deanocity3
New Member
BBC 1 now worth a watch.
New Hillsborough programme now on bbc1 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter deanocity3
- Start date
deanocity3
New Member
glad we were up the other end 2 years before,you never what could have happened.
30,000 cov fans there
30,000 cov fans there
Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
At least the truth is out now......the game needed to change. The idea of caging people in is beyond understanding nowadays.
The shots of Hillsborough now are a testament of how much better things are for fans and the extent to which people are now 'trusted'. '
The shots of Hillsborough now are a testament of how much better things are for fans and the extent to which people are now 'trusted'. '
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
If you remember our quater final what it was like in the lepping
kg82
Well-Known Member
I'm too young to remember our cup win and I've never actually seen extended footage of the semi-final, just the goals. To me, 89 sounds like the culmination of years of police naivety, stubbornness and arrogance. And then we know the cowardly approach they took to matters after now.
cloughie
Well-Known Member
It nearly happened to us in the quarter final or semi final 87
you would have had to be quick but in the police hand written notes shown it was mentioned
We were crushed and I ended up crushed against a barrier and eventually on the floor only to be dragged up by mates, 2nd half we went into the corners to find space
Really made me angry watching it as the police were the worst I have ever experienced in many an away game
RIP those who died at least the truth came out
you would have had to be quick but in the police hand written notes shown it was mentioned
We were crushed and I ended up crushed against a barrier and eventually on the floor only to be dragged up by mates, 2nd half we went into the corners to find space
Really made me angry watching it as the police were the worst I have ever experienced in many an away game
RIP those who died at least the truth came out
Yeah My younger brother who travelled independantly of me with one of our Cousins witnessed some of that sort of Crushing and queried what the police were doing to aleviate the problem, to promptly recieve a whack and an Escort from the ground.
My own experience was one of an awful crush out towards the left hand corner, an Old bookie approaching his mid 70's travelled up with us and we had to get him out.
hutch1972
Well-Known Member
Semi was a great game you should find a copy somewhere and watch it, creamed my jeans when MG equalised.
On the police side of things , it was years of marauding drunken hooligans who were to blame for the disaster ,people will remember fences had not always been there ,had football fans behaved themselves it would never have happened.
It took the loss of 96 lives before everyone realised enough was enough, football changed that day for the better and that includes the police ,fans and everyone connected with it.
Hooligans are still around but only a tiny % compared to yesteryear, long may that continue !
Delboycov
Active Member
Watched it and it made me even more annoyed about the crap that some on here spouted a few weeks ago saying that the disaster was caused by drunken Liverpool fans and implying that they'd brought it on themselves citing Heysel as a reference. It wasn't and they didn't. I just hope that these people watched this and have realised how insensitive and wrong they were. Justice for the 96...it could so easily have been us. So many of those fans were actually life saving heroes and were not only denied the credit they deserved but were branded little better than murderers...Many of the victim's families never lived to see justice done....Hillsborough was a national outrage and I just hope the real criminals face justice and are locked up.
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
I think I am probably one of the main people you are referring to. Do not recall anyone saying it was JUST drunken Liverpool fans...nor that the dead & injured bought it on themselves. Most, or even possibly ALL of us were saying it was a catalogue of things but drunken Liverpool fans turning up & kicking-off surely have to share in the blame? Another thing is that Panorama are the TV equivalent of the Sun in so much as they edit the programme specifically to influence the viewer toward whatever they want them to believe...didn't watch te program but I wonder - did they even mention that there even were any drunk fans?
And an earlier post is pretty accurate in my view - that years of ever increased drinking before games impacted on loads of things...even the Polices perception of fans in general. Everyone attending a game back in the day was a yob first, member of the public second.
As awful as these deaths were - no amount of us debating the finer points is going being them back.
RIP96
Delboycov
Active Member
Yes Bazza I think you were the person that started the theme although others followed who didn't seem to even acknowledge that there were other reasons for the disaster as you did. However you are still wrong. You mention you didn't watch the programme and I would suggest for you to have a more up to date view of things and to be able to comment fairly you try and catch it before assuming that this was the TV equivalant of 'The Sun', who as you will know printed blatant lies about what had happened and who was responsible.... I think it will be a real eye opener for you. As the Police now admit the cause of the tragedy was down to a combination of incredibly bad policing and almost equally as bad emergency medical organisation....they place no blame on the fans at all and have accepted the huge and immoral cover up that took place which began almost immediately afterwards. The cause of the tradgedy has been proven to be the closure of gates at both sides of the Leppings Lane end which were relatively empty and the insistence by the Head of South Yorkshire Police and his officers to cram all fans into one already tightly packed area resulting in carnage....effectively sending many innocent people to their death. The fact that some would've been drunk has no more relevance than it would've had the tragedy happened 2 years earlier when I saw quite a few of our fellow fans also drunk. Those fans that carried the dead and injured on advertising hoardings and in many cases saved lives should be awarded medals instead of spending the best part of 25 years trying to clear their names. When you watch the programme you will see police officers present at the time confirming that they had statements changed and also the wife of a now deceased Chief Inspector who was there saying that as soon as he came forward and said what had really happened his career was pretty much over...He died pretty much a broken man. There's also a Doctor on there who treated some of the injured who had his career attempted to be ruined and him discredited for speaking up against those in power. There is also evidence of a major cover up between the Lord chief Justice who oversaw the investigation and the Head of West Midlands Police who investigated his Yorkshire colleagues. You say that no amount of us debating will bring them back but what the families of those involved want is for those that were responsible to be brought to justice and serve time for their incompetence and subsequent lies. As I said I think you should really watch it....Justice for the 96.
