Motivation- Down to the players (1 Viewer)

Pusb1 · Sep 23, 2024

What i've consistently failed to understand about footballers.

If we had the same desire and appetite for the bigger games (Spurs, Utd, Wolves, Leicester at home last year)- where the players were visibly 'up for it', As a cold Tuesday night away at the Stokes, Plymouths etc. of this world, or even home games against less 'fancied' opponent's. We'd have been in the Premiership by now.

If we were consistently that up for a game. Every single game. Very few teams would be able to stop us.

Why can players only seem to get motivated for the glamour ties?

Sky Blue Harry H · Sep 23, 2024

Agreed - but maybe that's one of the differences between the very top players, and those a level below. Some players obviously don't have the skill level of those at the top, but a lack of on pitch desire is difficult to fathom. It stands out with those players who put in 100% (although some get 'headless chicken' thrown at them, but seeing the difference between a player closing down an opponent at pace, versus a leisurely amble is galling to us as spectators.

ccfcricoh · Sep 23, 2024

no teams play all out every game, not even the Man Citys, its just not possible for an athlete to perform at 100% whenever they play

of course a player is going to be more up for a game against a prem team than Plymouth, who wouldnt be, its no different to the fans!

skybluecam · Sep 29, 2024

Pusb1 said:
What i've consistently failed to understand about footballers.

If we had the same desire and appetite for the bigger games (Spurs, Utd, Wolves, Leicester at home last year)- where the players were visibly 'up for it', As a cold Tuesday night away at the Stokes, Plymouths etc. of this world, or even home games against less 'fancied' opponent's. We'd have been in the Premiership by now.

If we were consistently that up for a game. Every single game. Very few teams would be able to stop us.

Why can players only seem to get motivated for the glamour ties?

To me that is the job of the management team. And it's less about being "up for" a game than having a clear and effective game plan that just needs executing.

They're also completely different games against the bigger teams. They start on the front foot expecting to be the aggressor. If you can beat the press you'll find yourself in behind with space and time. Where we struggle is against teams that are happy to sit in for long periods and we don't have the patterns of play to break them down consistently.

skyblueeyesrevisited · Sep 30, 2024

Brian Clough and Bill Shankley were great motivators. They bigged their players up by constantly telling them they were the best. Sadly, all I hear from MR before a game is how good the opposition are.

clint van damme · Sep 30, 2024

skyblueeyesrevisited said:
Brian Clough and Bill Shankley were great motivators. They bigged their players up by constantly telling them they were the best. Sadly, all I hear from MR before a game is how good the opposition are.

That's not true.
Clough never praised certain players.
His strength was he knew which ones would react well to praise and which ones would react to lack of it.

Bad Boy · Sep 30, 2024

skyblueeyesrevisited said:
Brian Clough and Bill Shankley were great motivators. They bigged their players up by constantly telling them they were the best. Sadly, all I hear from MR before a game is how good the opposition are.

Very true no doubt about it.

Bad Boy · Sep 30, 2024

ccfcricoh said:
no teams play all out every game, not even the Man Citys, its just not possible for an athlete to perform at 100% whenever they play

of course a player is going to be more up for a game against a prem team than Plymouth, who wouldnt be, its no different to the fans!

Very true ccfcricoh but even on days when its not an 'all in 100%' day there is such a thing as taking pride in your work and doing your best even if you're not feeling your best which is not in evidence right now. Too much just going through the motion a 'that'll do' mentality seems to have crept into the Ryton psychy.

Grendel · Sep 30, 2024

skyblueeyesrevisited said:
Brian Clough and Bill Shankley were great motivators. They bigged their players up by constantly telling them they were the best. Sadly, all I hear from MR before a game is how good the opposition are.

I don't think Clough did that with Justin Fashanu

SkyB · Sep 30, 2024

Again, it's leadership for me. Great examples are Morsey at Ipswich and Vardy at Leicester. They set the tone, drag people with them. They're not going hell for leather for 90 minutes but they sense when the games in the balance or there's a lull and put in the extra 10% to get the fans loud and the rest of the side focused again.

Something Simms and Sheaf really need to learn and pick up in their games.

wingy · Sep 30, 2024

SkyB said:
Again, it's leadership for me. Great examples are Morsey at Ipswich and Vardy at Leicester. They set the tone, drag people with them. They're not going hell for leather for 90 minutes but they sense when the games in the balance or there's a lull and put in the extra 10% to get the fans loud and the rest of the side focused again.

Something Simms and Sheaf really need to learn and pick up in their games.

