Leon available for transfer (14 Viewers)

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Aug 15, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
Don't think we actually had anything like one of the lowest wage budgets in the league.

Not one for telling stories, but have heard of one player, who came to us from effectively non-league, was on £8000 a week, and he was nothing like close to a "name", since left for nothing of course to lower standard.

Anybody who seriously believed that Eastwood was actually on £1000 a week, after signing for us from Woves for £1.5million, still having a hefty amount of time left on his very lucrative contract with Wolves(who paid around £3million for him) needs their head looking at.

I don't have all the figures to hand, but you know I did 'research' this somewhat. Here are the league positions from the relegation season with squad expenditures taken from either accounts, or where could be reported at the time:

1 Reading
2 Southampton
3 West Ham United
4 Birmingham City
5 Blackpool
6 Cardiff City, £13.5m*
7 Middlesbrough
8 Hull City
9 Leicester City, £14.5m*
10 Brighton & Hove Albion
11 Watford, £10.8m*
12 Derby County, £9.6m*
13 Burnley, £16.9m (total ‘staff’ costs)
14 Leeds United, £12.9
15 Ipswich Town, £17m*
16 Millwall , started the season with £4m, and increased to £5.5m
17 Crystal Palace
18 Peterborough United
19 Nottingham Forest, £11.2m*
20 Bristol City, £13.8m*
21 Barnsley, started season with £7.5, and reduced to £6.2m
22 Portsmouth (R), started the season with £30m+
23 Coventry City (R)
24 Doncaster Rovers (R), started the season with £8m, tried to reduce with Willie McKay scheme

Edited as I improved the formatting from the original post. This was in my 'Drafts' from my Inbox, so isn't complete. Oh, and don't ask what the asterisks were for. Evidently a key I devised at the time, and I now can't remember what it was for!

lordsummerisle · Aug 15, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
I don't have all the figures to hand, but you know I did 'research' this somewhat. Here are the league positions from the relegation season with squad expenditures taken from either accounts, or where could be reported at the time:

1 Reading
2 Southampton
3 West Ham United
4 Birmingham City
5 Blackpool
6 Cardiff City, £13.5m*
7 Middlesbrough
8 Hull City
9 Leicester City, £14.5m*
10 Brighton & Hove Albion
11 Watford, £10.8m*
12 Derby County, £9.6m*
13 Burnley, £16.9m (total ‘staff’ costs)
14 Leeds United, £12.9
15 Ipswich Town, £17m*
16 Millwall , started the season with £4m, and increased to £5.5m
17 Crystal Palace
18 Peterborough United
19 Nottingham Forest, £11.2m*
20 Bristol City, £13.8m*
21 Barnsley, started season with £7.5, and reduced to £6.2m
22 Portsmouth (R), started the season with £30m+
23 Coventry City (R)
24 Doncaster Rovers (R), started the season with £8m, tried to reduce with Willie McKay scheme

That's cleared it up then!

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Aug 15, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
Hmm - not sure if using an example of the club making a sale post Ranson leaving could really be credited to him. Unless of course, he was operating in his other business of lending money to football clubs to buy players.

No. His team bought promising players with potential to make money on. Some of those players were sold during his tenure. Others sold after for profit after he left. It doesn't alter the fact that - despite his evident faults - he did overall 'buy well'

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Aug 15, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
That's cleared it up then!

I've edited it for you now. Special, like!

lordsummerisle · Aug 15, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
I've edited it for you now. Special, like!

Well that's 50% of the teams then.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Aug 15, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
Well that's 50% of the teams then.

The top four, Hull and 'Boro weren't even worth researching. Just look at their squads and draw your own conclusions

fernandopartridge · Aug 15, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
No. His team bought promising players with potential to make money on. Some of those players were sold during his tenure. Others sold after for profit after he left. It doesn't alter the fact that - despite his evident faults - he did overall 'buy well'

Yep:

Beuzelin
Eastwood
McPake
Sawyer
Bell
Wright
Clingan
Deegan
Hussey
Madine
Sears
McIndoe
Barnett
Wood
Platt
O'Halloran
Carsley
O'Donovan

All excellent signings that delivered on the pitch and also provided a financial return when leaving the club.

lordsummerisle · Aug 15, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
Yep:

Beuzelin
Eastwood
McPake
Sawyer
Bell
Wright
Clingan
Deegan
Hussey
Madine
Sears
McIndoe
Barnett
Wood
Platt
O'Halloran
Carsley
O'Donovan

All excellent signings that delivered on the pitch and also provided a financial return when leaving the club.

