Joe Cole (2 Viewers)

Astute · Jan 14, 2016

Hobo said:
No it shows you are capable of making up meaningless stats

And we would have won every game this season if Maddison hadn't got injured at the start of the fourth game as we won the first three?

Yes anyone can make up meaningless stats. If the squad and team was the same from before Cole joined and then afterwards then the stats would have a true meaning. How many defeats did we have before he started playing for us and how many since? Have our attendances gone up just to watch him? No pitch invaders before he joined but many since. Is that his fault as the stats could 'prove' it is.

idm1975 · Jan 14, 2016

Grendel said:
How many times have you seen him play out if interest?

4 times for us

Otis · Jan 14, 2016

idm1975 said:
4 times for us

And how many times for someone else?

idm1975 · Jan 14, 2016

Astute said:
And we would have won every game this season if Maddison hadn't got injured at the start of the fourth game as we won the first three?

Yes anyone can make up meaningless stats. If the squad and team was the same from before Cole joined and then afterwards then the stats would have a true meaning. How many defeats did we have before he started playing for us and how many since? Have our attendances gone up just to watch him? No pitch invaders before he joined but many since. Is that his fault as the stats could 'prove' it is.

Its a totally irrelevant stat, so many perms to it. If there is 1 manager in the world that picks his team like that then he is clueless!

idm1975 · Jan 14, 2016

Otis said:
And how many times for someone else?

Numerous times for England....your point is?

Otis · Jan 14, 2016

idm1975 said:
Numerous times for England....your point is?

Just checking.

idm1975 · Jan 14, 2016

Was you hoping i had fallen into a trap and was going to say one of: West Ham, Chelsea, Liverpool or Villa?

Otis · Jan 14, 2016

idm1975 said:
Was you hoping i had fallen into a trap and was going to say one of: West Ham, Chelsea, Liverpool or Villa?

As a City fan? Would be concerned.

shmmeee · Jan 14, 2016

Hobo said:
No it shows you are capable of making up meaningless stats, because there is no link between your family members dead or alive and the performance of the team.

What if Tony Mowbray is his uncle?

Astute · Jan 14, 2016

idm1975 said:
Its a totally irrelevant stat, so many perms to it.

You got it.

Just like the results before Cole where we had a better defence to since he started playing for us. Or is it only irrelevant if it suits who is coming out with the stats? Like I said earlier if Cole was the only change then the stats would be relevant.

Evo1883 · Jan 14, 2016

Think he is getting better each game , his performances against Crewe then especially Walsall show me he is getting there and definitely shows glimpses of what a class act he is .
More to the point shouldn't we commend a player who has clearly taken a massive pay cut to come and play with a side he enjoys playing with and I would imagine there is a player / coach role there in the near future .

Hadji10 · Jan 14, 2016

Grendel said:
That's a problem though isn't it? We've now accepted a player who cannot last 90 minutes - he just can't - and struggles with 2 games a week.

Our points per game ratio with and without him would make interesting reading I suspect.

I think it's a team problem. It's not just Cole who can last 90 mins, it's everyone. Happened 5 or 6 times this season where the first half has been very good and the second half abysmal and lacklustre.

skybluetony176 · Jan 14, 2016

Astute said:
Before Cole joined 6 of my relatives died in less than a year. Since he joined there hasn't been a death in the family. Is it down to Cole or is it that you can make stats look like you want them to?

It's worse than that. Before Cole was born dinosaurs roamed the earth. Since he was born there's not been one confirmed sighting of a dinosaur. 100% proof that Cole is responsible for the extinction of the dinosaur. What a bastard.

Grendel · Jan 14, 2016

Astute said:
And we would have won every game this season if Maddison hadn't got injured at the start of the fourth game as we won the first three?

Yes anyone can make up meaningless stats. If the squad and team was the same from before Cole joined and then afterwards then the stats would have a true meaning. How many defeats did we have before he started playing for us and how many since? Have our attendances gone up just to watch him? No pitch invaders before he joined but many since. Is that his fault as the stats could 'prove' it is.

So basically there is no measurement that can be used to evaluate an individual's impact.

It's down to subjective opinion - right?

Grendel · Jan 14, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
It's worse than that. Before Cole was born dinosaurs roamed the earth. Since he was born there's not been one confirmed sighting of a dinosaur. 100% proof that Cole is responsible for the extinction of the dinosaur. What a bastard.

I suspect they did roam the earth the last time you went to a game to be fair.

Hobo · Jan 14, 2016

I didn't join in with the Cole hysteria. The reason is I had genuine concerns whether he would fill a role for us? Hardly any football since 2013, injury problems and now at 34 would it be possible under those circumstances he would still have the legs for a central midfield role. In my opinion the most physically demanding on the pitch. Whoever we bring into this promising team has to be right.

His first few appearances didn't bust my concerns. Yes his pedigree was there to see but he seemed off the pace. He was also further behind on gaining match fitness than I anticipated. Yes he could deliver at free kicks and corners, an area we have been lacking in for a number of years, but we still needed more at the table than that.