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Delboycov
Active Member
As I said on a previous thread, the same thing happened to me Cloughie and I honestly thought I was going to die from being crushed at the QF....I said to my mate afterwards that there were going to be deaths here...fortunately I was wrong but it was clearly a major disaster waiting to happen. That is what annoys me so much about those who point the finger at Liverpool fans,...it could so easily have happened to us and if it did the same cover up would've happened if there was the same level of incompetency on the day.
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
Was it not the fact that the doors to the central pen weren't closed that was a major factor in the disaster? The police should have closed this when it became apparent that the area was full and then directed fans to the pens at the side of the Leppings lane end? This is what I've read from the various reports of the incident, though I haven't seen the Panorama programe.
Agree with everything else you've said. And no, it was absolutely nothing to do with drunken fans.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Interestingly although I am sure there were some fans who had been drinking the pictures show immediate awareness of the situation and people taking all appropriate action to resolve the matter as soon as they became aware of it. If only those making safety decisions had done the same eh??
The reason it is not mentioned in programmes like the one on Monday is it was completely irrelevant to what happened.
deanocity3
New Member
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/main-section/part-2/chapter-1/page-9/
Fa Cup Semi Final 1987
Warnings at the Leeds v Coventry match
Fa Cup Semi Final 1987
Warnings at the Leeds v Coventry match
Delboycov
Active Member
Yeah I think you might be right there...whatever it was it resulted in areas at either side of the Leppings Lane end which were fairly sparsely populated, not being utilised. The programme and others I've seen have truly shocked me and I just hope that true jusltice is finally done for the victims and also the families, many of whom never lived long enough to gave their innocent love one's names cleared.
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Perhaps I'm in a significant minority then...but when I try to get into a known confined space, with or without ticket, I stop trying if it is plainly obvious that its already crammed.
Either way, a total tragedy whichever way you look at it & as I've repeatedly said - none of those involved in any way had that outcome in mind...but it happened, so did the awful subsequent lies & cover-up & if possible those responsible for that at least have to live a tortured life with their lies & maybe will get some just desserts.
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
But in this case is wasn't known to the supporter the a particular area was full. The central pen had a tunnel leading to the terracing so it wasn't clear from the outside that this has already filled up. The central pen is/was the first entrance a supporter would see coming through the turnstiles and unless you were familiar with the ground it wasn't obvious that there were others, which is what the police should have been doing by directing supporters to these.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
So who chose to try to push their way in if it was already full - which brings me full circle, because I would guess that alcohol played a pretty significant part there! Whether it be the fact they were drunk or the fact they thought they'd sink one last pint before making their way to the ground.
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
Not sure why you are so obsessed with the alcohol thing, what makes you think the fans were more drunk than any other set of supporters at any semi-final?
I'd suggest you read up on it a little more.
kg82
Well-Known Member
Read the quote by the Leeds fan on the article Deano posted.
I've squeezed my way into confined areas at football, gigs and festivals because I've felt it'll lead to a better atmosphere or being closer to the action. Nowt to do with alcohol.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
We're straying well off the original point that I made all those weeks ago here. So I'll concede...All the Liverpool fans that were at Hillsborough that day just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, all of them behaved impeccably, non of them had a drink beforehand, they all arrived at the stadium by 2:30 to ensure they got in with a reasonable positioning to watch the match, they were attacked at Hysel & showed great restraint & did nothing to escalate things further, they did not mug fellow fans for tickets at the last Euro final they were in, they don't sing songs about the Munich air disaster, they had no hand in us not playing in Europe 1987 & missing out on the associated revenue...none of it! They are little angels & IT'S NEVER THEIR FAULT (which was the original comment that starting this ping-pong).
I truly feel desperately sad about what happened that day...all Luverpool, indeed football fans were victims that day. Seeing it on TV & thinking that could of been me, my mates might be in there & then not knowing...even on a smaller scale - I was a victim.
That's my last post on this as it could just run & run...& run...&...
kg82
Well-Known Member
Right, so it's just because of an agenda against their fans? Fantastic.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I remember us being on the Kop that day, it was packed, really rammed and I got a terrible feeling of vertigo as the stand was so bloody steep! Our coach was stopped on the hard shoulder by the exit from the motorway and searched for alcohol. I don't drink but my mate had his lager confiscated.
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
I'd suggest yes it should be your last post until you research the subject a bit more. Most of what you've written is absoulte rubbish based on speculation and prejudice.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Like 'The Sun' in the aftermath of Hillsborough...
... Not like they've changed though.
Delboycov
Active Member
I don't think you really need to say anymore Bazza...In your original post you did imply that post Heysel the fans had brought the Hillsborough tragedy on themselves....in fact reading your post here you've done the same thing again! I said at the time it was an absolutely disgraceful post as others did and I still stand by that. What comes through loud and clear from your posts about the subject is that you don't seem to be aware of the facts that have since emerged...have you deliberately steered clear of availing yourself with the evidence that's come to light since 1989?... I guess if I hadn't made myself aware of these facts I may have the same view as you. You seem to be a very reasonable poster although I've disagreed with some of your opinions regarding SISU etc. Your post here though smacks of total bitterness over Liverpool fans denying us the opportunity of playing in Europe, which of course they did and I'm no fan of their fans because of that. This is a completely different situation though where 96 , probably completely different innocent people lost their lives and their families and friends have spent a quarter of a century trying to clear their names. They've done that now and I'm pretty sure that more disgusting stories will come out about this. Most people have stopped the distasteful innuendo now thankfully...why don't you do the same, at least until you actually educate yourself with the facts?
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