Kiing's contract...why such a short one? (2 Viewers)

oakey · May 8, 2011

When we offered MK a chance to revive his career why did we let him have the opportunity to walk away so soon? Could we not have inserted clauses which gave CCFC at least a one season option to extend the contract? Looks like Ranson missed another trick there?:facepalm:
Now I think he got more out of the deal than we did and whatever you think of him personally, his goals notwithstanding, he's come up smelling of roses and CCFC is back to square one. His recent comments suggest he agrees with me.

Lord_Nampil · May 8, 2011

wasn't he on 9 months parole???

mattylad · May 8, 2011

its amazing what cleverness you can produce with the powers of hindsight, i bet if he had been gash people would be complaining why we had given him a longer contract (had we done so)

skybluesteve76 · May 8, 2011

That's like saying if only we had more points than everyone else we'd be champions!

SkyBlueScottie · May 8, 2011

It was short one due to the fact the club took a gamble in signing him, a signing which many thought we should not do, I can understand the way thinking.

im-confused · May 8, 2011

Because we're probably paying him a lot, and if he would have been a flop we would have to pay him for another year or two.

ajsccfc · May 8, 2011

He was a player who had played no professional football for a while and came pre-packaged with a terrible reputation, very few were predicting that he'd even behave himself, much less be a footballing success.

It's very easy to ask why he didn't get a longer deal now, but when we signed him it wasn't a subject that came up much.

IrishSkyBlue · May 8, 2011

the should have put a clause in if he scored over certain amount of goals we get another season out of him lol

oakey · May 8, 2011

I think it was discussed at the time, certainly on other forums if not this one.
It is the job of business people who draw up contracts to think of potential outcomes, positive and negative, then draw up a deal which gives a good outcome whatever transpires. A clause giving the club a one-year option is not rocket science.
It is a weak point to suggest that because you and me didn't think it through people that run the club can be forgiven for not doing so. It was a bad deal for this club who gave MK a chance to revive his career whilst being well-paid.
I repeat, he got more out of it and Ranson is culpable for not negotiating a better deal.:thinking about:

rob9872 · May 8, 2011

I think his agent was the problem. Aidy was desperate to get Marlon in and Marlon wanted to play, but they knew that he would succeed at this level and probably had one last chance to sign a lengthy and decent contract, so it was a two-sided thing as the only way we could get him on a salary we could afford and to put him in the shop window. He can demonstrate that not only is he rehabilitated and less of a gamble but also what he can still offer. A top side would probably have considered it more of a risk and now it would look more calculated. I think we all knew we were lucky to have him this season and despite noises coming out I would be amazed if he signed. I think were it not for the special relationship that Marlon and Aidy had/have was the only reason we got a sniff.

covcity4life · May 9, 2011

probably to avoid a backlash from such annoying fans who ddint want to sign him

sotv1987 · May 9, 2011

IrishSkyBlue said:
the should have put a clause in if he scored over certain amount of goals we get another season out of him lol

That clause would not have worked IMO, he came here as a stepping stone to bigger things, i feel, so if there was interest in him, of which there is/was he would simply dried up with the goals or not have played as many games, however i do agree they should have put some sort of clause to keep him, maybe he may show some loyalty to a club that actually gave him a chance to return to football, our name has been dragged through the mud in order to give him a chance so in my view, he owes us. PUSB

oldskyblue58 · May 9, 2011

Why does he owe us ?

He got a chance to play again........ if we had not offered someone else would have, the world of football is not a place built on great morals and principles so dont kid yourself we were the only ones in for him. As for the mud it will all be forgotten in less than 12 months if he leaves in July and it wont stick ....... yes there has been the chants etc but increasingly match reports and other fans have focussed on the guys ability

We got a premiership class striker that in ordinary circumstances was well out of our league. He was but an employee and I doubt because of his baggage we paid him top wages for the obvious skills he brought. His ability on the pitch has given other team mates standards to aspire to (thats on the pitch not off) and clearly helped develop players like Jutkiewicz. Yes there was a lot of criticism about his signing..... i certainly didnt want him..... however on the pitch he has proven to be a valuable if short term signing and we could easily be in a far different position in the table without his goals.

