough for me.

gaz said:

I think lack of investment had a hell of a lot to do with not winning Saturday, point being that we wouldn't have had to play academy kids, one of which got sent off & played a major role in us not winning the game.

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But the kids have been our saving grace this season. Better then the likes of Bell, McShreffrey, Clingan and ROD.

Otis said:

Not saying I disagree with you, but there has been many a club relegated playing 'good football.' Might be nice to watch but it doesn't automatically bring you points does it.
13

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Tbf there are some teams that have gone down playing good football.
But I would say very confidently that there is a bloody lot more that have gone up playing good football.

Mumford and Daughter said:

One other thing Danny. I agree Thorn has an eye for talent so thats why he's a very good scout. That doesn't make him a good manager unfortuntely.

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Yes i was'nt inferring that makes him a good manager i just think that if he had money behind him it would be very interesting to see what players he would have bought in...shame really

Mumford and Daughter said:

But the kids have been our saving grace this season. Better then the likes of Bell, McShreffrey, Clingan and ROD.

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Bigi wasn't our 'saving grace Saturday though was he ?

We are having to play the likes of Mcsheffrey & Bell because of lack investment. Fact.

Danny said:

Yes i was'nt inferring that makes him a good manager i just think that if he had money behind him it would be very interesting to see what players he would have bought in...shame really

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I agree but i feel he's more of a scout than a manager, just my opninon. I would like Thorn to prove me wrong, he is likeable chap but i personally dont think hes a good enough manager.

Whilst Thorn clearly made a series of mistakes on Saturday he is, like many of his squad, inexperienced and will learn. He is trying to achieve the impossible and create a competitive team with a lesser squad than finished just above relegation last year. Whatever some may think King, Westwood, Gunnar, Turner, McIndoe, Osbourne etc were experienced and capable players who have been replaced with inexperienced albeit promising kids. Whilst Thorn is no Brian Clough, not yet at least, he is trying to do a job with no support from the board and needs our support more than any manager in the past - if anyone is to blame for our parlous state its our mystery owners via the faceless SISU and the triumvirate of Crapulence, McGinnity, Richardson and Robinson before them. AT has inherited an almost impossible task and we need to get behind him and the team or else we will definitely be doomed. If you want to be angry with anyone then I suggest you aim direct your venom towards the empty Directors box, a villa in Portugal and SISU in London.

We're stuck with Thorn like we're stuck with SISU.

Try and fucking support him.

So who do you all suggest we get? This is a pathetic thread and extremely childish. AT is not to blame. Can anyone say that if we had good experienced players with the current style of football we would be in this situation? Also, would you all be shouting for his head. Saying I should get a grip when some of you behave like over-grown kids is rich.

Mumford and Daughter said:

I'd give 352 a go myself with Hussey and Christie as wing backs. Its plain to see, we look a threat from crosses so why not try. Weve got Cameron, Wood, Keogh at the back. Thomas, Clingan Deegan in the middle and Cody with Juke. Looks strong enough for me.

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Yes I would give this ago, but it's not without it's limitations - if the opposition play two wide men high up the pitch it could pin the wingbacks back so that we're more of a 532, we'll then struggle to get the ball wide. Every formation has pro's and con's.

Plus as a team that are struggling for goals playing 5 defenders may be viewed as a bit negative

Wallace said:

So who do you all suggest we get? This is a pathetic thread and extremely childish. AT is not to blame. Can anyone say that if we had good experienced players with the current style of football we would be in this situation? Also, would you all be shouting for his head. Saying I should get a grip when some of you behave like over-grown kids is rich.

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That's a bit rich isn't it?!!!

Wallace said:

So who do you all suggest we get? This is a pathetic thread and extremely childish. AT is not to blame. Can anyone say that if we had good experienced players with the current style of football we would be in this situation? Also, would you all be shouting for his head. Saying I should get a grip when some of you behave like over-grown kids is rich.

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AT was to blame on Saturday though.

Wallace said:

So who do you all suggest we get? This is a pathetic thread and extremely childish. AT is not to blame. Can anyone say that if we had good experienced players with the current style of football we would be in this situation? Also, would you all be shouting for his head. Saying I should get a grip when some of you behave like over-grown kids is rich.

