More false Coventry council claims exposed over Ricoh Wasps deal-Les Reid (21 Viewers)

So who is telling the truth then? Is it Mr SISU himself..Les Reid in cohorts with CET When having that famous "Exclusive interview with Joy Seppala...."Asked to be clear with fans and Coventrians if there were any hope of a Ricoh return, Ms Seppala said: “The club needs 100 per cent ownership of the freehold of the Ricoh. If you look back at the history of the club, you can see why this is important.” She said she had made her position clear at a meeting with ACL directors on July 25, adding: “I had thought we were going to talk about a deal involving stadium ownership.”....Or is it the Coventry observer with.....The Observer can also exclusively reveal evidence to show Coun Lucas last week made further false claims, wrongly alleging the Sky Blues had only been interested in buying back the stadium, built by and for the football club, on a FREEHOLD basis. Read more: More false Coventry council claims exposed over Ricoh Wasps deal | Coventry Observer As said on "The Price is right"...The choice is yours ....................................................My first post on the thread...Exactly where do I accuse Observer of lying??? and you got the nerve to say I started the s**t??? The truth is laid before you?!?!? What f**king truth??? Where is this "Letter" to AL? From the man who says one thing at the CET, and the polar opposite at the Observer? Which part of Mr Les Reid do you want to believe eh? The CET part or the Observer part?

Sky Blue Kid said:

@ skybluedan.......Without doubt, the best reply to the whole thread mate

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It's funny because it's true

Sky Blue Kid said:

So who is telling the truth then? Is it Mr SISU himself..Les Reid in cohorts with CET When having that famous "Exclusive interview with Joy Seppala...."Asked to be clear with fans and Coventrians if there were any hope of a Ricoh return, Ms Seppala said: “The club needs 100 per cent ownership of the freehold of the Ricoh. If you look back at the history of the club, you can see why this is important.” She said she had made her position clear at a meeting with ACL directors on July 25, adding: “I had thought we were going to talk about a deal involving stadium ownership.”....Or is it the Coventry observer with.....The Observer can also exclusively reveal evidence to show Coun Lucas last week made further false claims, wrongly alleging the Sky Blues had only been interested in buying back the stadium, built by and for the football club, on a FREEHOLD basis. Read more: More false Coventry council claims exposed over Ricoh Wasps deal | Coventry Observer As said on "The Price is right"...The choice is yours ....................................................My first post on the thread...Exactly where do I accuse Observer of lying??? and you got the nerve to say I started the s**t??? The truth is laid before you?!?!? What f**king truth??? Where is this "Letter" to AL? From the man who says one thing at the CET, and the polar opposite at the Observer? Which part of Mr Les Reid do you want to believe eh? The CET part or the Observer part?

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I am sure if there was no letter than Unintentional Anne will be the first to say it didn't exist - don't you?

Sky Blue Kid said:

So who is telling the truth then? Is it Mr SISU himself..Les Reid in cohorts with CET When having that famous "Exclusive interview with Joy Seppala...."Asked to
be clear with fans and Coventrians if there were any hope of a Ricoh return, Ms Seppala said: “The club needs 100 per cent ownership of the freehold of the Ricoh. If you look back at the history of the club, you can see why this is important.” She said she had made her position clear at a meeting with ACL directors on July 25, adding: “I had thought we were going to talk about a deal involving stadium ownership.”....Or is it the Coventry observer with.....The Observer can also exclusively reveal evidence to show Coun Lucas last week made further false claims, wrongly alleging the Sky Blues had only been interested in buying back the stadium, built by and for the football club, on a FREEHOLD basis. Read more: More false Coventry council claims exposed over Ricoh Wasps deal | Coventry Observer As said on "The Price is right"...The choice is yours ....................................................My first post on the thread...Exactly where do I accuse Observer of lying??? and you got the nerve to say I started the s**t??? The truth is laid before you?!?!? What f**king truth??? Where is this "Letter" to AL? From the man who says one thing at the CET, and the polar opposite at the Observer? Which part of Mr Les Reid do you want to believe eh? The CET part or the Observer part?