Reality is that it was short term because it suited both sides to be so. We cant afford to pay the wages he can command and he doesnt want to be playing in the lower reaches of the Championship. The arrangement gave both sides flexibility without great cost or the risk of being tied into something they want out of.

rob9872 · May 9, 2011

I concur OSB - parity restored

sotv1987 · May 9, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
Why does he owe us ?

He got a chance to play again........ if we had not offered someone else would have, the world of football is not a place built on great morals and principles so dont kid yourself we were the only ones in for him. As for the mud it will all be forgotten in less than 12 months if he leaves in July and it wont stick ....... yes there has been the chants etc but increasingly match reports and other fans have focussed on the guys ability

We got a premiership class striker that in ordinary circumstances was well out of our league. He was but an employee and I doubt because of his baggage we paid him top wages for the obvious skills he brought. His ability on the pitch has given other team mates standards to aspire to (thats on the pitch not off) and clearly helped develop players like Jutkiewicz. Yes there was a lot of criticism about his signing..... i certainly didnt want him..... however on the pitch he has proven to be a valuable if short term signing and we could easily be in a far different position in the table without his goals.

Reality is that it was short term because it suited both sides to be so. We cant afford to pay the wages he can command and he doesnt want to be playing in the lower reaches of the Championship. The arrangement gave both sides flexibility without great cost or the risk of being tied into something they want out of.

Some great comments OSB, however, i don't seem to remember another club coming in for him, correct me if i'm wrong, I also feel that there should be some layalty shown in this case, you may say that the the mud will all be forgotten in 12 month, and this may be the case, but we will always be known as tha family club that took a chance on a women beater, sex case or whatever people percieve of him in order to take advantage of the players personal situation, so i will have to disagree with your view and stick by my comment that he owes us.

I also tend to disagree with your comment that other fans comment on his ability rather than his past, i am a season ticket holder and went to most games away also, i don't remember any of the chants from the away fans terrace bieng "he scores gaols Malon" they have always berrated him in reference to his crimes committed in the past, in fact, some of our fans in some of his early games for us where chanting some terrible things, overall, not good press, i feel he owes us for that too!!!!

Correct, we could well have been in a different position without his goal, but certainly not in a relegation battle as i feel that yes he has brought on Jukebox but i feel that a lot of that is down to AT as we were in dire straight with AB yet Marlon was still getting a game.

I do agree that it did suit both sides at the time of his arrival as both sides were not sure how it was going to work out, however i think we should both agree that it would'nt have been difficult to put an option for another season in the contract.

Please don't get me wrong i think ha has done a brilliant job for us, but just have a think, who has actually got us out of the shit??? AT and a team effort, i would love to see him stay and think he should do because of the chance we took on him that no other team was willing to do. PUSB

ajsccfc · May 9, 2011

QPR were at least one of the other sides being linked with King when we were.

mattylad · May 9, 2011

ajsccfc said:
QPR were at least one of the other sides being linked with King when we were.

They were certainly one of the clubs his agent linked him with ;-)

sotv1987 · May 9, 2011

mattylad said:
They were certainly one of the clubs his agent linked him with ;-)

I totally agree with you both and should have put that in my post, but, there was never anything put to the player, no other club took a chance and i also seem to remeber that the QPR manager (warnock) said he wasn't interested at one time, i woudl stand corrected on that though, however there were no firm offers put his way, we took the chance.

ajsccfc · May 9, 2011

Warnock was quoted as being interested too:

Warnock, whose side opened the Championship season with a 4-0 win over Barnsley on Saturday, has admitted he may be willing to offer the forward a chance. "We haven't got a 20-goal-a-season man and you do need one," he told the Daily Mail. "He has served his time and we live in a country that we say when they have finished their time, give them another opportunity.
"He is a good player and I think he will score goals. I am not condoning what he has done but I look at some of the other cases of players who have got into trouble in the past. People have killed people and they never got the stick this lad has got. Whoever takes him, he will want to prove himself."

sotv1987 · May 9, 2011

ajsccfc said:
Warnock was quoted as being interested too:

Warnock, whose side opened the Championship season with a 4-0 win over Barnsley on Saturday, has admitted he may be willing to offer the forward a chance. "We haven't got a 20-goal-a-season man and you do need one," he told the Daily Mail. "He has served his time and we live in a country that we say when they have finished their time, give them another opportunity.
"He is a good player and I think he will score goals. I am not condoning what he has done but I look at some of the other cases of players who have got into trouble in the past. People have killed people and they never got the stick this lad has got. Whoever takes him, he will want to prove himself."