Madine, Sears, and Barnett were on loan i think, so wouldn't count, but do get the rest of the point.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Aug 15, 2013

More financials here LS, this being for the season before our relagation, 2010 - 11. Our figures are missing due to the usual, but you'll see a context:

http://www.thescratchingshed.com/2012/04/championship-clubs-financial-results-2010-11/

Look at those wages!

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 15, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
Madine and Sears were on loan i think, so wouldn't count, but do get the rest of the point.

A loan signing will just cost wages and never get a return in transfer fee, so surely counts more than most in terms of signings as financial investments?

Sterling Archer · Aug 15, 2013

That list of players is very embarrassing. My word, we've thrown some money at some shite over the years!

Coleman was even clever enough to give our worst defender at the time (Wright) the Captaincy and make him undroppable, if I remember correctly.

lordsummerisle · Aug 15, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
A loan signing will just cost wages and never get a return in transfer fee, so surely counts more than most in terms of signings as financial investments?

A lot more to add to the list then, remember Sawyer??

fernandopartridge · Aug 15, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
Madine, Sears, and Barnett were on loan i think, so wouldn't count, but do get the rest of the point.

There is a cost attached to them regardless - they cost wages while they were here - for a club that spent more than its turnover on wages it's pretty criminal.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Aug 15, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
Yep:

Beuzelin
Eastwood
McPake
Sawyer
Bell
Wright
Clingan
Deegan
Hussey
Madine
Sears
McIndoe
Barnett
Wood
Platt
O'Halloran
Carsley
O'Donovan

All excellent signings that delivered on the pitch and also provided a financial return when leaving the club.

At no point did I say 'his team made money on every player'; so your list is irrelevant.

What you can do, if you wish to come back with a thought through response, is to list the players upon who we made a loss. Then net this out against the surplus made on Fox, Dann, Keogh et al. Then tell me to whether my central claim that we - overall - made money in the transfer market as a function of buying well in his tenure is accurate or not. I'll wait, eh?

lordsummerisle · Aug 15, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
At no point did I say 'his team made money on every player'; so your list is irrelevant.

What you can do, if you wish to come back with a thought through response, is to list the players upon who we made a loss. Then net this out against the surplus made on Fox, Dann, Keogh et al. Then tell me to whether my central claim that we - overall - made money in the transfer market as a function of buying well in his tenure is accurate or not. I'll wait, eh?

It's fairly obvious to anybody that we must have broken even:

Transfer fees paid out: £Undisclosed.

Transfer fees received: £Undisclosed.

Proof if ever needed.

fernandopartridge · Aug 15, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
At no point did I say 'his team made money on every player'; so your list is irrelevant.

What you can do, if you wish to come back with a thought through response, is to list the players upon who we made a loss. Then net this out against the surplus made on Fox, Dann, Keogh et al. Then tell me to whether my central claim that we - overall - made money in the transfer market as a function of buying well in his tenure is accurate or not. I'll wait, eh?

Without knowing the wage costs of each player I can't provide the detail you require. Suffice to say that the list I've provided is a lot bigger than "Well they sold Fox, Dann and Keogh at a profit".

I know they paid a minimum of £3m for Eastwood, Clingan, Wood and Bell. How much did they get back for these 3? Would that cost swallow up the profits made on the sales of Fox, Dann and Keogh?

Ashdown1 · Aug 15, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
Yep:

Beuzelin
Eastwood
McPake
Sawyer
Bell
Wright
Clingan
Deegan
Hussey
Madine
Sears
McIndoe
Barnett
Wood
Platt
O'Halloran
Carsley
O'Donovan

All excellent signings that delivered on the pitch and also provided a financial return when leaving the club.

No wonder we are where we are with some of those super stars !!

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Aug 15, 2013

What I state, as none of us have access to facts given absent accounts, is that in the recent forum debates Fisher - who is no stranger to hyperbole or deflecting a pointed finger in the direction of anyone else - admitted that over SISU's term they have 'broken even' on transfer activity.

It's all recorded should anyone wish to revisit it. And no excess profit has been made by any player not signed since Ranson left

ajsccfc · Aug 15, 2013

I can't have been the sole Beuzelin fan. That assist with the outside of his boot against somebody in that game I can't remember was better than most Cov players manage in their entire career.