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Thorn is not blameless in all this, he's not fully to blame i agree but partly at least.

We all know the situation this club is in but if we don't go down this season and SISU finally give up the ghost and go, then next season could be one of progression and transformation. Thorn is a likebale chap and if Coleman or Dowie was in charge now making the same decsions, i know more fans would be on there back.

I don't know who would come in to replace Thorn and i haven't said he should be sacked but i just feel if something isn't done soon then it could be too late

People can moan about investment and SISU all they like but at the end of the day Thorn HAS to be to blame for some things tactically. We can all say "we have no new players, we need to play with what we have" which is what he is doing but unless on Saturday SISU said that he couldn't bring somebody like Deegan or Cameron on because of finance then I would say that was thorn's fault.

I can't remember the last time we had a manager that made game changing changes. At Palace I was listening on the radio and could tell we needed to make a change without even being there, all they were doing was piling pressure onto us and it was just a matter of time before they scored. Is it that hard for him to see by being on the touchline? It is not about being negative, it is about holding onto points. Negative football is playing 6-3-1 from the start, not making changes to win us games or stop us from losing.

Time and Time again we see Managers spot how we are playing and change things about to combat it and completely boss us in midfield.

There were a fair few players looking tired too, Christie and Thomas for starters. 2 subs would have meant fresh legs.

I still think AT is doing an OK job not a great one if he keeps us up this season it will be a sucess however if we get 0 points from Donny and Millwall I think his position should be reviewed.
All fans calling for him to be sacked should bear in mind that Carsley is probably next in line to replace him.

CCFC said:

I still think AT is doing an OK job not a great one if he keeps us up this season it will be a sucess however if we get 0 points from Donny and Millwall I think his position should be reviewed.
All fans calling for him to be sacked should bear in mind that Carsley is probably next in line to replace him.

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We all know that we have no resources, are playing kids and that it was always looking like being a relegation scrap. It is therefore hard enough for us anyway without then having a manager making crucial errors to boot. We need all the help we can get.

Two subs on Saturday may have made all the difference. They might have well have course made no difference at all, but when the chips are down and the opposition are looking likely to score you have to try something. It must have been like the three wise monkey's all rolled into one on the touchline on Saturday.

How long is AT's contract? Am I right in thinking we only gave him a 1 year deal?

It isnt just about bringing fresh legs on though. The substitutions are an opportunity to catch breath, get organised, gee players up and to break up the opposition rhythm. All of which would have helped on Saturday. Hope he learns from it.

To be fair to Thorn, this is his first management and I think his first coaching job. He is still learning. Tactiaclly, there has been times where he has got it right (i.e bringing on Deegan and him scoring) and times he has got it wrong (Palace, Burnley).

He's only had 25 games in football management and I think people forget that.

Otis said:

We all know that we have no resources, are playing kids and that it was always looking like being a relegation scrap. It is therefore hard enough for us anyway without then having a manager making crucial errors to boot. We need all the help we can get.

Two subs on Saturday may have made all the difference. They might have well have course made no difference at all, but when the chips are down and the opposition are looking likely to score you have to try something. It must have been like the three wise monkey's all rolled into one on the touchline on Saturday.

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I agree imo he definitely should have changed it on Saturday.

But he has been an ex professional player to a good standard. Has spent hours watching hundreds of games as a scout. He didnt just drop into management with no experience of tactics or what it takes on the pitch.

The hardest part of being a manager with his playing experience should be dealing with the off the pitch politics, man management, and PR. Experience of the profession on the pitch should and does help him make decisions on match days.

Wallace said:

So who do you all suggest we get? This is a pathetic thread and extremely childish. AT is not to blame. Can anyone say that if we had good experienced players with the current style of football we would be in this situation? Also, would you all be shouting for his head. Saying I should get a grip when some of you behave like over-grown kids is rich.

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wallace could you point out exactly where anyone on here is being childish !!
Its called debating, and if your only input is to call people childish for debating a relevant and important subject, i suggest you start a thread of your own that would be of interest to us all.
People like you make me fucking sick.

