New Labour Leader (12 Viewers)

shmmeee · Dec 16, 2019

Thought this might be the natural home for the politics debate now Brexit is settled and the GE is done.

Id be interested to hear people’s thoughts, especially those that didn’t vote Labour.

Current timetable is new leader election process will start in the new year with a new leader in by March.

Expected candidates:

Keir Starmer

Policy: who knows? Keeps his cards close to his chest. Likely soft left but has worked under Corbyn where others wouldn’t.

Pros: decent speaker, good record at the CPS looks the part mostly. No major scandals

Cons: A bit wet. Tied to the Remain strategy. Always looks surprised.

Rebecca Long Bailey

Policy: Corbynite

Pros: not as much baggage as Corbyn. The heir to the throne.

Cons: the heir to the throne. Young and inexperienced.

Yvette Cooper

Policy: Blairite-ish. Bangs on about “high tech jobs” and training and sure start a lot.

Pros: experienced, held office in government, liked in the PLP

Cons: blairite-scum p), uninspiring, very Remainy

Lisa Nandy

Policy: soft left, pro Brexit (for Labour), wants to focus on Labour Heartlands they just lost.

Pros: competent, seems to understand the social issues and neglect Labour have shown their traditional voters.

Cons: a bit weak speaking, always looks a bit dopey. Not clear what her ideas are beyond “her back the North”.

Emily Thornberry

Policy: soft leftish, happy enough with Corbynism to defend it the last four years.

Pros: experienced, takes a boob high five like a champion.

Cons: habit of being a snob, very Remainy.

Angela Rayner

Policy: “Ideology never put food on my kids table”

Pros: working class, can be a decent fighter

Cons: thick as two short planks, inexperienced

Jess Phillips
(pic won’t load, google her)

Policy: not clear. Soft leftish Id guess. Not very ideological

Pros: a character, not London, decent media profile

Cons: very marmitey, Corbynites hate her, can come across a bit shrill.

Other possibles:
Dan Jarvis - former army piece of wet cardboard
Jim McMahon - Oldham council leader, seems to have disappeared
Richard Burgon - LOL

Chances are whoever it is won’t win in 2024/5, their main job will be starting the detoxification of the party and stopping the rot.

Who does SBT think has the best chance of saving Labour?

Covrock · Dec 16, 2019

Dianne Abbott.

BodicoteSkyBlue · Dec 16, 2019

When was Brexit settled?

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 16, 2019

BodicoteSkyBlue said:
When was Brexit settled?

It's going to be well-nigh impossible now to argue against whatever the PM wants to do, even if we want to.

So not settled... but not worth expending the energy on, unless and until it goes fearsomely terrifying!

stupot07 · Dec 16, 2019

I reckon you could add Jess Phillips the list if expected candidates.

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shmmeee · Dec 16, 2019

BodicoteSkyBlue said:
When was Brexit settled?

Unless the government gets hit by a meteor I think it’s a safe bet

shmmeee · Dec 16, 2019

stupot07 said:
I reckon you could add Jess Phillips the list if expected candidates.

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Good point, forgot her. She’ll be there too

SBAndy · Dec 16, 2019

Fairly uninspiring shortlist. The danger, of course, with picking someone from the shadow cabinet is that they could be seen as tainted by association and therefore easy pickings for the red tops.

I’ve made my thoughts clear as to why Andy Burnham should be approached about taking on leadership (though no one has answered my query on a non-MP being party leader).

Edit: I should also add that Burnham said he would no longer seek leadership after his failed campaign in 2015 but if an approach were to be made I expect that would change.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 16, 2019

SBAndy said:
Fairly uninspiring shortlist. The danger, of course, with picking someone from the shadow cabinet is that they could be seen as tainted by association and therefore easy pickings for the red tops.

I’ve made my thoughts clear as to why Andy Burnham should be approached about taking on leadership (though no one has answered my query on a non-MP being party leader).

He'd be parachuted in, in a by-election if they really wanted him.

He won't do it this time round mind. Maybe they need to go a bit Tory and get their version of IDS (shudders!) for a year or two.

shmmeee · Dec 16, 2019

Needs to be a Northerner for me or at least not London. The big job of the next five years is holding Johnson’s feet to the fire with his promises to his new voters.