It was very much in evidence with us last season, Leicester, Leeds,cup game's so no singling out for me, apparently it seems that way now but doesn't mean it is)

lord_garrincha · Sep 30, 2024

clint van damme said:
That's not true.
Clough never praised certain players.
His strength was he knew which ones would react well to praise and which ones would react to lack of it.

Bad Boy said:
Very true no doubt about it.

I have to say, I agree with you both.

Boicey · Sep 30, 2024

You would hope that players at this level (and money) would at least have the motivation and self pride to get really fit.
Looking like a dead dog after 30 mins and not doing basics like pressing, supporting team mates, moving to make yourself available for a pass is plain embarrassing. Wright and Simms especially spring to mind. BTA isn't great although that might be more unhappiness with his role.

fernandopartridge · Sep 30, 2024

Remember there are two teams playing in each game though

Boicey · Sep 30, 2024

fernandopartridge said:
Remember there are two teams playing in each game though

Yeah the problem is the other one often seems more motivated than ours.
Especially in the first half.

long way home · Sep 30, 2024

Grendel said:
I don't think Clough did that with Justin Fashanu

He managed and coached 100s of players and would make examples everyday of players. He was feared by all and it was a respectful fear which got him with Peter Taylor to build fantastic teams. The stories are endless about him, it was his way or no way and he didn't care of opinion of others.

As for Fashanu, not somebody id be using in any light and definitely not as a victim.

Grendel · Sep 30, 2024

long way home said:
He managed and coached 100s of players and would make examples everyday of players. He was feared by all and it was a respectful fear which got him with Peter Taylor to build fantastic teams. The stories are endless about him, it was his way or no way and he didn't care of opinion of others.

As for Fashanu, not somebody id be using in any light and definitely not as a victim.

He called him a poof in front of his team mates and destroyed him.

I once when living near the City Ground found Clough lying on our front garden pissed.

Fortunately the world has moved on from people like him.

Gint11 · Sep 30, 2024

I don’t think Cloughs managerial style would work now, not even Fergies. Players can oust managers now.

Calista · Sep 30, 2024

Grendel said:
I don't think Clough did that with Justin Fashanu

Or Asa Hartford IIRC

CovValleyBoy · Sep 30, 2024

Grendel said:
He called him a poof in front of his team mates and destroyed him.

I once when living near the City Ground found Clough lying on our front garden pissed.

Fortunately the world has moved on from people like him.

Sounds like me after Wolves Away. I think I did make it into the kitchen though

long way home · Sep 30, 2024

Grendel said:
He called him a poof in front of his team mates and destroyed him.

I once when living near the City Ground found Clough lying on our front garden pissed.

Fortunately the world has moved on from people like him.

Destroyed him, FFS, he was already on the wrong path hence why he got charged with child abuse years later. He would not be someone id be using as a victim of the way Clough managed.

Others could of been named and they would be many. Pearce was called a fraud day after returning from England debut. Megson was called shit and worst player he signed. 10 youth kids minutes after losing heavy to in a youth FA cup final were told to go and be decorators, painters, factory workers while sitting in the kit in the changing room etc one by one.... That was Clough he treated everyone with truth and didn't care if they were offended. Truth hurts i suppose

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 30, 2024

Gint11 said:
I don’t think Cloughs managerial style would work now, not even Fergies. Players can oust managers now.

In any workplace you have those who respond best to a kick up the arse, and others who respond best to an arm around the shoulder. Get it wrong and somebody either takes the piss or shuts down.

The best managers in any era have always known how to identify the two.

Cally Fedora · Sep 30, 2024

The Spurs game suited a non composed performance. We could look good hassling and harrying. It’s why Bassette and BTA looked decent in that game. We’re lacking the know how when it’s a game we can dominate and have time on the ball.

Gint11 · Oct 1, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
In any workplace you have those who respond best to a kick up the arse, and others who respond best to an arm around the shoulder. Get it wrong and somebody either takes the piss or shuts down.

The best managers in any era have always known how to identify the two.

Agree.

ProfessorbyGrace · Oct 1, 2024

Going from MR’s comments towards the end of his post-match interview on Saturday, the inference was that management these days isn’t about chewing players out, chastising them openly, because (quote) ‘you can’t do that nowadays’.

Sounds to me like, also going by his subsequent comments, that there’s a lot of attention paid to the players feelings, which in a sense is great. But if they can’t be given constructive criticism, or indeed a hefty bollocking (if needed) for not doing what they’re paid to do then…?!

Putting 2 and 2 together (and possibly making 43 I admit), this could ultimately have been why AV was given the boot so surreptitiously…

Frankly_Mr_Shankly · Oct 1, 2024

Players need a good bollocking if they’ve performed badly, if they can’t take that, then they should go and take up Cricket.

