Meet Wasps Tonight And Ask Your Questions (1 Viewer)

martcov · Dec 1, 2014

Colin1883 said:
Who contacted who about the Ricoh being for 'sale'... Did the wasps ask or were they offered?

Does it really matter now? Apart from academic interest of course. The main point is what will our relationship be to Wasps? Yes, I know landlord and tenant, but will it be a good and constructive relationship, or as with the last landlords, a constant wrestling match?

The Ricoh was in effect put up for sale when the then tenants said we are going to build our own stadium -"we are not bluffing".

Being as they had also spent a year in a lesser stadium to prove what they are capable of, and then carried on with the JR against part of the landlords, it was obvious to a blind man that there was a perfectly good stadium complex with 365 day revenue situated in a medium sized English city, conveniently located in the centre of the country with excellent road and rail links to most of the country, including London and Birmingham, and soon to get it's own station, just waiting for a new tenant or leasehold owner.

Only absolute tossers would not have grabbed that one-off opportunity to get a top entertainment and exhibition complex at a distressed price. Even AEG were at one time interested in running it.

Pity we don't have owners who see these opportunities. Still, with all their court cases, they probably don't have time for that sort of thing.

Paxman II · Dec 1, 2014

That's nice and concise Mat and all those things are true but for one. Were SISU/CCFC offered the same opportunity before the council sought out WASP? Were they offered the same 250 year lease for the same price/conditions?

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 1, 2014

martcov said:
Does it really matter now? Apart from academic interest of course. The main point is what will our relationship be to Wasps? Yes, I know landlord and tenant, but will it be a good and constructive relationship, or as with the last landlords, a constant wrestling match?

The Ricoh was in effect put up for sale when the then tenants said we are going to build our own stadium -"we are not bluffing".

Being as they had also spent a year in a lesser stadium to prove what they are capable of, and then carried on with the JR against part of the landlords, it was obvious to a blind man that there was a perfectly good stadium complex with 365 day revenue situated in a medium sized English city, conveniently located in the centre of the country with excellent road and rail links to most of the country, including London and Birmingham, and soon to get it's own station, just waiting for a new tenant or leasehold owner.

Only absolute tossers would not have grabbed that one-off opportunity to get a top entertainment and exhibition complex at a distressed price. Even AEG were at one time interested in running it.

Pity we don't have owners who see these opportunities. Still, with all their court cases, they probably don't have time for that sort of thing.

A bit like someone sprinting 3/4 the length of the pitch, beating all of the opposition at least 2 or 3 times each, to get through 1 on 1 with the keeper...then standing still and letting him pick it up.

dongonzalos · Dec 1, 2014

Paxman II said:
That's nice and concise Mat and all those things are true but for one. Were SISU/CCFC offered the same opportunity before the council sought out WASP? Were they offered the same 250 year lease for the same price/conditions?

They were offered numerous opportunities to make a proposal of their own. They were even given a deadline by which to make it.
Their reply freehold or nothing

duffer · Dec 1, 2014

Steve.B50 said:
Thats a decent question, will try and get that one over.

You can try, but I'll tell you the answer. NDA.

If you want a few questions Steve, try these.

Are Wasps likely to allow CCFC to buy a share in ACL in the next few years, or do they require all of the income generated by ACL to keep the rugby club afloat?

If a stadium deal became available in London, would Wasps look to move back?

How are Wasps going to move their academy to Coventry, given the likely objections of the surrounding clubs and the RFU? Further to this, where will the substantial training centre be built?

How long is it plausible to give thousands of free tickets away to swell the crowd?

What's the break even for Wasps in terms of attendance?

Are Wasps really kicking CCFC out of the home dressing room?

Can he understand that a number of CCFC fans want nothing to do with Wasps, and will actively boycott everything to do with Wasps and ACL in the hope that the Wasps franchise fails here in Coventry?

I wouldn't wish to be rude Steve - but as a member of the trust I hope you can challenge Mr Eastwood as robustly as you've challenged Tim Fisher. At the very least, please try to look at his answers a bit more critically than CCC!

duffer · Dec 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
They were offered numerous opportunities to make a proposal of their own. They were even given a deadline by which to make it.
Their reply freehold or nothing

Were they offered 100% of ACL and a 250-year leashold for circa £5.5m? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Dec 1, 2014

Steve.B50 said:
Thats a decent question, will try and get that one over.