I don’t think she’s charismatic enough but I’m leaning Nandy, or Phillips at a push but think she’d turn a lot off.

I think in five years one of the Mayors like Khan or Burnham might be the answer but that’s a long way away.

SBAndy · Dec 16, 2019

I am, however, concerned that the membership won’t be quite as accepting of the result as me. They may continue to push for someone reflecting Corbyn’s values (which isn’t a bad place to be, but I fear may lead to further stagnation). After all, what good is it having a great set of policies if you’re not in power to implement them?

stupot07 · Dec 16, 2019

SBAndy said:
Fairly uninspiring shortlist. The danger, of course, with picking someone from the shadow cabinet is that they could be seen as tainted by association and therefore easy pickings for the red tops.

I’ve made my thoughts clear as to why Andy Burnham should be approached about taking on leadership (though no one has answered my query on a non-MP being party leader).

Edit: I should also add that Burnham said he would no longer seek leadership after his failed campaign in 2015 but if an approach were to be made I expect that would change.

You have to be an elected MP to be the leader of the party.

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stupot07 · Dec 16, 2019

SBAndy said:
I am, however, concerned that the membership won’t be quite as accepting of the result as me. They may continue to push for someone reflecting Corbyn’s values (which isn’t a bad place to be, but I fear may lead to further stagnation). After all, what good is it having a great set of policies if you’re not in power to implement them?

Absolutely. Was listening to a podcast this morning, they were saying that if you're labour but are against Corbynism, then now is a good time to join the party so you can have your say on the leadership election.

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SBAndy · Dec 16, 2019

stupot07 said:
Absolutely. Was listening to a podcast this morning, they were saying that if you're labour but are against Corbynism, then now is a good time to join the party so you can have your say on the leadership election.

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That is what’s spurring me on to join the party. Can’t say I’m against Corbynism to the greatest extent as the better portion of policies had my support. However, you have to look at the bigger picture and understand that maybe it is too much of a jump in an instant, coupled with the fact that the leader was evidently a major drawback and any future leader with association can expect to receive the same types of criticism.

As an aside, what podcast were you listening to?

Grendel · Dec 16, 2019

stupot07 said:
You have to be an elected MP to be the leader of the party.

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No you don’t technically and you can lead the party but not me the parliamentary leader which is what some MPs will try and do

You’ve forgotten (snigger) Dawn Butler though she wants to run as a dream team with Long Bailey and her as deputy

Well it would be a dream for me

fatso · Dec 16, 2019

BodicoteSkyBlue said:
When was Brexit settled?

Nick · Dec 16, 2019

Obviously the one with the Pearl Necklace.

djr8369 · Dec 16, 2019

“Brexit settled”

Well good luck with that.

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Sick Boy · Dec 16, 2019

It's pretty shocking that Corbyn didn't resign with immediate effect and is still trying to dicate the direction.

djr8369 · Dec 16, 2019

Starmer probably the sensible choice but tainted by time in shadow cabinet. Nandy not quite charismatic enough as somebody has said. Jess Phillips has the charisma but is hated by a lot of people outside of labours base. Beats me.

Needs to be somebody decent though as a strong opposition is in everyone’s interests.

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Grendel · Dec 16, 2019

Sick Boy said:
It's pretty shocking that Corbyn didn't resign with immediate effect and is still trying to dicate the direction.

Its unbelievable that he’s hanging around - every other leader would fall on their sword. Well he’s never been a leader so I suppose that’s it

fatso · Dec 16, 2019

None of the above!

Sick Boy · Dec 16, 2019

Grendel said:
Its unbelievable that he’s hanging around - every other leader would fall on their sword. Well he’s never been a leader so I suppose that’s it

His comments since the election suggest that is completely out of touch with reality, if he is able to hang around for the next few months it is going to damage the party even more. The fact he is going to be facing Johnson in parliament is farcical, he seems to have no shame and has his head buried in the sand. The government must have an effective oppostion for the good of everyone, this is beyond a joke.