Absolutley correct ajs, however, i reiterate, nobody took a chance on him, only us!!!!

ajsccfc · May 9, 2011

How do we know? He was negotiating with us for quite some time after all.

sotv1987 · May 9, 2011

ajsccfc said:
How do we know? He was negotiating with us for quite some time after all.

We will never know asj, the facts are, He signed for Cov and there was never any reported offers from any other team.

oldskyblue58 · May 9, 2011

Sorry but you dont know other teams didnt, there were newspaper reports at the time of others interested. To think we were the only ones that were interested in signing him is unrealistic. The reason we went top of the list was the AB connection.

We bought damaged goods and paid accordingly. Simply put it was a contract for supply of services of finite length entered into willingly by both parties for a set sum of remuneration. There is no contractual obligation for loyalty, you could argue a moral one but why should he be a different case to anyone else employed in this country? We paid below the going rate because of his reputation and off pitch record ......fair contract fair price owes us nothing.

For the record I argued long and loud against King being signed because of his personal life..... detested the idea. Do you really think that in years to come that the overwhelming majority of people will actually care we signed him if he is long gone ? There wont be the chants if he is gone, there has never been a chant about us signing him. Was watching Sky sports at weekend they raved about him, go to other forums there are other fans commenting on his form .... of course his reputation precedes him would not argue otherwise but a growing number of people appreciate the ability if not the man.

How is that King can control the chants of fans in order to repay us just exactly?. He has to take responsibility for his actions but not for the actions/chants of others surely. We knew there would be bad press when we signed him thats why we got him cheap, we could have said no, so how does that mean he owes us because groups of fans chant revolting songs about him...... does that mean Bellamy owes, Dublin owes Savage owes etc?

At a crucial time of the season King scored 6 goals in April, often an important goal too. We would have been worse off without those goals and you cant rule out the possibility of being in a relegation dog fight but agree it was unlikely. What his goals did do was increase the confidence of the team which helped us play the football we have. It takes more than one man be it AT or King and a whole lot of luck to be even moderately successful

AT is the manager not the coach....... more likely to be Harrison that influenced Jutkiewicz than ATin terms of how he used his skills ...... although I know AT's attitude/character had a big effect on all players. But read the comments made by Jutkiewicz himself, he credits King with making him a better player. Juke played far more games than King including in the bad period. Of course King was getting a game he was head and shoulders above most other players we had in ability what ever the system played. As you say it is a team effort ........ good or bad so you cant lay the dire straights at only King

Perhaps we may have asked for the option of another year...... perhaps it was asked for not agreed...... but it would only be an option King could still say no thanks and be off...... still wouldnt mean we got a fee for him...... we would still be in the same financial situation and still offer him what we have already..... not sure how people think an option would make much difference, both sides could walk away from it, an option only gives you first shot at an offer.

I accept AT has done a great job in turning things around........... bottom line is the team got us in the mess in the first place just as much as they got us out of it...... yes a big chunk was AB but once the players step over the white line as they say...... I totally understand the sentiment you are putting forward and in truth would wish it was like that ..... that players teams managers directors and owners had some loyalty....... fact is they dont, it is business and all about the money. What ever his history he owes us no more loyalty than any other player etc

I suspect we are going to have to agree to differ on this one sotv1987

smileycov · May 9, 2011

OSB, i love reading your posts!!!

i remember having a set too with you over King (no grudge held )
I wish he would stay, however i don't think loyalty is going to come into it, he will be offered a move by a bigger club, offering better money than we can. He would be a fool too himself to turn that down.
The only reason he would stay is if we offered the same wage he would get elsewhere, i will not bear a grudge if he left, i would wish him well and give stick when we play him, the same stick i give to most opposition...no more no less!!

sotv1987 · May 9, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
Sorry but you dont know other teams didnt, there were newspaper reports at the time of others interested. To think we were the only ones that were interested in signing him is unrealistic. The reason we went top of the list was the AB connection.