Can I just ask exactly how long is this meeting,only I have to be at work tomorrow at 7.30?

ccfctommy · Dec 1, 2014

The Gentleman said:
I wonder how many posters on this thread (I know not all live either in or near Coventry) will be sitting there tonight posting endless shite about Wasps when they could of got up off their lazy arses to actually go to the meeting and ask the questions they raised them fucking selves. All the crap that is getting laid at Wasps door and this is mostly from the splinter arsed balanced ones who never threw shit at Sisu because everyone else did. Now though, certain posters are all to willing to put the fucking boot it to a rugby club who have relocated a team but weren't so vocal when Sisu fucking did it. Where were these fans when people were constantly slating Sisu, I'll tell you, some were fucking sat at Sixfields but now all of a sudden they are up in arms about a game that doesn't even concern CCFC and how they will never set foot in the Ricoh at a Wasps game. Some say they will start watching CRFC but would there be a chance when the two could meet, what would people do then. Would we get the hypocrites chants from certain sections.

I love the way people want Wasps to do badly and go out of business but yet I've never heard that from some of the same people about Sisu and their businesses. All this has done is allow some to switch their anger from ACL/CCC to Wasps, when the real wankers in this whole charade are still Sisu. Bet Sisu are loving the fact that whilst this all goes on and people are up in arms about it, no-one is actually asking them what their plans are, why they didn't move sooner on the Ricoh, where is this new stadium because they actually fucking own us and not Wasps.

I couldn't care a fuck whether Wasps do well or not but I'm not bitter enough to want to watch professional sportsman fail just because the owners of our club were to inept at actually buying into something that turned out to be pretty easy.

But hey-ho, I'll look forward to reading endless pages of shite about Wasps tonight and how they plan to fuck us over the first chance they get when in actual fact the same people are fucking clueless and don't know, the same as everyone else. But they will still sit There posting about it rather than actually going to the meeting tonight to try and find out themselves.

Because if SISU go out of business that will involve the club going out of business.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 1, 2014

The Gentleman said:
I wonder how many posters on this thread (I know not all live either in or near Coventry) will be sitting there tonight posting endless shite about Wasps when they could of got up off their lazy arses to actually go to the meeting and ask the questions they raised them fucking selves.

To address this directly, Mondays aren't exactly a fabulous day for me. It's a work from home day which, on the one hand, allows me to post shit on a message board while I break things but, also, means I have to basically fix what I break by Tuesday. This tends to restrict movement a little...

But yes, the general point is fair. I have been a couple of times to Trust meetings, was kind of relieved when one proposal ended up parked as I didn't really fancy arguing against it.

Incidentally, had SISU taken CCFC away permanently then yep, too right I'd want them out of business, the same as I still want MK Dons to fail. It's the deterrant you see; the more times it's legitimised and succeeds, the more likely it is it happens again and again and again and again...

And with the Speedway stadium sold, I'm frankly running out of options of teams to support!

Rugby Town it is, then(!)

skybluetony176 · Dec 1, 2014

The Gentleman said:
I wonder how many posters on this thread (I know not all live either in or near Coventry) will be sitting there tonight posting endless shite about Wasps when they could of got up off their lazy arses to actually go to the meeting and ask the questions they raised them fucking selves. All the crap that is getting laid at Wasps door and this is mostly from the splinter arsed balanced ones who never threw shit at Sisu because everyone else did. Now though, certain posters are all to willing to put the fucking boot it to a rugby club who have relocated a team but weren't so vocal when Sisu fucking did it. Where were these fans when people were constantly slating Sisu, I'll tell you, some were fucking sat at Sixfields but now all of a sudden they are up in arms about a game that doesn't even concern CCFC and how they will never set foot in the Ricoh at a Wasps game. Some say they will start watching CRFC but would there be a chance when the two could meet, what would people do then. Would we get the hypocrites chants from certain sections.