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SBK, before we continue any further with this argument, are you wearing the blazer of invincibility?

Can someone fill me In as I havnt been keeping up on here due to using phone as Computer Is down
If I have It right the conflab Is around the books of ACL being out to the tune of £400K for one year when experiencing. extraordinary costs pursuing the Illegal withholding of rent on a company with a turnover circa £6-7M
The following year we are told that company had a turnover circa £14-15M when also recouping circa £600K of lost rent
We are also told that profitability was achieved on that turnover
Seems to me that £600K contread
back to the time it was withheld produces a positive balance
Is that correct?:-(

wingy said:

Can someone fill me In as I havnt been keeping up on here due to using phone as Computer Is down
If I have It right the conflab Is around the books of ACL being out to the tune of £400K for one year when experiencing. extraordinary costs pursuing the Illegal withholding of rent on a company with a turnover circa £6-7M
The following year we are told that company had a turnover circa £14-15M when also recouping circa £600K of lost rent
We are also told that profitability was achieved on that turnover
Seems to me that £600K contread
back to the time it was withheld produces a positive balance
Is that correct?:-(

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Fuck knows! But I can tell you that Seppala sent AL a letter saying that leasehold was acceptable and AL has been less than honest about that, but... SBK doesn't believe the letter is real and has had a huge hissy fit about it. He got all sweary and threatened to go to bed.

wingy said:

Can someone fill me In as I havnt been keeping up on here due to using phone as Computer Is down
If I have It right the conflab Is around the books of ACL being out to the tune of £400K for one year when experiencing. extraordinary costs pursuing the Illegal withholding of rent on a company with a turnover circa £6-7M
The following year we are told that company had a turnover circa £14-15M when also recouping circa £600K of lost rent
We are also told that profitability was achieved on that turnover
Seems to me that £600K contread
back to the time it was withheld produces a positive balance
Is that correct?:-(

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Mate forget all that shit ain't you heard some exciting news on the stadium deal in the new year...oh yeah grendels had a sex change.........

@ Samo.......Are you wearing "Pampers" still? or have you progressed to "Huggies Pull Ups?"

wingy said:

Can someone fill me In as I havnt been keeping up on here due to using phone as Computer Is down
If I have It right the conflab Is around the books of ACL being out to the tune of £400K for one year when experiencing. extraordinary costs pursuing the Illegal withholding of rent on a company with a turnover circa £6-7M
The following year we are told that company had a turnover circa £14-15M when also recouping circa £600K of lost rent
We are also told that profitability was achieved on that turnover
Seems to me that £600K contread
back to the time it was withheld produces a positive balance
Is that correct?:-(

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No, the £400 k loss is for the year that we weren't there with the £14million turnover(second year of that doubled turnover, due to the incorporation of IEC into ACL accounts I think?).

The year that Anne Lucas said that ACL was "very profitable" without the club.


Also looks like the outside "prudential" borrowing for the loan to ACL didn't happen at all, and it actually came from Council reserves.

The loan that was to protect a "community asset" from a predatory hedge fun, is now being used(from Council reserves remember) to support a private company owned by a predatory hedge-fund.

Anyway...Had enough for one night. Off to (As Samo accused me of) Spending more time with my Grandson. Night night!

Sky Blue Kid said:

@ Samo.......Are you wearing "Pampers" still? or have you progressed to "Huggies Pull Ups?"

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Are you back in nappies yet SBK? If not it won't be long.

@ Samo.....Why do you ask? Do you want to try and put one on me?

Sky Blue Kid said:

@ Samo.....Why do you ask? Do you want to try and put one on me?

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Good lord! No thanks SBK, try Grinder.

Sky Blue Kid said:

@ Samo.....Why do you ask? Do you want to try and put one on me?

