Lowest crowd since 1962 (3 Viewers)

skybluelee · Jan 16, 2015

I'm used to giving up entire days and spending in excess of £100 to get to home games. I can't believe that I am now so disillusioned that I still haven't committed going to Yeovil next week despite it being only 25 miles away from my house. I never in a million years thought I could ever get to feeling like this about a club I have followed religiously for 32 years.

If die-hards like me (and many others) are starting to give up this then surely the club's very existence is in doubt.

WestEndAgro · Jan 16, 2015

AndreasB said:
Fiasco? it helped get us back to the Ricoh didnt it...more than your bullshit has ever achieved.

So you are saying by attending Sixfields it ACTUALY helped bring us back, and here was me thinking it was non attending, you clown !

The Fiasco comment was regarding your one man protest, how did that go by the way, oh I forgot you didn't do it , youve more hot air than a industrial heater.

Ian1779 · Jan 16, 2015

MichaelCCFC said:
With no one else providing an answer, you really were my last hope for providing even the smallest sign that things will improve under sisu!

Didn't realise we were doing a test Michael?

Someone with your influence can impact on things - by encouraging fans to get up to the Ricoh and support the team.... but you don't want to. It's as simple as that.

And before you start saying that it won't make an impact... neither has anything else you or others have tried to do... and I'm pretty sure you haven't tried this.

Nick · Jan 16, 2015

MichaelCCFC said:
With no one else providing an answer, you really were my last hope for providing even the smallest sign that things will improve under sisu!

Bad echo in here isn't there? You said that already.

Have you been training that sisu out protest group? They have the same tactic of if you say the same thing over.and over then people might just go with it and forget the point

Grendel · Jan 16, 2015

Michael is factually incorrect anyway. There has been no hope since mcginnity asset strip the club at a far greater rate than sisu. He certainly did not have the club and its interest at heart

Ian is correct. The trust and Michael etc should focus on getting fans behind the club while at the same time encouraging a blanket boycott of wasps

The Lurker · Jan 16, 2015

Grendel said:
Michael is factually incorrect anyway. There has been no hope since mcginnity asset strip the club at a far greater rate than sisu. He certainly did not have the club and its interest at heart

Ian is correct. The trust and Michael etc should focus on getting fans behind the club while at the same time encouraging a blanket boycott of wasps

How would a blank boycott of wasps help ccfc? Plus says something when wasps getting twice as many fans as ccfc as I predicted and got laughed at. Sisu are the cancer of this club and that's why the fan numbers are falling.

MichaelCCFC · Jan 16, 2015

The question 'Can anyone offer even the tiniest sign that things will improve under sisu?' has had 75 replies covering 8 pages with 4.7k views - but not a single post with anything that provides a positive answer. I guess that could be read as an answer in itself.

With respect to those calling for more people to go to the Ricoh one way forward would be to address issues raised in the separate thread on ST renewal, and do so as a matter of urgency.

Ian1779 · Jan 16, 2015

MichaelCCFC said:
The question 'Can anyone offer even the tiniest sign that things will improve under sisu?' has had 75 replies covering 8 pages with 4.7k views - but not a single post with anything that provides a positive answer. I guess that could be read as an answer in itself.

With respect to those calling for more people to go to the Ricoh one way forward would be to address issues raised in the separate thread on ST renewal, and do so as a matter of urgency.

Translated to ... Michael's modus operandi is 'SISU OUT' - but won't just come out and admit it.

PS. I think it's just a little patronising for you to come on here and judge the quality of a discussion - especially when you have perfected the art of ignoring the inconvenient question.

skybluetony176 · Jan 16, 2015

I wonder what effect the AL revelations are going to have on our crowds? I recon it will be below 2000 because she lied. Curse you AL and the rest off your croanies, you've killed our club (shakes fist in anger).

AndreasB · Jan 16, 2015

WestEndAgro said:
So you are saying by attending Sixfields it ACTUALY helped bring us back, and here was me thinking it was non attending, you clown !

The Fiasco comment was regarding your one man protest, how did that go by the way, oh I forgot you didn't do it , youve more hot air than a industrial heater.

