Midfield problems - is there a solution? (1 Viewer)

Gibbo · Oct 4, 2018

Here is an argument;
The teams problems are now all in the midfield. Injuries notwithstanding everywhere else is relatively settled. So we don’t like Willis at right back but it will do pro tem

Here are the problems in midfield:
· Doyle is now too old to be the only defensive minded central midfielder
· Robins values Doyle’s leadership qualities so highly he selects himself
· Bayliss has been less creative going forward and is poor at tracking back
· Shipley is most likely to be replaced by JJ quite soon
· A side with Thomas and JJ (and Bayliss and Doyle) in midfield is vulnerable in defence
· Ogogo and Kelly have not yet done enough to warrant automatic inclusion
· Andreu is highly skilled but we appear to have no obvious slot for him
· While we find our feet, two defensive midfielders might be smart

Here are the options
RW Thomas or Bayliss
CM (2 places) Bayliss, Kelly, Ogogo, Doyle, and Andreu
LW JJ (Shipley in reserve)

We have too many options and none of them is perfect.
Personally I lean to (eventually) Bayliss – Kelly – Ogogo - Jones,
I would start by putting Bayliss back on the right and bringing back one of Kelly or Ogogo alongside Doyle.

Ideas on a postcard to M Robins, c/o The Ricoh, Coventry

djr8369 · Oct 4, 2018

Gibbo said:
Here is an argument;
The teams problems are now all in the midfield. Injuries notwithstanding everywhere else is relatively settled. So we don’t like Willis at right back but it will do pro tem

Here are the problems in midfield:
· Doyle is now too old to be the only defensive minded central midfielder
· Robins values Doyle’s leadership qualities so highly he selects himself
· Bayliss has been less creative going forward and is poor at tracking back
· Shipley is most likely to be replaced by JJ quite soon
· A side with Thomas and JJ (and Bayliss and Doyle) in midfield is vulnerable in defence
· Ogogo and Kelly have not yet done enough to warrant automatic inclusion
· Andreu is highly skilled but we appear to have no obvious slot for him
· While we find our feet, two defensive midfielders might be smart

Here are the options
RW Thomas or Bayliss
CM (2 places) Bayliss, Kelly, Ogogo, Doyle, and Andreu
LW JJ (Shipley in reserve)

We have too many options and none of them is perfect.
Personally I lean to (eventually) Bayliss – Kelly – Ogogo - Jones,
I would start by putting Bayliss back on the right and bringing back one of Kelly or Ogogo alongside Doyle.

Ideas on a postcard to M Robins, c/o The Ricoh, Coventry

That would be my preferred option too if Kelly and Ogogo can get their fitness up to decent levels. Doyle can still be rotated and I think Thomas would be better as an impact sub.

However, I don’t think Doyle will be dropped and I think if he was we would miss him unless Ogogo can be the leader.

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SkyBlueCRJ · Oct 4, 2018

Gibbo said:
Here is an argument;
The teams problems are now all in the midfield. Injuries notwithstanding everywhere else is relatively settled. So we don’t like Willis at right back but it will do pro tem

Here are the problems in midfield:
· Doyle is now too old to be the only defensive minded central midfielder
· Robins values Doyle’s leadership qualities so highly he selects himself
· Bayliss has been less creative going forward and is poor at tracking back
· Shipley is most likely to be replaced by JJ quite soon
· A side with Thomas and JJ (and Bayliss and Doyle) in midfield is vulnerable in defence
· Ogogo and Kelly have not yet done enough to warrant automatic inclusion
· Andreu is highly skilled but we appear to have no obvious slot for him
· While we find our feet, two defensive midfielders might be smart

Here are the options
RW Thomas or Bayliss
CM (2 places) Bayliss, Kelly, Ogogo, Doyle, and Andreu
LW JJ (Shipley in reserve)

We have too many options and none of them is perfect.
Personally I lean to (eventually) Bayliss – Kelly – Ogogo - Jones,
I would start by putting Bayliss back on the right and bringing back one of Kelly or Ogogo alongside Doyle.