I love the way people want Wasps to do badly and go out of business but yet I've never heard that from some of the same people about Sisu and their businesses. All this has done is allow some to switch their anger from ACL/CCC to Wasps, when the real wankers in this whole charade are still Sisu. Bet Sisu are loving the fact that whilst this all goes on and people are up in arms about it, no-one is actually asking them what their plans are, why they didn't move sooner on the Ricoh, where is this new stadium because they actually fucking own us and not Wasps.

I couldn't care a fuck whether Wasps do well or not but I'm not bitter enough to want to watch professional sportsman fail just because the owners of our club were to inept at actually buying into something that turned out to be pretty easy.

But hey-ho, I'll look forward to reading endless pages of shite about Wasps tonight and how they plan to fuck us over the first chance they get when in actual fact the same people are fucking clueless and don't know, the same as everyone else. But they will still sit There posting about it rather than actually going to the meeting tonight to try and find out themselves.

Nail on head

dongonzalos · Dec 1, 2014

duffer said:
Were they offered 100% of ACL and a 250-year leashold for circa £5.5m? A simple yes or no will suffice.

They were asked to put a sensible offer in.
They said freehold or nothing.

If they had submitted that bid and it was declined I could accept that point.

They just said freehold or nothing and let the deadline pass then something else buzzed in.

It's our owners fault I am afraid.

oldfiver · Dec 1, 2014

The Gentleman said:
I wonder how many posters on this thread (I know not all live either in or near Coventry) will be sitting there tonight posting endless shite about Wasps when they could of got up off their lazy arses to actually go to the meeting and ask the questions they raised them fucking selves. All the crap that is getting laid at Wasps door and this is mostly from the splinter arsed balanced ones who never threw shit at Sisu because everyone else did. Now though, certain posters are all to willing to put the fucking boot it to a rugby club who have relocated a team but weren't so vocal when Sisu fucking did it. Where were these fans when people were constantly slating Sisu, I'll tell you, some were fucking sat at Sixfields but now all of a sudden they are up in arms about a game that doesn't even concern CCFC and how they will never set foot in the Ricoh at a Wasps game. Some say they will start watching CRFC but would there be a chance when the two could meet, what would people do then. Would we get the hypocrites chants from certain sections.

I love the way people want Wasps to do badly and go out of business but yet I've never heard that from some of the same people about Sisu and their businesses. All this has done is allow some to switch their anger from ACL/CCC to Wasps, when the real wankers in this whole charade are still Sisu. Bet Sisu are loving the fact that whilst this all goes on and people are up in arms about it, no-one is actually asking them what their plans are, why they didn't move sooner on the Ricoh, where is this new stadium because they actually fucking own us and not Wasps.

I couldn't care a fuck whether Wasps do well or not but I'm not bitter enough to want to watch professional sportsman fail just because the owners of our club were to inept at actually buying into something that turned out to be pretty easy.

But hey-ho, I'll look forward to reading endless pages of shite about Wasps tonight and how they plan to fuck us over the first chance they get when in actual fact the same people are fucking clueless and don't know, the same as everyone else. But they will still sit There posting about it rather than actually going to the meeting tonight to try and find out themselves.

Unfortunately I am having to work tonight however I wish good luck to those asking the questions - and look forward with interest at seeing the responses ( if any )

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
They were asked to put a sensible offer in.
They said freehold or nothing.

If they had submitted that bid and it was declined I could accept that point.

They just said freehold or nothing and let the deadline pass then something else buzzed in.

It's our owners fault I am afraid.

How come SISU are not allowed to shift from a 'freehold or nothing' position, yet CCC are allowed to shift from a 'we will not sell to SISU, and will not help the club while a hedge fund is involved' position?

skybluetony176 · Dec 1, 2014

ccfctommy said:
Because if SISU go out of business that will involve the club going out of business.

Only if someone doesn't want to buy Otium from the SISU administrator.

Would SISU going bust actually be the best way forward for CCFC? Surely it would be the best way of offloading the "debt" especially if ARVO went bump too as a direct result of SISU going bump.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 1, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
Only if someone doesn't want to buy Otium from the SISU administrator.

Would SISU going bust actually be the best way forward for CCFC? Surely it would be the best way of offloading the "debt" especially if ARVO went bump too as a direct result of SISU going bump.