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If this is turning into some sordid sex fetish guys leave it in private

lordsummerisle said:

No, the £400 k loss is for the year that we weren't there with the £14million turnover(second year of that doubled turnover, due to the incorporation of IEC into ACL accounts I think?).

The year that Anne Lucas said that ACL was "very profitable" without the club.


Also looks like the outside "prudential" borrowing for the loan to ACL didn't happen at all, and it actually came from Council reserves.

The loan that was to protect a "community asset" from a predatory hedge fun, is now being used(from Council reserves remember) to support a private company owned by a predatory hedge-fund.

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Cheers for clearing that up LS
This sagas been so long running keeping up with the chronology has been nigh on Impossible

Labour Council. Can't be trusted, waste your money, "make mistakes" with the truth.

Keep voting Labour, let your kids pay the bill in the future.

I freely admit to having no financial or legal expertise, but I think the confusion about freehold/leasehold may arise from Seppala’s phrase “In any scenario we need a freehold or clean RESTRICTION-FREE long lease" [my capitals].

I seem to recall someone (possibly Fisher) saying they expected the Council to pay off all the contracts to wipe the slate clean – which the Council regarded as impossible. If that were the case, might the long lease deal given to Wasps and the one demanded by SISU be very different things?

Norman Lockhart said:

I freely admit to having no financial or legal expertise, but I think the confusion about freehold/leasehold may arise from Seppala’s phrase “In any scenario we need a freehold or clean RESTRICTION-FREE long lease" [my capitals].

I seem to recall someone (possibly Fisher) saying they expected the Council to pay off all the contracts to wipe the slate clean – which the Council regarded as impossible. If that were the case, might the long lease deal given to Wasps and the one demanded by SISU be very different things?

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Of course they are, but some posters insist on glossing over this most important point.

Jack Griffin said:

Of course they are, but some posters insist on glossing over this most important point.

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It's supposition though. Nobody knows what the conditions were but you've decided to use off the cuff remarks from Tim ('the bullshitting liar') Fisher as proof.

Norman Lockhart said:

I seem to recall someone (possibly Fisher) saying they expected the Council to pay off all the contracts to wipe the slate clean – which the Council regarded as impossible. If that were the case, might the long lease deal given to Wasps and the one demanded by SISU be very different things?

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That would depend on the detail of the deal but in essence if Lucas is saying SISU showed no interest in a lease yet there is a letter saying the opposite it doesn't' look too good for her does it?

You would also need to look at the contracts ACL have in place. Would it be safe to assume that none of them run longer than the original lease held by ACL. In which case the lease given to Wasps becomes unfettered around a fifth of the way through. Of course we're making an assumption here that restriction free is making reference to unfettered and not some other terms, could well be the case but equally could be something different.

fernandopartridge said:

It's supposition though. Nobody knows what the conditions were but you've decided to use off the cuff remarks from Tim ('the bullshitting liar') Fisher as proof.

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Show me any shred of evidence that confirms the deals are equivalent and I will apologise for my 'unreasonable supposition'.

Till then I feel entirely justified that what I've said is much more likely to be the case than not.

Jack Griffin said:

Show me any shred of evidence that confirms the deals are equivalent and I will apologise for my 'unreasonable supposition'.

Till then I feel entirely justified that what I've said is much more likely to be the case than not.

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Seeing as none of us know the details of any of the "deals" it would be hard to be justified in having a concrete view on any of them.

So having taken the time to read through the article, hope I'm on the right thread here as the 1664 Is kicking In
As I suggested earlier, hopefully In this thread the near £600K the FL were due to enforce the club to pay ACL was due sometime before May.
Between January /March time from memory can someone confirm?
So perceptions , we were all a little Incredulous as to why they were delaying it IIRC, seems the motive Is Indeed In the perception created,. ACL were expecting It when due, It would have given a Positive balance on those accounts and Reeves West Lucas et AL could not be now accused of misleading anyone
I rest my case, applied at the correct point or retrospectively if you wish ACL In the the short term at that point was Indeed washing Its face.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-owner-joy-6096912

How does this fit in with all that?.....