Skyblue54 · Oct 1, 2024

Think reason why we've lost continuity is that we've lost quality players o'hare..hamer..Mcfaz etc...and replaced them with inferior players..hence drop in performance..

Ring Of Steel · Oct 1, 2024

Pusb1 said:
What i've consistently failed to understand about footballers.

If we had the same desire and appetite for the bigger games (Spurs, Utd, Wolves, Leicester at home last year)- where the players were visibly 'up for it', As a cold Tuesday night away at the Stokes, Plymouths etc. of this world, or even home games against less 'fancied' opponent's. We'd have been in the Premiership by now.

If we were consistently that up for a game. Every single game. Very few teams would be able to stop us.

Why can players only seem to get motivated for the glamour ties?

I think this has a lot to do with the mix of personalities in the group. When you’ve got what appears to be a fairly delicate bunch like now, I don’t find it surprising. When you’ve got big characters like McFazdean, Vik etc, you know nobody is going to be allowed to have anything but the right mentality irrespective of whether we’re playing the leaders or the bottom club.

so yeah- it’s down to the players ultimately, but it’s down to the manager to make sure the players contain a few ‘leaders’ out there on the pitch.

I’m in the ‘Robins in’ camp, but it’s a big failing to not have a sprinkling of leadership within the squad.

Ring Of Steel · Oct 1, 2024

Skyblue54 said:
Think reason why we've lost continuity is that we've lost quality players o'hare..hamer..Mcfaz etc...and replaced them with inferior players..hence drop in performance..

partially agree- it’s the mental strength & leadership too, maybe more imho. We used to pull results out with much inferior teams than we have now ability-wise, and that was a mental thing- never stopping, plugging away, not letting heads drop if we conceded.

The issue has not been the results as much as the nature of them, we look dead & buried if we concede first, and everyone seems to hide or have zero confidence in what they’re doing.

McFazdean & Kelly were massive losses in this respect

gspotgaz · Oct 1, 2024

Ring Of Steel said:
partially agree- it’s the mental strength & leadership too, maybe more imho. We used to pull results out with much inferior teams than we have now ability-wise, and that was a mental thing- never stopping, plugging away, not letting heads drop if we conceded.

The issue has not been the results as much as the nature of them, we look dead & buried if we concede first, and everyone seems to hide or have zero confidence in what they’re doing.

McFazdean & Kelly were massive losses in this respect

That in itself is very very frustrating for fans of a professional football team to see. It shouldn’t need players in their 30’s to drive a team forwards when they’re losing - drive to win should always be there every single game

bigfatronssba · Oct 1, 2024

gspotgaz said:
That in itself is very very frustrating for fans of a professional football team to see. It shouldn’t need players in their 30’s to drive a team forwards when they’re losing - drive to win should always be there every single game

If anything it should be even stronger in the younger players.

A player in his 30s has already reached his peak.
Those in their 20s should be pushing themselves to be the best player they can be

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT · Oct 1, 2024

skyblueeyesrevisited said:
Brian Clough and Bill Shankley were great motivators. They bigged their players up by constantly telling them they were the best. Sadly, all I hear from MR before a game is how good the opposition are.

clint van damme said:
That's not true.
Clough never praised certain players.
His strength was he knew which ones would react well to praise and which ones would react to lack of it.

Bairn Clough was Ruthless, at Forest he Once Substitute a Midfielder for not Having a Shot on Goal and Never Replaced him, just Played with 10 Men.

The Great Eastern · Oct 1, 2024

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT said:
Bairn Clough was Ruthless, at Forest he Once Substitute a Midfielder for not Having a Shot on Goal and Never Replaced him, just Played with 10 Men.

Think that was Steve Hodge. Cant remember who Forest were playing but I watched it on TV. The commentator was dumbfounded. As I recall Forest were winning easily and Clough decided to rest Hodge in advance of an upcoming important game. Odd decision though.

wingy · Oct 3, 2024

bigfatronssba said:
If anything it should be even stronger in the younger players.

A player in his 30s has already reached his peak.
Those in their 20s should be pushing themselves to be the best player they can be

Can only be a result of a blockage or temporary reaction to a disruption off field if that's the case because they didn't have a blockage of any sort during the cup run, in fact i even commented on the Simms goal at Wolves and he was literally pogoing without realising he was excited!

ccfc922 · Oct 3, 2024

I do question what's happened between Leeds and Blackburn for such a night and day performance.

We looked in control for 90 mins vs Blackburn whereas it took 90 mins for a decent attempt on goal vs Leeds at 3-0 down....

Motivation- Down to the players (1 Viewer)

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