SkyBlueDom26 · Dec 16, 2019

Sick Boy · Dec 16, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:

Coming from the guy who started the 'I'm a Celebrity' thread - hahaha!

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 16, 2019

Sick Boy said:
His comments since the election suggest that is completely out of touch with reality, if he is able to hang around for the next few months it is going to damage the party even more. The fact he is going to be facing Johnson in parliament is farcical, he seems to have no shame and has his head buried in the sand. The government must have an effective oppostion for the good of everyone, this is beyond a joke.

Why is it any different to Michael Howard, David Cameron, or Theresa May staying until a new leader is in place?

stupot07 · Dec 16, 2019

SBAndy said:
That is what’s spurring me on to join the party. Can’t say I’m against Corbynism to the greatest extent as the better portion of policies had my support. However, you have to look at the bigger picture and understand that maybe it is too much of a jump in an instant, coupled with the fact that the leader was evidently a major drawback and any future leader with association can expect to receive the same types of criticism.

As an aside, what podcast were you listening to?

This was the one I was listening to this morning - Remainiacs - The Brexit Podcast #remainiacsTheBrexitPodcast
https://rss.acast.com/remainiacs via @PodcastAddict

But in terms of political I also like listening to:
Electioncast | Brexitcast #electioncastBrexitcast
https://podcasts.files.bbci.co.uk/p05299nl.rss via @PodcastAddict

and
TALKING POLITICS #talkingPolitics
http://rss.sms.cam.ac.uk/rss/collection/1907300?feedtype=itunes via @PodcastAddict

And
Political Thinking with Nick Robinson #politicalThinkingWithNickRobinson
https://podcasts.files.bbci.co.uk/p04z203l.rss via @PodcastAddict

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chiefdave · Dec 16, 2019

stupot07 said:
This was the one I was listening to this morning

Bloody hell, you're a glutton for punishment!

SkyBlueDom26 · Dec 16, 2019

Sick Boy said:
Coming from the guy who started the 'I'm a Celebrity' thread - hahaha!

No relation whatsoever

Sick Boy · Dec 16, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
No relation whatsoever

Talk about dumbing down.

Sick Boy · Dec 16, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
Why is it any different to Michael Howard, David Cameron, or Theresa May staying until a new leader is in place?

The party have just been comprehensively beaten in a GE, it would be best all round for him to have gone with immediate effect. The triumphalism by the Tories is going to humiliate the party even further.

fatso · Dec 16, 2019

Sick Boy said:
The party have just been comprehensively beaten in a GE, it would be best all round for him to have gone with immediate effect. The triumphalism by the Tories is going to humiliate the party even further.

I disagree, (hear me out)
Labour has had such a thrashing, that they are probably going to be in opposition for at least 10-15 years. With that in mind, the next leader of the party is actually very unlikely to become the next labour prime minister, so there’s absolutely no rush to appoint a new figure head.
Surely it’s better for Corbyn to stay in office for a short while (upto 3 months for example) to allow the repercussions to die down, and also to allow the party to take time to conduct a thorough enquiry into all aspects of the organisation from the grass roots to the front benches. It needs to rid itself of the cancer that is the momentum movement, and it needs to purge itself of the hard left politicians that the public failed to take to.
It also needs to take a hard look at the influence exerted by the trade union movement, and should start conducting in depth communications with its historic heartlands to gain a true reflection of where the people want labour to go forward in the future.
To blindly replace Corbyn now, without conducting an autopsy, and agreeing a comprehensive re building program, would be like changing the captain of the Titanic, AFTER its hit the iceberg.

clint van damme · Dec 16, 2019

Labour cannot recover until the two factions put their differences aside in my opinion.
Which leader can unite them - no idea.

richnrg · Dec 16, 2019

clint van damme said:
Labour cannot recover until the two factions put their differences aside in my opinion.
Which leader can unite them - no idea.

only two factions?

rob9872 · Dec 16, 2019

Hard to believe at present, but I actually think Emily Thornberry or Jess Phillips would take the party backwards.

Nandy seems more centred and electable, not heard anything negative. Unlikely to appeal to Corbynites, but surely they realise that if they want the Tory's out eventually they need a softer approach and not something akin to what's already in place.

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