Yes and you know its true. We kept the flame alive so the club could come back to a full house at the Ricoh every week like you promised because you luurved the City so much.
Might as well not have bothered.

bigfatronssba · Jan 16, 2015

Grendel said:
Michael is factually incorrect anyway. There has been no hope since mcginnity asset strip the club at a far greater rate than sisu. He certainly did not have the club and its interest at heart

Ian is correct. The trust and Michael etc should focus on getting fans behind the club while at the same time encouraging a blanket boycott of wasps

And that will help our club how?

bigfatronssba · Jan 16, 2015

Ian1779 said:
Translated to ... Michael's modus operandi is 'SISU OUT' - but won't just come out and admit it.

PS. I think it's just a little patronising for you to come on here and judge the quality of a discussion - especially when you have perfected the art of ignoring the inconvenient question.

Surely we all want Sisu out?

No one likes or supports them apparently.

Ian1779 · Jan 16, 2015

bigfatronssba said:
Surely we all want Sisu out?

No one likes or supports them apparently.

No what most rational people want is a better alternative to replace them. Not just them out and we go to the wall 2 weeks later as we have no money.

Until someone appears to do just that they are here.

bigfatronssba · Jan 16, 2015

Ian1779 said:
No what most rational people want is a better alternative to replace them. Not just them out and we go to the wall 2 weeks later as we have no money.

Until someone appears to do just that they are here.

I find it difficult to believe that any alternative owners could be worse to the most incompetent people in the FL.

Ian1779 · Jan 16, 2015

bigfatronssba said:
I find it difficult to believe that any alternative owners could be worse to the most incompetent people in the FL.

Doesn't solve the problem of no stadium or revenue streams. You expect a new owner to throw money down the drain I take it.

chiefdave · Jan 16, 2015

MichaelCCFC said:
The question 'Can anyone offer even the tiniest sign that things will improve under sisu?' has had 75 replies covering 8 pages with 4.7k views - but not a single post with anything that provides a positive answer. I guess that could be read as an answer in itself.

I think there's a real danger that with the council selling the stadium to Wasps not only can things not improve under SISU, it will be near impossible for any other owner to achieve success unless they are willing to but in millions with no return.

Even with the crowds as low as they are we should, even running at break even, be able to get out of this division. But where from there? We've seen the figures showing how low are revenue was when previously playing in the championship in front of decent crowds. Wasps aren't going to hand over the revenues we need so what can any owner do? Build a new stadium I guess is the answer but how is that going to be financed. The future, SISU or no SISU, looks very bleak to me.

jas365 · Jan 16, 2015

chiefdave said:
I think there's a real danger that with the council selling the stadium to Wasps not only can things not improve under SISU, it will be near impossible for any other owner to achieve success unless they are willing to but in millions with no return.

Even with the crowds as low as they are we should, even running at break even, be able to get out of this division. But where from there? We've seen the figures showing how low are revenue was when previously playing in the championship in front of decent crowds. Wasps aren't going to hand over the revenues we need so what can any owner do? Build a new stadium I guess is the answer but how is that going to be financed. The future, SISU or no SISU, looks very bleak to me.

I would say there are several things new owners could do to improve where we find ourselves now. It needs a number of factors coming together to do it, but I wouldn't say it's beyond impossible.

Generally a well run business off the field over time filters down to the end product, it would be hard to find any other owner who could run things as badly as they are now. You get the right people in at the top end, who have the clubs interest at heart, with good PR, and some of the fans staying away would start to come back. That would at least be a start.

The face of the club - let's face it, Fisher has been a total disaster (as was Delieu, Labovitch, Brody et al). Get someone in who fronts the club positively, someone we can relate to. Again, fans are more likely to get on board than they are now.

Contracts - I've said for a long time now that the current policy is very short term-ism. When was the last time we signed a player on a 3 year contract? Most of our players are on 12 month deals, and every summer we have to rebuild a new squad after the inevitable mass exodus. We should be trying to construct a squad that will develop over several years and give us a platform. Admittedly this would be more costly, but it could be done at this level without spending millions.

Although the stadium problem is still an issue, it's better than it was pre-Sixfields. The rent is lower and we have a larger share of income streams. the biggest thing that will bring fans back is success, I don't us being even remotely successful under SISU - if anything I can see it getting worse.

I don't think new owners would have to spend a vast fortune to get us back to Championship level, and then at least you'd be moving in the right direction. It's about buying into a vision and philosophy of a club, and I don't think that will ever be possible under SISU - the damage is done, there is too much bad blood.

chiefdave · Jan 16, 2015

jas365 said:
Generally a well run business off the field over time filters down to the end product, it would be hard to find any other owner who could run things as badly as they are now. You get the right people in at the top end, who have the clubs interest at heart, with good PR, and some of the fans staying away would start to come back. That would at least be a start.