We bought damaged goods and paid accordingly. Simply put it was a contract for supply of services of finite length entered into willingly by both parties for a set sum of remuneration. There is no contractual obligation for loyalty, you could argue a moral one but why should he be a different case to anyone else employed in this country? We paid below the going rate because of his reputation and off pitch record ......fair contract fair price owes us nothing.

For the record I argued long and loud against King being signed because of his personal life..... detested the idea. Do you really think that in years to come that the overwhelming majority of people will actually care we signed him if he is long gone ? There wont be the chants if he is gone, there has never been a chant about us signing him. Was watching Sky sports at weekend they raved about him, go to other forums there are other fans commenting on his form .... of course his reputation precedes him would not argue otherwise but a growing number of people appreciate the ability if not the man.

How is that King can control the chants of fans in order to repay us just exactly?. He has to take responsibility for his actions but not for the actions/chants of others surely. We knew there would be bad press when we signed him thats why we got him cheap, we could have said no, so how does that mean he owes us because groups of fans chant revolting songs about him...... does that mean Bellamy owes, Dublin owes Savage owes etc?

At a crucial time of the season King scored 6 goals in April, often an important goal too. We would have been worse off without those goals and you cant rule out the possibility of being in a relegation dog fight but agree it was unlikely. What his goals did do was increase the confidence of the team which helped us play the football we have. It takes more than one man be it AT or King and a whole lot of luck to be even moderately successful

AT is the manager not the coach....... more likely to be Harrison that influenced Jutkiewicz than ATin terms of how he used his skills ...... although I know AT's attitude/character had a big effect on all players. But read the comments made by Jutkiewicz himself, he credits King with making him a better player. Juke played far more games than King including in the bad period. Of course King was getting a game he was head and shoulders above most other players we had in ability what ever the system played. As you say it is a team effort ........ good or bad so you cant lay the dire straights at only King

Perhaps we may have asked for the option of another year...... perhaps it was asked for not agreed...... but it would only be an option King could still say no thanks and be off...... still wouldnt mean we got a fee for him...... we would still be in the same financial situation and still offer him what we have already..... not sure how people think an option would make much difference, both sides could walk away from it, an option only gives you first shot at an offer.

I accept AT has done a great job in turning things around........... bottom line is the team got us in the mess in the first place just as much as they got us out of it...... yes a big chunk was AB but once the players step over the white line as they say...... I totally understand the sentiment you are putting forward and in truth would wish it was like that ..... that players teams managers directors and owners had some loyalty....... fact is they dont, it is business and all about the money. What ever his history he owes us no more loyalty than any other player etc

I suspect we are going to have to agree to differ on this one sotv1987

I think so OSB, you have some great views that certainly made me sit up and think about things, however, i stick with my views, all the best!!! PUSB

rob9872 · May 9, 2011

Errr just one point of that I don't agree with - Bellamy really DOES still owe us.

I've never liked Bellamy because of his character and some of the things he said after he left, but keeping that separate, he was woeful. He contributed so little and for a top player to play so poorly in our relegation season is unforgivable. We would surely have stayed up if he had produced more.

oldskyblue58 · May 9, 2011

No grudge on my part either smileycov:wave:

"I wish he would stay, however i don't think loyalty is going to come into it, he will be offered a move by a bigger club, offering better money than we can. He would be a fool too himself to turn that down.
The only reason he would stay is if we offered the same wage he would get elsewhere, i will not bear a grudge if he left, i would wish him well and give stick when we play him, the same stick i give to most opposition...no more no less!! "

On that part of the King saga I totally agree with you ...... I appeciate the ability if not the man

im-confused · May 9, 2011

Think I have to agree with sotv on this one.. although OSB makes some good points.

oldskyblue58 · May 9, 2011

To be honest Rob I did have to think twice before soiling the post with his name

Kiing's contract...why such a short one? (2 Viewers)

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