New Stadium financial viability. (1 Viewer)

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

Has anyone ever provided an explanation into how SISU will in the long term recoup their money.
If they have to borrow 20-40 million to build a new stadium. If we are 30-70 million in debt.

Even if you take the lesser of these ball park figures. That's 50 million.

I think it is highly unlikely to be the lesser of the figures but if it is. Can they sell CCFC and a 12k stadium for 50 million?

Has JS or Mr Fisher ever been asked this direct question. Is any of the supporters groups or the stadium group in a position to ask it. Can anyone in the media if you read this site please ask.

If it has been asked and answered in a acceptable way then apologies for the thread and please let me know.

hopefully after the first five 'oh good another stadium thread' comments I may get a sensible answer. .....

skybluetom · Feb 27, 2014

My guess is the way they're looking at it is thus: spend 20 - 30 million on a ground and hope to get promoted in the mean time; they may be able to recoup a decent some of their cash selling to the right buyer if you've got a Championship club, on a stable footing financially with its own ground. Currently they've spunked however many 10's of millions and have a product that's worth nothing; even if they can get half of their money back it's better than nothing.

It goes back to why not offer the council that kind of money for the Ricoh though? While the Council have said it's not for sale you suspect they'd have to consider any reasonable offer.

Grendel · Feb 27, 2014

Surely the only people who can answer this in acceptable way is sisu? Why don't you go to Sixfields on Sunday and ask Tim fisher?

hill83 · Feb 27, 2014

No idea. And it's all ballpark guessing games so there won't be an answer for you.

shmmeee · Feb 27, 2014

Grendel said:
Surely the only people who can answer this in acceptable way is sisu? Why don't you go to Sixfields on Sunday and ask Tim fisher?

Why bother?

We've asked at every available opportunity and he's always refused to answer.

For me it's telling that when people have asked Garlick about the budget (because how on earth can you plan a stadium with no idea of budget) she's said she doesn't know even a rough figure.

There is no stadium.

Edit: for comparison here's a story from 1998 before the Ricoh got given the go ahead and we had an estimated cost.

FFS even the architect all but admitted he's just knocked something up on a fag packet and has done no real work as they don't have a budget.

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

Grendel said:
Surely the only people who can answer this in acceptable way is sisu? Why don't you go to Sixfields on Sunday and ask Tim fisher?

I agree only SISU can answer it.
I personally won't go to Sixfields as I don't believe there is any need for us to be there.

So if it hasn't already been answered. It would be nice if anybody who does have access to SISU ask the question.

It is a very important question which needs answering.
If it can't be answered then once and for all the fallacy of a the new stadium can be put to bed

wingy · Feb 27, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Has anyone ever provided an explanation into how SISU will in the long term recoup their money.
If they have to borrow 20-40 million to build a new stadium. If we are 30-70 million in debt.

Even if you take the lesser of these ball park figures. That's 50 million.

I think it is highly unlikely to be the lesser of the figures but if it is. Can they sell CCFC and a 12k stadium for 50 million?

Has JS or Mr Fisher ever been asked this direct question. Is any of the supporters groups or the stadium group in a position to ask it. Can anyone in the media if you read this site please ask.

If it has been asked and answered in a acceptable way then apologies for the thread and please let me know.

hopefully after the first five 'oh good another stadium thread' comments I may get a sensible answer. .....

I'm sure they know we all know it don't add up Grendel
Charlton £14M.
Leeds£25M.
Reading £50M.
Edit; Don God this sites playing up today
OP came up from Grendel initially

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

shmmeee said:
Why bother?

We've asked at every available opportunity and he's always refused to answer.

For me it's telling that when people have asked Garlick about the budget (because how on earth can you plan a stadium with no idea of budget) she's said she doesn't know even a rough figure.

There is no stadium.

Has he actually been asked and refused to answer?

I am not even asking for exact figures you could choose any really but in the long term the club and a 12k stadium will need selling for over 50 million

Is that realistic?

Hobo · Feb 27, 2014

Grendel said:
Surely the only people who can answer this in acceptable way is sisu? Why don't you go to Sixfields on Sunday and ask Tim fisher?

Why?

Surely it is in their interest to come out and sell it!

I suspect the reason they haven't; is because the answer isn't favourable!