But what are you considering a well run business. If and when we reach championship level we're competing with teams who have owners who are happy to lose millions, not to mention teams who have parachute payments. A well run business is surely one that isn't losing money, isn't this SISU's stated aim currently and what caused us to be relegated to L1 in the first place.

If you look at the comparative revenues of Championship clubs when we were last playing there we had one of the lowest revenues despite good attendance figures. How can that be changed now Wasps own the right to all revenues generated by the Ricoh?

Nick · Jan 16, 2015

jas365 said:
I would say there are several things new owners could do to improve where we find ourselves now. It needs a number of factors coming together to do it, but I wouldn't say it's beyond impossible.

Generally a well run business off the field over time filters down to the end product, it would be hard to find any other owner who could run things as badly as they are now. You get the right people in at the top end, who have the clubs interest at heart, with good PR, and some of the fans staying away would start to come back. That would at least be a start.

The face of the club - let's face it, Fisher has been a total disaster (as was Delieu, Labovitch, Brody et al). Get someone in who fronts the club positively, someone we can relate to. Again, fans are more likely to get on board than they are now.

Contracts - I've said for a long time now that the current policy is very short term-ism. When was the last time we signed a player on a 3 year contract? Most of our players are on 12 month deals, and every summer we have to rebuild a new squad after the inevitable mass exodus. We should be trying to construct a squad that will develop over several years and give us a platform. Admittedly this would be more costly, but it could be done at this level without spending millions.

Although the stadium problem is still an issue, it's better than it was pre-Sixfields. The rent is lower and we have a larger share of income streams. the biggest thing that will bring fans back is success, I don't us being even remotely successful under SISU - if anything I can see it getting worse.

I don't think new owners would have to spend a vast fortune to get us back to Championship level, and then at least you'd be moving in the right direction. It's about buying into a vision and philosophy of a club, and I don't think that will ever be possible under SISU - the damage is done, there is too much bad blood.

Signed a player on a 3 and a half year contract in November

jas365 · Jan 16, 2015

chiefdave said:
But what are you considering a well run business. If and when we reach championship level we're competing with teams who have owners who are happy to lose millions, not to mention teams who have parachute payments. A well run business is surely one that isn't losing money, isn't this SISU's stated aim currently and what caused us to be relegated to L1 in the first place.

If you look at the comparative revenues of Championship clubs when we were last playing there we had one of the lowest revenues despite good attendance figures. How can that be changed now Wasps own the right to all revenues generated by the Ricoh?

Bournemouth and Brentford seem to be doing ok? I didn't think clubs in the Championship could just throw millions at it now due to FFP?

In my lifetime (and most fans I suspect) we have had no success bar one little blip nearly 30 years ago. Just imagine what it would do for the fan base with 2 season like they have just had? There's no reason why we wouldn't get 20-25,000 every week if we were at the top of the table. It's all about different smaller elements coming together to build a bigger picture.

I just don't believe its impossible to build a (moderately) successful club if it's well run, with fans on their side and a bit of investment.

jas365 · Jan 16, 2015

Nick said:
Signed a player on a 3 and a half year contract in November

One player

Nick · Jan 16, 2015

jas365 said:
One player

That is what you asked isn't it?

jas365 · Jan 16, 2015

Nick said:
That is what you asked isn't it?

I'm talking about contract policy in general, signing one player is hardly helping to build a long term squad is it? Nearly every player we sign is on 12-18 months and pisses off the next summer.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 16, 2015

jas365 said:
Bournemouth and Brentford seem to be doing ok? I didn't think clubs in the Championship could just throw millions at it now due to FFP?

Bournemouth have a filthy rich Russian mentalist in charge.

http://www.theguardian.com/football...-fa-cup-liverpool-demin-russian-invisible-man

MichaelCCFC · Jan 16, 2015

chiefdave said:
I think there's a real danger that with the council selling the stadium to Wasps not only can things not improve under SISU, it will be near impossible for any other owner to achieve success unless they are willing to but in millions with no return.

Even with the crowds as low as they are we should, even running at break even, be able to get out of this division. But where from there? We've seen the figures showing how low are revenue was when previously playing in the championship in front of decent crowds. Wasps aren't going to hand over the revenues we need so what can any owner do? Build a new stadium I guess is the answer but how is that going to be financed. The future, SISU or no SISU, looks very bleak to me.