CCFC going bust could well be the best way forward for SISU...

Bust and into oblivion. Discount it as a threat at your peril for, to not acknowledge it's a very real threat, might bring you a nasty shock...

oldfiver · Dec 1, 2014

italiahorse said:
Probably something to do with needing a stadium over 15,000 for their European games.

BPA could be developed to hold 15000+

However CCC gave promises to Cov RFC they would be the only senior rugby club in town when the new owners took it out of Receivership. :claping hands:

Good at keeping promises CCC !!!

martcov · Dec 1, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
How come SISU are not allowed to shift from a 'freehold or nothing' position, yet CCC are allowed to shift from a 'we will not sell to SISU, and will not help the club while a hedge fund is involved' position?

Maybe because they held the trump card - the stadium. I think SISU should have realised this and changed their tactic. But there again, I want CCFC to acheive sporting success and am not interested in Joy's family or her investors - according to her the main priorities.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 1, 2014

martcov said:
Maybe because they held the trump card - the stadium. I think SISU should have realised this and changed their tactic. But there again, I want CCFC to acheive sporting success and am not interested in Joy's family or her investors - according to her the main priorities.

The point being, there is documented evidence of SISU retreating quickly from the freehold or nothing position, such as here:

Mark Labovitch said:
There comes a point though where a really long lease is essentially a freehold.

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/coventry_city_scg_meeting_minutes_822114/index.shtml

So, if CCC are allowed to mellow from a 'we won't go near SISU' why aren't the club allowed to mellow equally?

The freehold or nowt is a red herring.

Danceswithhorses · Dec 1, 2014

The Gentleman said:
I couldn't care a fuck whether Wasps do well or not but I'm not bitter enough to want to watch professional sportsman fail just because the owners of our club were too inept at actually buying into something that turned out to be pretty easy.

Spot on-my thoughts exactly

Tonylinc · Dec 1, 2014

I predict that within the next few months Wasps will make an offer for CCFC.........

skybluetony176 · Dec 1, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
The point being, there is documented evidence of SISU retreating quickly from the freehold or nothing position, such as here:

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/coventry_city_scg_meeting_minutes_822114/index.shtml

So, if CCC are allowed to mellow from a 'we won't go near SISU' why aren't the club allowed to mellow equally?

The freehold or nowt is a red herring.

ML said alot of things. I'm glad you're brave enough to start picking through them and deciding what was fact and what was fiction, err sorry, I mean misquoted.

I'm not

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 1, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
CCFC going bust could well be the best way forward for SISU...

Bust and into oblivion. Discount it as a threat at your peril for, to not acknowledge it's a very real threat, might bring you a nasty shock...

Except for crystallising a £50m loss.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 1, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
ML said alot of things. I'm glad you're brave enough to start picking through them and deciding what was fact and what was fiction, err sorry, I mean misquoted.

I'm not

The point being, it works both ways.

CCC seem to get a remarkably free ride, wheree everything they utter is said to be the truth... despite duffer running a one-man campaign to point out the inconsistencies.

Tonylinc · Dec 1, 2014

Lets just cut out all this crap..........the only question is.......could you have dealt with Shitzu???????

Godiva · Dec 1, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
CCFC going bust could well be the best way forward for SISU...

Bust and into oblivion. Discount it as a threat at your peril for, to not acknowledge it's a very real threat, might bring you a nasty shock...

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Except for crystallising a £50m loss.

The club is Otium with a debt level to ARVO around £10m-12m.
The major debts BSB refer to is with SBS&L - and the majority of that debt is historical and not from money put in by Sisu.

Otium can fold while SBS&L move into another sisu controlled group and be used to eliminate tax payments.

The club going out of existence doesn't necessarily mean sisu have to crystalize (write off) a major loss.

skybluefred · Dec 1, 2014

stupot07 said:
Do they feel any guilt of stealing ccfc stadium?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

That's news, I didn't know CCFC had a stadium to steal.

duffer · Dec 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
They were asked to put a sensible offer in.
They said freehold or nothing.

If they had submitted that bid and it was declined I could accept that point.