However his last two games have shown that he can still perform at this level. Even if it will be alternated between a 60 minute show and 30 off the bench. His ability to pick a pass could be invaluable to our attacking options. Also he can bring a vital voice of experience to the pitch and dressing room. I am sure he won't be panicking about drawing against Walsall when there is still twenty games to go.

I feel Murphy is a great talent at 18, certainly at this level. He has shown he can destroy teams. But has also shown he struggles to get going in some games and drifts out of others. We need a dynamic 30 to 40 minutes from him spread across the game. At the moment we are sometimes only getting 15. I feel he needs a voice alongside him encouraging him and keeping him focused. He also needs the right service.

It is well known good teams need experienced leaders. At the start of the season we had Ricketts and Vincelot. Now we can add Cole and hopefully Hunt. Hunt has always been energetic with good fitness and was playing regulary till this season. He should give us options and cover around Stokes and Murphy. He can give us versatility around attacking and defensive awareness in both positions. He is also another experienced and vocal player.

Remember this is only Mowbrey's second transfer window and he has already achieved more than I expected. Plus he has had to cope with extraordinary injury problems at CB. We still need a dominant CB and an alternative/partner to Armstrong.

Promotion is not going to come on a plate: Burton, Gillingham, Wigan and Walsall are very capable sides. There are others who are capable on their day of spoiling a party. But we are well placed. I firmly believe we haven't unlocked our best football yet and if we can learn to be a bit tighter and meaner defensively with the ability to shut games down in the last 15 minutes; it could be a very special year.

rupert_bear · Jan 14, 2016

Our problem is not finishing games off, happened a number of times now, Armstrong is a striker talent but not what I call a 6 yard box poacher not yet anyway. That's where we are lacking imo too much reliance on Armstrong. I can't remember the last headed goal from a cross other than free-kicks or corners.

skybluelee · Jan 14, 2016

Hadji10 said:
I think it's a team problem. It's not just Cole who can last 90 mins, it's everyone. Happened 5 or 6 times this season where the first half has been very good and the second half abysmal and lacklustre.

There's probably as many occassions where we've dominated in the last 20-30 minutes of matches - Peterborough, Bury, Chesterfield (H&A) spring immediately to mind.

Astute · Jan 14, 2016

Grendel said:
So basically there is no measurement that can be used to evaluate an individual's impact.

It's down to subjective opinion - right?

Of course there are measurements that can be used. But only taking results when one player has played or not and not taking into account the other 10 players isn't that accurate. Even you mentioned the defence. Are you now saying that the difference in the defence makes no difference?

idm1975 · Jan 14, 2016

Grendel said:
So basically there is no measurement that can be used to evaluate an individual's impact.

It's down to subjective opinion - right?

So the way you evaluate a player is not by watching him??

Brylowes · Jan 14, 2016

Grendel said:
I suspect they did roam the earth the last time you went to a game to be fair.

There used to be one at the games.Big fat Ron.

Grendel · Jan 14, 2016

idm1975 said:
So the way you evaluate a player is not by watching him??

Well given some opinions on some players by some on here I am not sure. Personally though I don't think Bigiamara will go for £35 million, Hussey is the next Gareth Bale, Haynes will play for England, Murphy is the laziest player to ever wear "the shirt" or RCC will be quickly snapped up by a premier league team (or indeed the next week be dropped for Burge)

Oh and I don't think Andy Thorn was the best manager since Jimmy Hill

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 14, 2016

Hobo said:
I didn't join in with the Cole hysteria. The reason is I had genuine concerns whether he would fill a role for us? Hardly any football since 2013, injury problems and now at 34 would it be possible under those circumstances he would still have the legs for a central midfield role. In my opinion the most physically demanding on the pitch. Whoever we bring into this promising team has to be right.

His first few appearances didn't bust my concerns. Yes his pedigree was there to see but he seemed off the pace. He was also further behind on gaining match fitness than I anticipated. Yes he could deliver at free kicks and corners, an area we have been lacking in for a number of years, but we still needed more at the table than that.

However his last two games have shown that he can still perform at this level. Even if it will be alternated between a 60 minute show and 30 off the bench. His ability to pick a pass could be invaluable to our attacking options. Also he can bring a vital voice of experience to the pitch and dressing room. I am sure he won't be panicking about drawing against Walsall when there is still twenty games to go.

I feel Murphy is a great talent at 18, certainly at this level. He has shown he can destroy teams. But has also shown he struggles to get going in some games and drifts out of others. We need a dynamic 30 to 40 minutes from him spread across the game. At the moment we are sometimes only getting 15. I feel he needs a voice alongside him encouraging him and keeping him focused. He also needs the right service.

It is well known good teams need experienced leaders. At the start of the season we had Ricketts and Vincelot. Now we can add Cole and hopefully Hunt. Hunt has always been energetic with good fitness and was playing regulary till this season. He should give us options and cover around Stokes and Murphy. He can give us versatility around attacking and defensive awareness in both positions. He is also another experienced and vocal player.

Remember this is only Mowbrey's second transfer window and he has already achieved more than I expected. Plus he has had to cope with extraordinary injury problems at CB. We still need a dominant CB and an alternative/partner to Armstrong.