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

wingy said:
I'm sure they know we all know it don't add up Grendel
Charlton £14M.
Leeds£25M.
Reading £50M.

Reading was sold for 50 million
What did you get for that?

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

hill83 said:
No idea. And it's all ballpark guessing games so there won't be an answer for you.

That's why I am asking what their answer is as they can't be working in guesswork

shmmeee · Feb 27, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Has he actually been asked and refused to answer?

I am not even asking for exact figures you could choose any really but in the long term the club and a 12k stadium will need selling for over 50 million

Is that realistic?

Sorry, just to check, we're talking about the total cost of the new stadium right?

Yes, he's been asked. The closest we've had to a reply is "something like Rotherhams". The question was asked of all the panel at the Stadium Forum and again at the Stadium Committee Selection Meeting, and Sandra said she had no idea. Several people asked how we can give ideas without an idea of a budget and she dodged the question.

It's all dodgy as hell Don.

skybluefred · Feb 27, 2014

skybluetom said:
My guess is the way they're looking at it is thus: spend 20 - 30 million on a ground and hope to get promoted in the mean time; they may be able to recoup a decent some of their cash selling to the right buyer if you've got a Championship club, on a stable footing financially with its own ground. Currently they've spunked however many 10's of millions and have a product that's worth nothing; even if they can get half of their money back it's better than nothing.

The problem is who in their right mind is going to buy a Championship Club whose ground only holds 12,000.
Sisu could not recoup anywhere near enough money to make it viable. Bear in mind the supposed debt by
then would be upwards of £120m.

It goes back to why not offer the council that kind of money for the Ricoh though? While the Council have said it's not for sale you suspect they'd have to consider any reasonable offer.

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

Simon Gilbert has the Telegraph ever asked this question?

I know it wasn't asked last time when JS get a free ticket for a propaganda piece with Lex Reid.

Is it about time for another interview with her it's been six months maybe a quick update interview.

wingy · Feb 27, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Reading was sold for 50 million
What did you get for that?

Reading are currently In negotiation for
£50M. After virtual takeover for 40 by A Russian around 18 months ago
They own ground hotel decent academy
have around 3more years of Parachute money £36M.
A well run Club

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

shmmeee said:
Sorry, just to check, we're talking about the total cost of the new stadium right?

Yes, he's been asked. The closest we've had to a reply is "something like Rotherhams". The question was asked of all the panel at the Stadium Forum and again at the Stadium Committee Selection Meeting, and Sandra said she had no idea. Several people asked how we can give ideas without an idea of a budget and she dodged the question.

It's all dodgy as hell Don.

I am more thinking

Has he been asked how SISU will recoup their money in the end
Once the debt to build the stadium is added to the current debt.

They will need to sell the club and stadium for some serious money to clear that combined debt.

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

wingy said:
Reading are currently In negotiation for
£50M. After virtual takeover for 40 by A Russian around 18 months ago
They own ground hotel decent academy
have around 3more years of Parachute money £36M.
A well run Club

Wow so if they can only get 50 million for all that.

What would we get for a 12k stadium no hotel and the rest

shmmeee · Feb 27, 2014

dongonzalos said:
I am more thinking

Has he been asked how SISU will recoup their money in the end
Once the debt to build the stadium is added to the current debt.

They will need to sell the club and stadium for some serious money to clear that combined debt.

Oh, sorry.

"We're in it for the long term" I believe is the party line on that one.

chiefdave · Feb 27, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Has he actually been asked and refused to answer?

Both Fisher (at the forums) and Labovich (on CWR) have been asked how it was going to be funded and they said they weren't able to answer as they didn't know yet but a mix of investment and borrowing. If they don't even know how they're going to pay for it there's no chance they know how they're going to get the money back.

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

shmmeee said:
Oh, sorry.

"We're in it for the long term" I believe is the party line on that one.

Cheers.

But how long at some point they will need to sell.

The club on a monthly basis will not be able to make profit to diffidently outweigh the interest on the debt.

So it is unlikely they would be chipping the debt away over the long haul

Hobo · Feb 27, 2014

Let's face it until you have land and a location you can't even start to do the maths.

That's why SISU's game plan over the Ricoh is transparent.

Unfortunately they don't have the finances to build a new stadium (and a suitable location doesn't exist), they don't have the finances to buy the Ricoh, or even a share.