Article by Les Reid regarding interview with JS ....

“The new stadium will be close to Coventry but not in the jurisdiction of Coventry City Council. We met the Football League in January and discussed where it should be and what it should be.

“Instinctively, it would not cross my mind to have it within Coventry City Council’s boundary given the history, histrionics and the issue of freehold ownership."

Insisting the club’s survival depends on income streams from a stadium and land denied to it by the council, Ms Seppala continued: “Plan A is building a new stadium. There is something very exciting about building something that is a new beginning. It feels like the club is at a new beginning."

“It would be crazy from a business perspective to go back to the Ricoh without full control. All the money that’s been put into this club would be put at risk again."

“Realistically, this council don’t think they can work with me. I know I cannot work with them. It doesn’t mean I can’t negotiate a deal. But I am not going to risk my investors’ money by exposing us to the potential of having a repeat of what happened over the last year."

She said she had made her position clear at a meeting with ACL directors on July 25, adding: “I had thought we were going to talk about a deal involving stadium ownership.”

Asked if it was an extreme bargaining position in public from which there may be room for private negotiation, she said: “I don’t posture. I always tell people what it is I need. I don’t go for wasting time in negotiations."
Asked to be clear with fans and Coventrians if there were any hope of a Ricoh return, Ms Seppala said: “The club needs 100 per cent ownership of the freehold of the Ricoh. If you look back at the history of the club, you can see why this is important.”


ACL when asked by the Telegraph if it would be willing to resume talks with Ms Seppala over stadium ownership and revenues, not just rent, said in a brief statement: “It’s up to them to decide what their best offer looks like.”

Coventry City’s owner Joy Seppala says she is willing to talk with the council over returning to the Ricoh Arena - but only if the club can own it.

Whatever your opinion on SISU, the council, or Les Reid, I feel for the guy. This story has well and truly chewed him up and spat him out.

fernandopartridge said:

It's supposition though. Nobody knows what the conditions were but you've decided to use off the cuff remarks from Tim ('the bullshitting liar') Fisher as proof.

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So you would agree that you don't know what info was given to Lucas about ACL finances, but you know she is guilty of bullshitting to everyone 100%? :thinking about:

lordsummerisle said:

Seeing as none of us know the details of any of the "deals" it would be hard to be justified in having a concrete view on any of them.

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So you agree that Lucas might not be guilty as you have her charged at then?




All we can do is look at all the info on what has been going on. But trying to make excuses up for one side or calling one side as maybe innocent whilst taking the other side as guilty with the same information isn't being biased?

I see it as though conditions were placed on the offer as a 50% share was not wanted by SISU. It would have cost them nearly 3m......about 3m with associated fees.....then 50% of loan on top. Not what they wanted at all. Nothing really to sell. Good for our clubs future. But they are not interested in our clubs future. Much cheaper to rent short term off Wasps. So I don't believe they made a proper serious bid.

Just like the bullshit from CCC over the finances of ACL. I take them as bullshitters until proved otherwise. No taking sides. No trying to make out that one side is innocent.....or less guilty than the other. They all had an agenda. And it wasn't for the best of our club from anyone. Bunch of wankers the lot of them.

SBT said:

Whatever your opinion on SISU, the council, or Les Reid, I feel for the guy. This story has well and truly chewed him up and spat him out.

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I agree fully.

He looked to have a good career ahead of him. But he leaned too much towards SISU instead of taking an unbiased stand. Then it seemed more like rants than reporting what he thought. The final straw was when he was having a go at supporters that didn't agree with him. There looks to have been some truth on what he was saying. But there wasn't on others. But he wouldn't back down at all. It seems that he took too much on being able to talk to Seppala instead of being able to ask her questions. This put him in a difficult situation.

