Mowbray needs to go (3 Viewers)

Skyblueweeman · Mar 31, 2016

Or two transfer windows....

oucho · Mar 31, 2016

luwalla said:
no, its like saying a baby is ugly when its 18 months old... and this baby is looking pretty damn ugly! ( actually there are some signs of beauty, unfortunately most of that will be off end of the season! )

who knows though, could grow into a stunner! one things is for sure though, this is now a mowbray team out there, being managed by mowbray for a full season ( all told ) now.

yes , im sure it will build over the years into more of a mowbray team, and hopefully that team will be more successful.

Exactly - unless we stick with him, we'll never know either way. We have nothing to lose by sticking with him.

Skyblueweeman said:
Sacking someone after 18 games is ridiculous (although plausible)....sacking someone for failing after 18 months would be standard practice I would've thought??

It does indeed appear to be standard practice. However, what I'm saying is that it shouldn't be....it's the standard practice we're in but it's a crap standard practice because it just means the clock is reset every 12-18 months. Long term success is built over a much longer gestation period than 18 months. Sooner or later we need to give a manager a licence to fail in the first few seasons, clinging to the hope that this will pay off from seasons 3-4 onwards.

lewys33 · Mar 31, 2016

oucho said:
Exactly - unless we stick with him, we'll never know either way. We have nothing to lose by sticking with him.

It does indeed appear to be standard practice. However, what I'm saying is that it shouldn't be....it's the standard practice we're in but it's a crap standard practice because it just means the clock is reset every 12-18 months. Long term success is built over a much longer gestation period than 18 months. Sooner or later we need to give a manager a licence to fail in the first few seasons, clinging to the hope that this will pay off from seasons 3-4 onwards.

I don't think we should sack him. However - teams sack managers when they are in a relegation fight, and most of the time it works. Why couldn't we do it to get us through the remaining games and push for the play-offs? It is essentially the same principle.

Otis · Mar 31, 2016

lewys33 said:
I don't think we should sack him. However - teams sack managers when they are in a relegation fight, and most of the time it works. Why couldn't we do it to get us through the remaining games and push for the play-offs? It is essentially the same principle.

It is and it might well have worked.

lewys33 · Mar 31, 2016

Otis said:
It is and it might well have worked.

Yh probably a bit too late now unfortunately. I like Mowbray but his lack of anything other than plan A is disturbing (In team selection and tactics).

I don't like the whole idea of constantly changing managers etc. but I also don't see why we should show them any loyalty when at the next oppurtunity they would take something better. Managers like fergie/howe are very hard to come by.

Otis · Mar 31, 2016

lewys33 said:
Yh probably a bit too late now unfortunately. I like Mowbray but his lack of anything other than plan A is disturbing (In team selection and tactics).

I don't like the whole idea of constantly changing managers etc. but I also don't see why we should show them any loyalty when at the next oppurtunity they would take something better. Managers like fergie/howe are very hard to come by.

I have also always been of the opinion that we should give managers time too, but if one is failing badly, then I think you have little choice.

I do think if we were to lose the last 7 games or not have a single win and lose nearly all of them, then he would be gone.

From 1st to 16th or 17th would clearly show there was something drastically wrong.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that and the team at least show a little bit of an upturn in form.

Captain Dart · Mar 31, 2016

lewys33 said:
I don't think we should sack him. However - teams sack managers when they are in a relegation fight, and most of the time it works. Why couldn't we do it to get us through the remaining games and push for the play-offs? It is essentially the same principle.

Nail on head, we've been in relegation struggles so often.

ClarkeZ · Mar 31, 2016

Captain Dart said:
Nail on head, we've been in relegation struggles so often.

Hence why it may be entirely fruitless to part ways now. Nothing will change this season, that's well known. We don't have anything to lose by sticking with him now and we as a club have got to change something, holding onto a manager a little longer might be the first step.

smileycov · Mar 31, 2016

lets see how the remainder of the season pans out. i still think heis right man for the job. arma is back i;m sure all will be fine :claping hands:

SkyBlueRuffian · Mar 31, 2016

oucho said:
Sacking someone for failing after 18 months is ridiculous, it's like saying a baby is ugly 5 months before it's born.

Wouldn't be tolerated in any other business, a holy cock up and you're out!!

oucho · Mar 31, 2016

SkyBlueRuffian said:
Wouldn't be tolerated in any other business, a holy cock up and you're out!!

Football isn't just any business - he should be allowed to fail if it results in the right results a few years down the line. Requires a leap of faith!