The Rev

oldskyblue58 said:

But he has been an ex professional player to a good standard. Has spent hours watching hundreds of games as a scout. He didnt just drop into management with no experience of tactics or what it takes on the pitch.

The hardest part of being a manager with his playing experience should be dealing with the off the pitch politics, man management, and PR. Experience of the profession on the pitch should and does help him make decisions on match days.

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Exactly, he has been in the game all his life I think. Working as a player, then scout then manager. So why is it so blatantly obvious to everybody else?

If players are calling out for a substitution, if they notice that AT is making these errors then will they lose faith?

wallace get a grip lad, this is a football forum and everyone has there own views,ermm thats why we are all here
so stop being a wanker and chill

People who are stating that Andy Thorn should be sacked now are speaking with the bitterness of defeat hanging over them. 10 managers in 10 years is a negative, let's not contribute to that at this stage. This season may have highlighted some tactical errors, but it would have been incredibly naive to think that these would never surface in a fledgling managerial career. Thorn got us playing better football than Aidy Boothroyd and I give him credit for that. Does that make him immune from blame? Of course not. Do I think that sacking another manager less than 35 games into his career would be sensible? No again... not least given the fact we are all but financially ruined and money could be far better prioritised on a couple of loanees than a slight payment to relieve Thorn and the inevitable increased financial burden of employing someone else (the only person who would take over for the same or less money than Thorn is Carsley, anyone else would want more money). I didn't get to go on Saturday, but I will be at Donny and I will be supporting my team and the manager. This is the time for fans to make a concerted effort to do the same. It is far too simplistic to say 'I have disagreed with a handful of decisions that Thorn has made and I believe he may have cost us points... he should be sacked'. We do not have the finances to make this happen and the disatisfaction from the fans is being levelled at the wrong person. It seems all but the most vociferous are united in the thought that this season should and will be a struggle. The Club is being mis-managed from the top. Such is our lot. It will not be changing any time soon. Getting on Thorn's back and trying to hound him out at this juncture in the season will be detrimental to the club we all support. He's on a hiding to nothing as it is... unless there is a viable option (i.e. cheaper for SISU), then get behind him. If you think a quick change is in order, take stock of the fact this is not Championship Manager and we have to be realistic. Despite playing time, he is a rookie manager. The players seem to respond to him and he has placed a much needed emphasis on passing. We are not the finished article and there are errors, but it would be ridiculous to assume these would be absent, given our situation. It's Monday after a loss on Saturday. Negativity on a forum is inevitable, but it seems to be picking up pace here in abundance. In my opinion, those shouldering the diatribes are not always warranted (I've seen it to be Thorn and Murphy in recent weeks, for example - at times, yes; overall, no).

Unless you have the money to go and get a miracle worker then we have to do with what we have. Hey maybe we can get Jebus from Block 15, he can walk on water!

Covstu said:

Unless you have the money to go and get a miracle worker then we have to do with what we have. Hey maybe we can get Jebus from Block 15, he can walk on water!

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Lol jesus is a legend

Wallace said:

So who do you all suggest we get? This is a pathetic thread and extremely childish. AT is not to blame. Can anyone say that if we had good experienced players with the current style of football we would be in this situation? Also, would you all be shouting for his head. Saying I should get a grip when some of you behave like over-grown kids is rich.

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It is not childish to disagree with your view. Rightly or wrongly managers only last 18 months on average in this league and many go sooner rather than that. To have any chance of a real future the club have to survive the season. There are 4 or 5 other poor teams that we can overhaul.

The debate is who is best equipped to engineer this. Two of these teams are coming up next. Doncaster are effectively managed by a football agent with a puppet manager so should be ripe for beating. We will see how this game is approached.

Exactly, i may not agree with others and vice a versa, doesn't mean were wrong, just difference of opinon and thats what football and message boards are about. Be boring otherwise.

There's no point getting someone else in if you're not going to give them money to bring in their own players. Of course AT will make mistakes, every manager does, but he's not doing a terrible job bearing in mind what he's got to work with. Think he would benifit from someone with a lot of management experiance in a advisor or director of football role but obvioulsy we're not going to pay someone to do that. Maybe he can persuade someone like Bobby Gould to do it for free!