Ideas on a postcard to M Robins, c/o The Ricoh, Coventry

You can lean all you like but until Ogogo, Kelly and jones stop puffing wind after 30 mins we're buggered

covcity4life · Oct 4, 2018

would give this a go next game

thomas on left, jones on right,both cutting in
kelly and agogo in middle. both defensive to cover for more threat on both wings instead of one

Otis · Oct 4, 2018

covcity4life said:
would give this a go next game

thomas on left, jones on right,both cutting in
kelly and agogo in middle. both defensive to cover for more threat on both wings instead of one

Not sure that Ogogo and Kelly could even cover a budgie cage with a tea towel at the moment to be honest.

stupot07 · Oct 4, 2018

covcity4life said:
would give this a go next game

thomas on left, jones on right,both cutting in
kelly and agogo in middle. both defensive to cover for more threat on both wings instead of one

Thomas is left footed, that is one of the issues. We have 2x left footed 'right wingers', only Shipley as the left footed left midfielder, and no right footed wingers at the club.

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Terry Gibson's perm · Oct 4, 2018

I would leave out Doyle and play Ogogo if fit, Bayliss has to play he is the only one that can move the ball forward, any talk of two defensive midfielders is madness we already create nothing

covcity4life · Oct 4, 2018

stupot07 said:
Thomas is left footed, that is one of the issues. We have 2x left footed 'right wingers', only Shipley as the left footed left midfielder, and no right footed wingers at the club.

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jones is adept at cutting in on right too, perhaps he could play left

or just tell thomas tbe a tradional winger and hug touchline whilst jones on right cutting in. variety is the spice of life

eastwoodsdustman · Oct 4, 2018

Bayliss in the middle leaves way too much work for the other midfielder ie Doyle. Bring Kelly in, put Bayliss on the right and drop Thomas who has flattered to deceive. Then Either Shipley or Jones on the Left. Ogogo looked miles away from being ready but his time will come.

pusbccfc · Oct 4, 2018

The problem for me is that Kelly, Doyle and Ogogo are poor passers of the ball. All three of them do their job well, but it seems we're relining on them to do more.

I'd still prefer Robins to pack the Midfield out and play narrow and allow the full backs to push on a bit more.

He would never do this of course, he loves to play wide players.

Gibbo · Oct 4, 2018

stupot07 said:
Thomas is left footed, that is one of the issues. We have 2x left footed 'right wingers', only Shipley as the left footed left midfielder, and no right footed wingers at the club.

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I hadn't thought of that

Martin180 · Oct 4, 2018

Can see a side with a 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 eventually with Ogogo, Kelly and Bayliss centrally . Jones and Thomas out wide and Chaplin/JCH up top

Otis · Oct 4, 2018

Gibbo said:
I hadn't thought of that

And that's why you're not a manager and Mark Robins is.

Westendlad · Oct 4, 2018

Gibbo said:
Here is an argument;
The teams problems are now all in the midfield. Injuries notwithstanding everywhere else is relatively settled. So we don’t like Willis at right back but it will do pro tem

Here are the problems in midfield:
· Doyle is now too old to be the only defensive minded central midfielder
· Robins values Doyle’s leadership qualities so highly he selects himself
· Bayliss has been less creative going forward and is poor at tracking back
· Shipley is most likely to be replaced by JJ quite soon
· A side with Thomas and JJ (and Bayliss and Doyle) in midfield is vulnerable in defence
· Ogogo and Kelly have not yet done enough to warrant automatic inclusion
· Andreu is highly skilled but we appear to have no obvious slot for him
· While we find our feet, two defensive midfielders might be smart

Here are the options
RW Thomas or Bayliss
CM (2 places) Bayliss, Kelly, Ogogo, Doyle, and Andreu
LW JJ (Shipley in reserve)

We have too many options and none of them is perfect.
Personally I lean to (eventually) Bayliss – Kelly – Ogogo - Jones,
I would start by putting Bayliss back on the right and bringing back one of Kelly or Ogogo alongside Doyle.

Ideas on a postcard to M Robins, c/o The Ricoh, Coventry

I am quite sure MR is pissed off more than any of us that players he brought in the summer haven't performed as he had hoped. Ogogo was meant to cover Doyle when he needed a rest wasn't he ?

no_loyalty · Oct 5, 2018

Ogogo has been poor apart from the first game, but I would give him another opportunity and start him tomorrow

larry_david · Oct 6, 2018

pusbccfc said:
The problem for me is that Kelly, Doyle and Ogogo are poor passers of the ball. All three of them do their job well, but it seems we're relining on them to do more.