LB87ccfc · Mar 31, 2016

No point sacking manager after manager it gets you no where, TM is too wise and will learn from this seasons mistakes and would of learnt alot about this league too and what is required.

Were a work in progress who massively overachieved at the beginning of the season, yes were in shit form but other teams have had bad patches and come out of the other end better for it, so stick to what we have, still for a club like ours, one of the best we can attract.

No one on here was calling for his head 3 months ago when wanting to have his children was they now.

Otis · Mar 31, 2016

LB87ccfc said:
No point sacking manager after manager it gets you no where, TM is too wise and will learn from this seasons mistakes and would of learnt alot about this league too and what is required.

Were a work in progress who massively overachieved at the beginning of the season, yes were in shit form but other teams have had bad patches and come out of the other end better for it, so stick to what we have, still for a club like ours, one of the best we can attract.

No one on here was calling for his head 3 months ago when wanting to have his children was they now.

He will learn from this season's mistakes, the same as he learned from the last two times the exact same thing happened to him? Don't get that.

Why will it take 4 times to get it right?

He's got it wrong 3 times now. Nothing at all to suggest he will suddenly get it right next time.

oucho · Mar 31, 2016

Otis said:
He's got it wrong 3 times now. Nothing at all to suggest he will suddenly get it right next time.

We really have nothing to lose by giving him another year.

fernandopartridge · Mar 31, 2016

Otis said:
He will learn from this season's mistakes, the same as he learned from the last two times the exact same thing happened to him? Don't get that.

Why will it take 4 times to get it right?

He's got it wrong 3 times now. Nothing at all to suggest he will suddenly get it right next time.

because it's a different team in difference circumstances, what happened at Middlesbrough is irrelevant

Otis · Mar 31, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
because it's a different team in difference circumstances, what happened at Middlesbrough is irrelevant

So why did Mowbray mention it had happened to him twice before?

Why talk about it like it's some Achilles Heel to him? Why even bring it up?

Nick · Mar 31, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
because it's a different team in difference circumstances, what happened at Middlesbrough is irrelevant

Yes, different team, same manager, same thing happening?

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 31, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
because it's a different team in difference circumstances, what happened at Middlesbrough is irrelevant

It also ignores all the seasons it hasn't happened.

Agreed, is irrelevant.

Otis · Mar 31, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
It also ignores all the seasons it hasn't happened.

Agreed, is irrelevant.

So he shouldn't have brought it up. If then asked by the press, he should have said 'Middlesborough are a different team, so it is irrelevant.'

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 31, 2016

Otis said:
So he shouldn't have brought it up. If then asked by the press, he should have said 'Middlesborough are a different team, so it is irrelevant.'

Perhaps he got bored of other people bringing up an irrelevant piece of info.

oucho · Mar 31, 2016

Just because he lost it 'Boro twice, doesn't mean it'll happen here twice.

Otis · Mar 31, 2016

Well I have to disagree and say it may well be relevant.

Let me give you an example scenario. Might actually prove to be the case.

When things were going well and Middlesborough lost 1 or 2 games in row, but managed to then claw it back and win the next one, the good run was back on track and it wasn't an issue.

However, when they lost 3 in a row a panic set in, TM was unable to address the situation and the losing run continued.

Just because it didn't happen to him sometimes, doesn't mean it is not relevant.

Very much depends on the circumstances.

We've seen it down the years on many occasions. A team on a great run and then suddenly the bubble bursts with one or two defeats and confidence is heavily dented and then they go on a run without winning.

I would say it could well be very relevant if the same pattern is emerging each time.

Could be he is just a manager that can go into a panic and not react appropriately to put things right when they go wrong sometimes.

Think it needs further examination at least.

lifeskyblue · Mar 31, 2016

The best managers can get something out of players even when they are on a losing streak. They can motivate and give confidence where there is none. Average managers can't and don't know how to

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Otis · Mar 31, 2016

lifeskyblue said:
The best managers can get something out of players even when they are on a losing streak. They can motivate and give confidence where there is none. Average managers can't and don't know how to

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am going to do an depth expose of TM's Middlesboroughian years!

Johnnythespider · Mar 31, 2016

Otis said:
So why did Mowbray mention it had happened to him twice before?

Why talk about it like it's some Achilles Heel to him? Why even bring it up?

It was a mistake for him to bring it up but I think he said it to try and calm people's expectations. We were all getting a bit excited, me Included.