Buster · Aug 15, 2013

You are all harking back to a time when football was plan a. and stadium collecting was plan b.
Im afraid , a. has gone ----- hence the op

fernandopartridge · Aug 15, 2013

ajsccfc said:
I can't have been the sole Beuzelin fan. That assist with the outside of his boot against somebody in that game I can't remember was better than most Cov players manage in their entire career.

Yeah - agree - think it was a boxing day or Christmas game but it was a great ball, to Morrison iirc.

fernandopartridge · Aug 15, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
What I state, as none of us have access to facts given absent accounts, is that in the recent forum debates Fisher - who is no stranger to hyperbole or deflecting a pointed finger in the direction of anyone else - admitted that over SISU's term they have 'broken even' on transfer activity.

It's all recorded should anyone wish to revisit it. And no excess profit has been made by any player not signed since Ranson left

Although I am not sure how this could be gleened from accounts that were "in a mess". I would be surprised if they had broken even in reality, and not just headlines about transfer fees.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Aug 15, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
I don't have all the figures to hand, but you know I did 'research' this somewhat. Here are the league positions from the relegation season with squad expenditures taken from either accounts, or where could be reported at the time:

1 Reading
2 Southampton
3 West Ham United
4 Birmingham City
5 Blackpool
6 Cardiff City, £13.5m*
7 Middlesbrough
8 Hull City
9 Leicester City, £14.5m*
10 Brighton & Hove Albion
11 Watford, £10.8m*
12 Derby County, £9.6m*
13 Burnley, £16.9m (total ‘staff’ costs)
14 Leeds United, £12.9
15 Ipswich Town, £17m*
16 Millwall , started the season with £4m, and increased to £5.5m
17 Crystal Palace
18 Peterborough United
19 Nottingham Forest, £11.2m*
20 Bristol City, £13.8m*
21 Barnsley, started season with £7.5, and reduced to £6.2m
22 Portsmouth (R), started the season with £30m+
23 Coventry City (R)
24 Doncaster Rovers (R), started the season with £8m, tried to reduce with Willie McKay scheme

Edited as I improved the formatting from the original post. This was in my 'Drafts' from my Inbox, so isn't complete. Oh, and don't ask what the asterisks were for. Evidently a key I devised at the time, and I now can't remember what it was for!

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
More financials here LS, this being for the season before our relagation, 2010 - 11. Our figures are missing due to the usual, but you'll see a context:

http://www.thescratchingshed.com/2012/04/championship-clubs-financial-results-2010-11/

Look at those wages!

lordsummerisle said:
Don't think we actually had anything like one of the lowest wage budgets in the league.

Not one for telling stories, but have heard of one player, who came to us from effectively non-league, was on £8000 a week, and he was nothing like close to a "name", since left for nothing of course to lower standard.

Anybody who seriously believed that Eastwood was actually on £1000 a week, after signing for us from Woves for £1.5million, still having a hefty amount of time left on his very lucrative contract with Wolves(who paid around £3million for him) needs their head looking at.

Looking at the figures from the season before the relegation season, LS (the link for the 10/11 season showing only 4 from those declared having a spend of less than £10m); and the listing with figures - where available - for the 11/12 relegation season itself; and then looking at fare such as this (the best we can hope for in light of absent accounts):

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...ews/ken-dulieu-coventry-citys-darkest-3034072

On balance of probability; where do you think our funding stood in the league in that fateful season?

lordsummerisle · Aug 15, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
Yeah - agree - think it was a boxing day or Christmas game but it was a great ball, to Morrison iirc.

Think it was to Mifsud against Blackpool?

Didn't think he was great myself, about the only decent thing i remember from his season with us, mostly he'd receive the ball and then slowly turn in a full circle, getting the ball taken off him around the 180 degree mark.

lordsummerisle · Aug 15, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Looking at the figures from the season before the relegation season, LS (the link for the 10/11 season showing only 4 from those declared having a spend of less than £10m); and the listing with figures - where available - for the 11/12 relegation season itself; and then looking at fare such as this (the best we can hope for in light of absent accounts):

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...ews/ken-dulieu-coventry-citys-darkest-3034072

On balance of probability; where do you think our funding stood in the league in that fateful season?

The problem is all of his figures for player wages are made up(as they are by most of us to be fair).

I think we were probably around the 5th or 6th lowest wage bill the season we got relegated, around about the £8million mark.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Aug 15, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
The problem is all of his figures for player wages are made up(as they are by most of us to be fair).