I'd still prefer Robins to pack the Midfield out and play narrow and allow the full backs to push on a bit more.

He would never do this of course, he loves to play wide players.

I thought they never gave the ball away? *

*a match fit Liam Kelly doesn't by the way

Calista · Oct 6, 2018

The way I see it, there’s no way Doyle can hold the centre of midfield alongside an attack-minded player. So there have to be two holding mids – perm any two from Doyle, Ogogo & Kelly. Possibly Shipley too? Someone said that two holding mids is too defensive but I disagree – they give the attackers a platform to play with freedom.

I don’t think we should play 4-4-2, because we don’t have any proper wide mids who can get up and down the pitch. For me, with the players we have it needs to be 4-2-3-1.

In the absence of Biamou, the only realistic one up front is JCH, which is worrying because his attitude seems all wrong. Most of the time he doesn’t look that committed to me, often sulking, yet on his day he can be a good centre forward. He needs more competition, as none of the guys listed below is really suited to that role IMO.

The squad is imbalanced, with loads of players vying for the 3 attacking positions behind and either side of the main striker. At least one of Bayliss and Andreu has to play, as they are the most likely to give us good possession on the attacking half. Besides them we have Jones, Thomas, Hiwula, Shipley, Chaplin, Bakayoko. Plus Allassani and Ponti out on loan now?

Plenty of attacking good attacking talent available to the manager, which makes it all the more ridiculous that he can’t find a way to make them gel.

eastwoodsdustman · Oct 6, 2018

kelly and Doyle start today with Bayliss and Thomas wide.

Mucca Mad Boys · Oct 6, 2018

Today’s midfield is an interesting one, we should stick with what was successful last season.

steve82 · Oct 8, 2018

I’d like to see Andreu and Doyle as a pairing against Wycombe in a 442. Time for Tom Bayliss to have a rest if anyone happens to find him.

Wonderful talent with a very big future in the game but just not getting to grips with the step up this year for me, ponderous in possession and over plying the ball at times resulting in being dispossessed leaving us exposed at times to the counter attack.

Flashes of his ability we’ve seen but maybe a short break will be the right thing for him to step up fresh again having played a lot of football in just 11 months.

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Pete in Portugal · Oct 8, 2018

steve82 said:
I’d like to see Andreu and Doyle as a pairing against Wycombe in a 442. Time for Tom Bayliss to have a rest if anyone happens to find him.

Wonderful talent with a very big future in the game but just not getting to grips with the step up this year for me, ponderous in possession and over plying the ball at times resulting in being dispossessed leaving us exposed at times to the counter attack.

Flashes of his ability we’ve seen but maybe a short break will be the right thing for him to step up fresh again having played a lot of football in just 11 months.

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Better surely to rest him in the Checkatrade match against FGR tomorrow evening and bring him back for the Wycombe game. For Wycombe, I'd play with a fairly fluid 4-2-3-1 formation with a central midfield partnership of Bayliss - Doyle and an attacking mid-field of Thomas - Chaplin - Hiwula. It's still early days, but with Baka upfront, I believe this line up will pose quite a threat to the Wycombe defenders.

steve82 · Oct 8, 2018

Pete in Portugal said:
Better surely to rest him in the Checkatrade match against FGR tomorrow evening and bring him back for the Wycombe game. For Wycombe, I'd play with a fairly fluid 4-2-3-1 formation with a central midfield partnership of Bayliss - Doyle and an attacking mid-field of Thomas - Chaplin - Hiwula. It's still early days, but with Baka upfront, I believe this line up will pose quite a threat to the Wycombe defenders.

Personally I think more than a few days rest is required, two weeks or three maybe.

4231 I don’t like, I think it restricts us. I feel we play better with a 442 adaptation, was the same last season too.

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Mild-Mannered Janitor · Oct 8, 2018

I am not sure I would be brave enough to do it, only in games like tomorrow night but maybe the answer to central midfield is Shipley and Bayliss, this is their natural positions or Ogogo and Bayliss.

I know people have views on Bayliss but he reminds me more of Madders rather than a Stephenson as in he looks to go forward when he gets the ball where as I always felt like Stephenson went backwards or looked for Doyle.
The creative is essential for midfield which is why I never feel that Kelly/Doyle can ever work, you may see out games with work but not sure you will ever win enough through their speed and lack of creativity.

skybluegod · Oct 8, 2018

Mild-Mannered Janitor said:
I am not sure I would be brave enough to do it, only in games like tomorrow night but maybe the answer to central midfield is Shipley and Bayliss, this is their natural positions or Ogogo and Bayliss.