Otis · Mar 31, 2016

Johnnythespider said:
It was a mistake for him to bring it up but I think he said it to try and calm people's expectations. We were all getting a bit excited, me Included.

I kept weeing myself.

Interesting to note that the season where Middlesborough dropped from 3rd to end up 16th, they only won 3 of their last 21 games.

Their demise started in the new year, losing 5 in a row. Never seemed to recover from that.

Be interesting to know if injuries really hurt them back then or not.

Otis · Mar 31, 2016

Wasn't mentioning this as a told you so sort of post, by the way. Just as an interesting to know sort of way.

Very interested to see where it went wrong for him. I really like the bloke.

Nick · Mar 31, 2016

Otis said:
I kept weeing myself.

Interesting to note that the season where Middlesborough dropped from 3rd to end up 16th, they only won 3 of their last 21 games.

Their demise started in the new year, losing 5 in a row. Never seemed to recover from that.

Be interesting to know if injuries really hurt them back then or not.

I think SISU secretely owned Mboro.

I'd say it is relevant, it could point to motivation, man management, tactics, lack of plan b etc.

It is like saying it is not relevant if Suarez bites somebody, because he doesn't do it every game.

Great_Expectations · Mar 31, 2016

I would keep him.

Recruitment is key in this division and his reputation is better than the average L1 manager, as is his scouting and relationship networks. Players will want to play for TM, while managers will trust him with their youngsters development. Whether we like the loan system or not, it exists in abundance in the lower leagues, and used correctly, it can be a real advantage. It was for us only a few months ago.

There is no defending the current form, but changing the manager will not help. What's the point? We aren't going up and its unlikely we are going down. Why not give TM another transfer window to bring in players - he's already planning for next season. If it's not working by November, then it's potentially time to panic and any new manager will have a month to assess the squad before the next window.

It's his first time managing in this league and he will have learnt from the experience. You don't become a bad manager over night, it's clear things have happened behind the scenes, but (rightly or wrongly) we are going to have a completely new squad next year, so any bad eggs will be gone/moved on.

How anyone can apportion blame on SISU for the collapse is beyond me.

Otis · Mar 31, 2016

Nick said:
I think SISU secretely owned Mboro.

I'd say it is relevant, it could point to motivation, man management, tactics, lack of plan b etc.

It is like saying it is not relevant if Suarez bites somebody, because he doesn't do it every game.

Well yup.

If Mowbray has a habit of going into panic mode on being unable to change things on say the back of 3 defeats in row, then it could well be relevant.

If other seasons when it has worked for him and his teams haven't slipped and they haven't lost 3 in row, that would eliminate the scenario of him going into a panic, because the 3 game in a row thing didn't manifest itself.

All suggestion of course. Not at all saying that is the reason. Just saying that this could happen to him under certain circumstances and if it is similar circumstances, then if course it is relevant.

If a manager had a habit of keep making the wrong substations at a club and then came here and we started to questioned his substitutions believing them to be incorrect, then of course it would be relevant.

He of course could be making the wrong substitutions, but have the team still winning (say going from 3-0 up, making subs and then end up winning 3-2 and hanging on).

Just because stuff doesn't happen all the time doesn't mean there isn't something inherently wrong in a manager's make-up.

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 31, 2016

Otis said:
All suggestion of course. Not at all saying that is the reason. Just saying that this could happen to him under certain circumstances and if it is similar circumstances, then if course it is relevant.

If Mowbray has a habit of shopping at Aldi rather than Morrisons, then this could be causing the problem.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 31, 2016

Mowbray has a plan B, unfortunately it isn't very good as plan b involves one or more of Fortune, Tudgay and Henderson.

When you are in our position its difficult to have a quality plan b in place, as firstly limited resources mean you try to concentrate your resources into the first 11 and secondly you aren't going to get someone like Matt Smith or Leon Clarke sit on the bench 90% of the time and be told we may use you if we are losing and you are the last resort.

Nick · Mar 31, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
If Mowbray has a habit of shopping at Aldi rather than Morrisons, then this could be causing the problem.

But then everybody else in the league is in aldi too

oucho · Mar 31, 2016

I never bought into the excitement - I always thought it was too good to be true. You really do have to take the rough with the smooth. Let's face it, before the season, most of us would say that top 8 would be a reasonable finish. If we do get there, then that's job done as far as I'm concerned. Top half would be respectable. Anything less would be disappointing but unless we're finishing bottom third, it's not a sackable offence.

87mint · Mar 31, 2016

he needs another season, no debate

Mowbray needs to go (3 Viewers)

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