They just said freehold or nothing and let the deadline pass then something else buzzed in.

It's our owners fault I am afraid.

When were they asked to put an offer in then? It's just that on our return from Northampton the council quite clearly said that it was time to rebuild trust before talking about ownership.

In the meantime, could you answer the question please - it's a really, really easy one. I'm not making a point, I'm asking a straight question - you're the one dodging it by trying to make a point...

So, were the club offered 100% of ACL and 250-years on the lease for around £5.5 million - yes or no?

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Dec 1, 2014

duffer said:
When were they asked to put an offer in then? It's just that on our return from Northampton the council quite clearly said that it was time to rebuild trust before talking about ownership.

In the meantime, could you answer the question please - it's a really, really easy one. I'm not making a point, I'm asking a straight question - you're the one dodging it by trying to make a point...

So, were the club offered 100% of ACL and 250-years on the lease for around £5.5 million - yes or no?

But didn't Fisher greet the former with the riposte of 'neah, we're building new'? I'm happy to check, but I'm sure he did. I remember thinking what repeated stupidity it was at the time

Nick · Dec 1, 2014

duffer said:
When were they asked to put an offer in then? It's just that on our return from Northampton the council quite clearly said that it was time to rebuild trust before talking about ownership.

In the meantime, could you answer the question please - it's a really, really easy one. I'm not making a point, I'm asking a straight question - you're the one dodging it by trying to make a point...

So, were the club offered 100% of ACL and 250-years on the lease for around £5.5 million - yes or no?

The council invited them to make an offer also (publicly) knowing full well it wasn't going to happen.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Dec 1, 2014

Nick said:
The council invited them to make an offer also (publicly) knowing full well it wasn't going to happen.

Which time? The last one? Was that the council 'inviting' them?

Tonylinc · Dec 1, 2014

At the end of the day it was down to Shitzu to make the offer which surprise surprise they failed to do so.

duffer · Dec 1, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
Nail on head

Lazy rubbish, more like. When did I ever give SISU an easy ride?

Like a lot of people here, you're thinking that because SISU lost everything about this is OK. Now you're even pretending that the only people against this are pro-SISU. That's utter bollocks, admit it.

To get one over on SISU there are people willing to do all sorts of moral gymnastics to enable them to support exactly what they hated when it happened to us, a club being taken away from it's fans. This despite the fact that it permanently closes the door to the club owning the Ricoh, regardless of who owns CCFC in the future (unless perhaps it's the franchise rugby team).

duffer · Dec 1, 2014

Tonylinc said:
At the end of the day it was down to Shitzu to make the offer which surprise surprise they failed to do so.

After being told it was time to rebuild trust rather than talk about ownership. Regardless of what happened before Northampton, there's some convenient rewriting of recent history going on here.

Grendel · Dec 1, 2014

duffer said:
Lazy rubbish, more like. When did I ever give SISU an easy ride?

Like a lot of people here, you're thinking that because SISU lost everything about this is OK. Now you're even pretending that the only people against this are pro-SISU. That's utter bollocks, admit it.

To get one over on SISU there are people willing to do all sorts of moral gymnastics to enable them to support exactly what they hated when it happened to us, a club being taken away from it's fans. This despite the fact that it permanently closes the door to the club owning the Ricoh, regardless of who owns CCFC in the future (unless perhaps it's the franchise rugby team).

You are wasting you breath - the absurdity of some on here is they will excuse anything - the sanctioning of franchise sport and the death of CCFC - as long as sisu and seppella and fisher especially get a bloody nose.

skybluefred · Dec 1, 2014

duffer said:
When were they asked to put an offer in then? It's just that on our return from Northampton the council quite clearly said that it was time to rebuild trust before talking about ownership.

In the meantime, could you answer the question please - it's a really, really easy one. I'm not making a point, I'm asking a straight question - you're the one dodging it by trying to make a point...

So, were the club offered 100% of ACL and 250-years on the lease for around £5.5 million - yes or no?

I doubt anybody could know the answer to that question..I would have thought that an offer or statement of intent would
needed to have been made to CCC for them to know anybody was interested. All CCC kept hearing from sisu was we are
building a new 15,000 seater stadium.

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