But he isn't the only one to suffer. Garlick hasn't done too well either. Although she won't suffer as much as Reid.

Astute said:

I agree fully.

He looked to have a good career ahead of him. But he leaned too much towards SISU instead of taking an unbiased stand. Then it seemed more like rants than reporting what he thought. The final straw was when he was having a go at supporters that didn't agree with him. There looks to have been some truth on what he was saying. But there wasn't on others. But he wouldn't back down at all. It seems that he took too much on being able to talk to Seppala instead of being able to ask her questions. This put him in a difficult situation.

But he isn't the only one to suffer. Garlick hasn't done too well either. Although she won't suffer as much as Reid.

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Nikki Sinclair's political career has gone from strength to strength though

Astute said:

I agree fully.

He looked to have a good career ahead of him. But he leaned too much towards SISU instead of taking an unbiased stand. Then it seemed more like rants than reporting what he thought. The final straw was when he was having a go at supporters that didn't agree with him. There looks to have been some truth on what he was saying. But there wasn't on others. But he wouldn't back down at all. It seems that he took too much on being able to talk to Seppala instead of being able to ask her questions. This put him in a difficult situation.

But he isn't the only one to suffer. Garlick hasn't done too well either. Although she won't suffer as much as Reid.

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Seems reasonable all this could of been the reason Les Reid was put on gardening leave He got close to this and they tried to suppress him maybe???

skybluetony176 said:

Nikki Sinclair's political career has gone from strength to strength though

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That was already about over. It seemed that she took on the SISU mouthpiece job to keep herself on the front page.

Bennets Afro said:

Seems reasonable all this could of been the reason Les Reid was put on gardening leave He got close to this and they tried to suppress him maybe???

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It is the way that I see things. The CET wouldn't want to anger many of their readers. And at the time CCC were seen as innocent of all charges by the vast majority and SISU guilty of everything.

Astute said:

It is the way that I see things. The CET wouldn't want to anger many of their readers. And at the time CCC were seen as innocent of all charges by the vast majority and SISU guilty of everything.

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Why would it anger them getting the truth out?

So the cet wouldn't want to get the truth out in case it disagreed with people? Really?

That's mental, even for you!!!!

The Philosopher said:

Labour Council. Can't be trusted, waste your money, "make mistakes" with the truth.

Keep voting Labour, let your kids pay the bill in the future.

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Keep voting tory and give the wealth to the super rich and you just be grateful for that zero hours contract you have. Just a different perspective.

Astute said:

So you would agree that you don't know what info was given to Lucas about ACL finances, but you know she is guilty of bullshitting to everyone 100%? :thinking about:



So you agree that Lucas might not be guilty as you have her charged at then?




All we can do is look at all the info on what has been going on. But trying to make excuses up for one side or calling one side as maybe innocent whilst taking the other side as guilty with the same information isn't being biased?

I see it as though conditions were placed on the offer as a 50% share was not wanted by SISU. It would have cost them nearly 3m......about 3m with associated fees.....then 50% of loan on top. Not what they wanted at all. Nothing really to sell. Good for our clubs future. But they are not interested in our clubs future. Much cheaper to rent short term off Wasps. So I don't believe they made a proper serious bid.

Just like the bullshit from CCC over the finances of ACL. I take them as bullshitters until proved otherwise. No taking sides. No trying to make out that one side is innocent.....or less guilty than the other. They all had an agenda. And it wasn't for the best of our club from anyone. Bunch of wankers the lot of them.

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One is a poster on a message board giving an opinion. The other is the leader of a large city council talking about the profitability of a company they're a 50% shareholder in.

Astute said:

So you would agree that you don't know what info was given to Lucas about ACL finances, but you know she is guilty of bullshitting to everyone 100%?

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It shouldn't take too long to find out if Lucas was fed false information by council officers working for ACL. That would be a very serious matter so I expect in the next day or two we will be seeing reports that they have been suspended pending disciplinary action. If they have done as she says they may also be looking at legal action.