I know people have views on Bayliss but he reminds me more of Madders rather than a Stephenson as in he looks to go forward when he gets the ball where as I always felt like Stephenson went backwards or looked for Doyle.
The creative is essential for midfield which is why I never feel that Kelly/Doyle can ever work, you may see out games with work but not sure you will ever win enough through their speed and lack of creativity.

Who’s Stephenson? Did you mean Stevenson?

He never really played with Doyle... in the relegation season he was always trying to pass forward. It only because of a loss of confidence and form he stopped being so expansive.

Mild-Mannered Janitor · Oct 8, 2018

skybluegod said:
Who’s Stephenson? Did you mean Stevenson?
He never really played with Doyle... in the relegation season he was always trying to pass forward. It only because of a loss of confidence and form he stopped being so expansive.

No wonder he couldn't find Doyle then if he wasn't playing with him. Apologies, and you may be right, it may have been confidence but do feel that TB potentially offers a little more than BS did.

skybluegod · Oct 8, 2018

Mild-Mannered Janitor said:
No wonder he couldn't find Doyle then if he wasn't playing with him. Apologies, and you may be right, it may have been confidence but do feel that TB potentially offers a little more than BS did.

I agree with that I think Bayliss will be a better player.

Magwitch · Oct 8, 2018

I’m reasonably happy with our defenders and attackers think there’s goals to come from there especially once JJ is fully fit, but not sure with our midfield still think if there is dosh to spend in the January window that’s where it should be spent, disappointed with the fact Ogogo hasn’t performed yet and don’t think the balance is right yet. Can’t put an exact finger on it just think we need to be better at dictating play from there.

Gazolba · Oct 9, 2018

Magwitch said:
<snip> disappointed with the fact Ogogo hasn’t performed yet and don’t think the balance is right yet.<snip>

Ogogo isn't playing so how can he perform? He needs time on the pitch to become match fit and bed in with his fellow players.

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee · Oct 9, 2018

I know someone said 4-2-3-1 restricts us but I think that’s only the case with the fact we keep saying we have to have a ‘target’ man striker in it. Love him or hate him, Mowbray gave us at least six months of the most expansive football we’ve seen in 4-2-3-1 with Armstrong as the 1. Would be interested to see us give Chaplin a run in a similar style even just for a checkatrade/first round of FA cup game. Our biggest issue would be who to fill the Fleck void as we don’t really have a player of his mould, but JJ, Thomas, Andreu/Bayliss could provide similar roles to Murphy/Kent/Maddison. Then with Kelly/Ogogo next to a deeper lying play maker which we’re lacking. Could Shipley play that role? Who knows, would like to see it trialed though

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steve82 · Oct 10, 2018

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee said:
I know someone said 4-2-3-1 restricts us but I think that’s only the case with the fact we keep saying we have to have a ‘target’ man striker in it. Love him or hate him, Mowbray gave us at least six months of the most expansive football we’ve seen in 4-2-3-1 with Armstrong as the 1. Would be interested to see us give Chaplin a run in a similar style even just for a checkatrade/first round of FA cup game. Our biggest issue would be who to fill the Fleck void as we don’t really have a player of his mould, but JJ, Thomas, Andreu/Bayliss could provide similar roles to Murphy/Kent/Maddison. Then with Kelly/Ogogo next to a deeper lying play maker which we’re lacking. Could Shipley play that role? Who knows, would like to see it trialed though

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Your spot on, TM side gave us breathtaking football for a spell utilising the 4231. The system clearly worked for a spell, but how much reliance on the results was down the the fact Adam Armstrong was on the money so often when in on goal. Up to the point of the Gillingham 4-1 home win he’d bagged 12 goals in 15 league games. The 4 up top were generous very quick, technical and gifted players who were fluid in there movements, and replacements off the bench up a similar technical quality.
Fleck and Vincelot were a quality paring too.

This current group for me don’t have the technical qualities to suit the 4231 like the side of 15/16, was the same last year too when MR persisted with it. It’s a good system but not the one for us currently.

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Midfield problems - is there a solution? (1 Viewer)

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