Promotion is not going to come on a plate: Burton, Gillingham, Wigan and Walsall are very capable sides. There are others who are capable on their day of spoiling a party. But we are well placed. I firmly believe we haven't unlocked our best football yet and if we can learn to be a bit tighter and meaner defensively with the ability to shut games down in the last 15 minutes; it could be a very special year.

Very eloquently put mate.

fernandopartridge · Jan 14, 2016

BoomShanka said:
The equaliser came from O'Brien not tracking the full back. It was the full back who crossed it. Phillips was marking the winger. Cole will make a huge difference. He was talking to the front 5 all the time.

He got sucked towards the ball as he often does. Like others have mentioned Bigi would have helped if holding a lead, another body to crowd out the midfield.

Brylowes · Jan 14, 2016

Grendel said:
Well given some opinions on some players by some on here I am not sure. Personally though I don't think Bigiamara will go for £35 million, Hussey is the next Gareth Bale, Haynes will play for England, Murphy is the laziest player to ever wear "the shirt" or RCC will be quickly snapped up by a premier league team (or indeed the next week be dropped for Burge)

Oh and I don't think Andy Thorn was the best manager since Jimmy Hill

Six out of 7 ain't bad but Haynes will definitely play for England.At what I've no idea.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Jan 14, 2016

Grendel said:
Well given some opinions on some players by some on here I am not sure. Personally though I don't think Bigiamara will go for £35 million, Hussey is the next Gareth Bale, Haynes will play for England, Murphy is the laziest player to ever wear "the shirt" or RCC will be quickly snapped up by a premier league team (or indeed the next week be dropped for Burge)

Oh and I don't think Andy Thorn was the best manager since Jimmy Hill

....but you did think Cole should have been sent packing after his initial 35 days?

idm1975 · Jan 14, 2016

Grendel said:
Well given some opinions on some players by some on here I am not sure. Personally though I don't think Bigiamara will go for £35 million, Hussey is the next Gareth Bale, Haynes will play for England, Murphy is the laziest player to ever wear "the shirt" or RCC will be quickly snapped up by a premier league team (or indeed the next week be dropped for Burge)

Oh and I don't think Andy Thorn was the best manager since Jimmy Hill

It was your opinion I was after. Have you let TM and MV know that the way to evaluate a player correctly is your way, I am sure they would find it a big help.

ajsccfc · Jan 14, 2016

Get a room you two.

chiefdave · Jan 14, 2016

Brylowes said:
Six out of 7 ain't bad but Haynes will definitely play for England.At what I've no idea.

I reckon he'll be in the Winter Olympic curling team.

Have we got any ex-players who have represented their country at another sport?

mechaishida · Jan 14, 2016

Brylowes said:
Six out of 7 ain't bad but Haynes will definitely play for England.At what I've no idea.

Hairdressing, probably.

MalcSB · Jan 14, 2016

From everything he says, his demeanour and attitude, Joe Cole sees to be a top bloke. Many of our players, even the seasoned pros, will respect and/or admire what he has achieved in the game. If his public persona is demonstrated on the training ground, players and staff will also respect his opinions. That should have a truly positive effect on his team mates.

His performances on the pitch are improving, and with the new players signed and to be signed, the rest of the season could be even better than the first.

Definitely a time for positivity, even for CCFC supporters!

Speedies_Chips · Jan 14, 2016

BoomShanka said:
The equaliser came from O'Brien not tracking the full back. It was the full back who crossed it. Phillips was marking the winger. Cole will make a huge difference. He was talking to the front 5 all the time.

The equaliser actually came from Phillips losing (or loosing for a lot of people) the ball in their half when he had an easy layoff. So when they gained possession the ball was played over to their right side and then eventually back over into the space where Phillips should have got back to. As it was, JOB was trying to cover that space but couldn't quite intercept the pass to the player who crossed to Bradshaw.

Astute · Jan 14, 2016

Grendel said:
Well given some opinions on some players by some on here I am not sure. Personally though I don't think Bigiamara will go for £35 million, Hussey is the next Gareth Bale, Haynes will play for England, Murphy is the laziest player to ever wear "the shirt" or RCC will be quickly snapped up by a premier league team (or indeed the next week be dropped for Burge)

Oh and I don't think Andy Thorn was the best manager since Jimmy Hill

You forgot to say that Wilson wasn't worth 3m, wouldn't score in the Championship and then certainly wouldn't score in the Prem.

skybluetony176 · Jan 14, 2016

Grendel said:
I suspect they did roam the earth the last time you went to a game to be fair.

I was there Tuesday night will be there on Saturday to. Last time before that was Northampton in the cup. I think dinosaurs have been extinct long before that. At least before Joe Cole was born at least. Unless you're trying to tell me Jurassic Park was a documentary.

Grendel · Jan 14, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
I was there Tuesday night will be there on Saturday to. Last time before that was Northampton in the cup. I think dinosaurs have been extinct long before that. At least before Joe Cole was born at least. Unless you're trying to tell me Jurassic Park was a documentary.

Two games in a row? You'd think we were playing top of the table sides - is that the sound of a bandwagon rolling that I can hear?

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