Agree, which is one of the practical as well as principled reasons for opposing the wasps deal. But position from this thread is no one is saying things will get better under sisu. The facts of the matter point to on-going decline under the business model they've now got. If all that sisu's ownership offers is a slow death that isn't a future at all. If sisu could be persuaded to go on the basis of getting payments upon ccfc getting into the championship and more substantially on getting to the Prem - with those sums being far greater than what they can currently squeeze out of us and no one is going to pay anything significant to sisu upfront because ccfc is a worthless asset - new ownership would open up options for increased attendances, better merchandising, investment from those with more money through vice presidents schemes and the like, and from a position of dismissing new stadium bs and with far greater strength then negotiations with wasps would be on a very different footing. If you start creating a bit of momentum then other investors will come on board as has been shown at other clubs. Choice seems to be between a slow death and trying something different which at least offers a bit of hope (and at worst the same fate as sisu offer).

chiefdave · Jan 16, 2015

I can see your point that if the future is a slow death then when not try anything else as it can't be any worse. For me we need to see a serious potential new owner make clear their intentions publicly. Should that happen, and their plans stand up to scrutiny, I think there would be a lot of momentum behind any action to force SISU to sell up. Until then I can't see much changing.

MichaelCCFC · Jan 16, 2015

chiefdave said:
I can see your point that if the future is a slow death then when not try anything else as it can't be any worse. For me we need to see a serious potential new owner make clear their intentions publicly. Should that happen, and their plans stand up to scrutiny, I think there would be a lot of momentum behind any action to force SISU to sell up. Until then I can't see much changing.

With absolutely no one saying 'yes, we have a positive future under sisu' and lots of posts saying people won't renew STs, record low crowd on Monday etc, the slow death scenario seems highly plausible. That scenario then changes the onus from 'justify a change and show it's going to work' to 'justify not changing because otherwise all we are being offered is slow death which is no future at all'.

cloughie · Jan 16, 2015

the 3 of us ST holders did not go either

skybluefred · Jan 16, 2015

chiefdave said:
I can see your point that if the future is a slow death then when not try anything else as it can't be any worse. For me we need to see a serious potential new owner make clear their intentions publicly. Should that happen, and their plans stand up to scrutiny, I think there would be a lot of momentum behind any action to force SISU to sell up. Until then I can't see much changing.

Sorry but nobody can FORCE sisu to sell up. Remember they are a bloody minded hedge fund who batter people.
The only chance would be for the FL to grow a pair and remove the Golden Share, because of the obvious threat
of Court action that is highly unlikely.

We just have to grin and bear it i'm afraid.

cloughie · Jan 16, 2015

AndreasB said:
Fiasco? it helped get us back to the Ricoh didnt it...more than your bullshit has ever achieved.

You are hilarious you did fuck all to get us back to the ricoh ....you are certainly warped in some way

Nick · Jan 16, 2015

cloughie said:
You are hilarious you did fuck all to get us back to the ricoh ....you are certainly warped in some way

Why what did you do?

cloughie · Jan 16, 2015

Nick said:
Why what did you do?

Like the the majority I did not go.............but I'm sure you think that had no effect

Nick · Jan 16, 2015

cloughie said:
Like the the majority I did not go.............but I'm sure you think that had no effect

I'm saying nothing, you just carry on patting yourself on the back and acting like a hero

chiefdave · Jan 16, 2015

MichaelCCFC said:
With absolutely no one saying 'yes, we have a positive future under sisu' and lots of posts saying people won't renew STs, record low crowd on Monday etc, the slow death scenario seems highly plausible. That scenario then changes the onus from 'justify a change and show it's going to work' to 'justify not changing because otherwise all we are being offered is slow death which is no future at all'.

Not sure about that as the flip side is somehow force SISU out and go into administration with no one interested in buying us, is a slow death better than a quick one?

I don't think anyone who had made a serious attempt to buy the club and had been turned away would have an issue with going public, and by going public it galvanises support, just look at the way PH4 was welcomed!

chiefdave · Jan 16, 2015

skybluefred said:
Sorry but nobody can FORCE sisu to sell up.

I agree it is highly unlikely we can persuade SISU to walk away but if it was known that there was a serious takeover bid on the table I think you would see fans unite behind it. I can't see any hope of uniting fans behind the unknown.

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