I think we were probably around the 5th or 6th lowest wage bill the season we got relegated, around about the £8million mark.

The wage bill was cut by Ken Dulieu the season before to just below £8m; and from that squad, Marlon King, Keiren Westwood, Aron Gunnarsson, Michael McIndoe, Lee Carsley, Ben Turner and the like left going into the 11/12 season. I agree, Andy Turner's estimates on salaries are well, guesswork, but it must have depressed the net effect way, way below your estimate - as Orange Ken claims he was below that the season before (his 'City's darkest hour has passed inteviews' in November '11) . I would have guessed somewhere closer to £6m.

Looking at those who could have bee funded less or on a par with us - as others, as you can see are on a wholly different level:

Well, Palace - as per the link - had a level of £9.4m the year before. I don't see any significant movements in their squad that year. Certainly nothing to give rise to -20%+
Peterborough, I would tend to agree with you on; would have been there or thereabouts with us
Barnsley are reported as starting the season with £7.5m, reducing to £6.2m; so again, could be in the same area as us
Doncaster, again were dropping costs, starting on £8m, but trying to reduce
Millwall, again as per link, were paying £8.4m the season before and signed Henderson from Sheffield United, and Keogh from Wolves - both of whom would have been expensive salaries

I see us, Peterborough and Barnsley as the lowest three

ajsccfc · Aug 15, 2013

I'll find that Boozy assist, this is my Everest. I had Clinton Morrison scoring it in my head, but could well be wrong.

henry the wasp · Aug 15, 2013

Sheff wed?

lordsummerisle · Aug 15, 2013

ajsccfc said:
I'll find that Boozy assist, this is my Everest. I had Clinton Morrison scoring it in my head, but could well be wrong.

Could have been, but that would mean he would have done two good things during that season.

RoboCCFC90 · Aug 15, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
At no point did I say 'his team made money on every player'; so your list is irrelevant.

What you can do, if you wish to come back with a thought through response, is to list the players upon who we made a loss. Then net this out against the surplus made on Fox, Dann, Keogh et al. Then tell me to whether my central claim that we - overall - made money in the transfer market as a function of buying well in his tenure is accurate or not. I'll wait, eh?

Okay thought as I was slightly bored I'd answer this. All the Out going from the sales of Dann, Fox, Westwood and the like (All signed by Ranson or came throught the academy) totalled £8,950,000 during Ray Ranson's tenure, however the fees spent on players £5,950,000 (*Roughly) which means there was a total margain of £3,000,000, over this time of Ranson's tenure we paid for 15 players with an actual fee, albeit a transfer fee or a player under the age of 24, however we only sold 6 players to come to this total (Dann, Fox, Best, Gunnar, Jukie and Turner).

(I didn't include the sale of Keogh because this was after the departure of RR, should it matter though to anyone, we sold him reportedly £800,000 and his purchase fee was included in the original figure of players brought in)

ajsccfc · Aug 15, 2013

henry the wasp said:
Sheff wed?

Bingo.

This is the game

"Coventry punished the miss a minute later when Guillaume Beuzelin played a through ball with the outside of his boot to the unmarked Clinton Morrison."

Now to find the video, and then solve the mystery of the murdered widow.

mrtrench · Aug 15, 2013

What we have here is a vicious circle. SISU cuts the player budget - we are relegated - people get pissed off - fewer people attend - revenues fall - SISU cuts the player budget.

So how did it start? It really started with the regime who overspent in the 90s, but in recent history, IMO, SISU bought the club with the sole intention of getting the Ricoh for cheap. When it became obvious that they would not get it they stopped supporting the club - this was the year that we put out the youth team and were relegated from the Championship. So SISU started it. God knows why they won't just leave, but if they stay, mark my words, it will be non-league in three years.

ajsccfc · Aug 15, 2013

Imagine how many 'Conference Tour 2016/17' tees we'll sell.

fernandopartridge · Aug 15, 2013

ajsccfc said:
Imagine how many 'Conference Tour 2016/17' tees we'll sell.

Safe to say that if Shitsu hadn't sold the would-be Premier League top goalscorer Cody McDonald, he'd have taken the Conference by storm.

ajsccfc · Aug 15, 2013

I'm personally bracing myself for when he 'comes back to haunt us' which will definitely because of the cockney Romario-esque talent we foolishly let go and not our leaky defence.

Leon available for transfer (14 Viewers)

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