Unfortunately they are now trying to hang on in there for scraps, or, ACL capitulate.

The downside is liquidation is a final option!

RegTheDonk · Feb 27, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Has anyone ever provided an explanation into how SISU will in the long term recoup their money.
If they have to borrow 20-40 million to build a new stadium. If we are 30-70 million in debt.

Even if you take the lesser of these ball park figures. That's 50 million.

I think it is highly unlikely to be the lesser of the figures but if it is. Can they sell CCFC and a 12k stadium for 50 million?

Has JS or Mr Fisher ever been asked this direct question. Is any of the supporters groups or the stadium group in a position to ask it. Can anyone in the media if you read this site please ask.

If it has been asked and answered in a acceptable way then apologies for the thread and please let me know.

hopefully after the first five 'oh good another stadium thread' comments I may get a sensible answer. .....

This is what I have always wondered myself Don ... plus, thats assuming 12K will go and watch them every week. How sellable a business would a 3rd tier outfit be in a stadium if only a few thousand turn up?

I'll also add a couple more thoughts into the financial mix .... lets suppose some miracle happened and City got into the Prem. Even with full houses and pie and burger money (assuming SISU gave them to the manager), would that be enough income under FFP to support a team of quality players to keep us up?

The only profitable going concern, worth the kind of money SISU would probably demand, would have to be a club in this kind of position. But an investor would have to realise that to keep us up, under FFP he'd have so spend more money on increasing the capacity - and hope we didn't get relegated in the process.

SISU need the Ricoh at a rock bottom price, to keep the re-sale value acceptable. IMHO of course.

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

chiefdave said:
Both Fisher (at the forums) and Labovich (on CWR) have been asked how it was going to be funded and they said they weren't able to answer as they didn't know yet but a mix of investment and borrowing. If they don't even know how they're going to pay for it there's no chance they know how they're going to get the money back.

I disagree if they know the money will come from a mixture of borrowing and investment. They have to have a long term objective.
Which will be sell the combined package clear the debt. They are not Coventry fans they are a business so they need to recoup the cash.

So they need to be asked this

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

Hobo said:
Let's face it until you have land and a location you can't even start to do the maths.

That's why SISU's game plan over the Ricoh is transparent.

Unfortunately they don't have the finances to build a new stadium (and a suitable location doesn't exist), they don't have the finances to buy the Ricoh, or even a share.

Unfortunately they are now trying to hang on in there for scraps, or, ACL capitulate.

The downside is liquidation is a final option!

They can't just liquidate though can they hobo.
Up for sake has to come first?

A lot really does rest on the JR decision

Hobo · Feb 27, 2014

dongonzalos said:
They can't just liquidate though can they hobo.
Up for sake has to come first?

A lot really does rest on the JR decision

Jr is their last throw of dice? However cant decipher your post, probably due to spellcheck interference?

lordsummerisle · Feb 27, 2014

They could probably get Nuneaton in on a ground share, move the Speedway Team in, host reserve games for Leicester City, West Brom etc.

The money making potential is endless out there apparently.

coop · Feb 27, 2014

They never had the £6 million to buy the higgs share of the ricoh a stadium already up and running and would start making money from day one so this new stadium is bullshit

wingy · Feb 27, 2014

coop said:
They never had the £6 million to buy the higgs share of the ricoh a stadium already up and running and would start making money from day one so this new stadium is bullshit

Nah but Greg Clark Says they're minted

The Gentleman · Feb 27, 2014

hill83 said:
No idea. And it's all ballpark guessing games so there won't be an answer for you.

But wasn't that part of the prerequisite of the stuff they had to show the FL, so they must have some idea or otherwise all they said to the FL was we're going to build a stadium, we don't know where, we don't know how much it'll cost and we don't know when, but it will happen, honest guv.

hill83 · Feb 27, 2014

The Gentleman said:
But wasn't that part of the prerequisite of the stuff they had to show the FL, so they must have some idea or otherwise all they said to the FL was we're going to build a stadium, we don't know where, we don't know how much it'll cost and we don't know when, but it will happen, honest guv.

No idea. And it's all ballpark guessing games so there won't be an answer for you.

Astute · Feb 27, 2014

shmmeee said:
Oh, sorry.

"We're in it for the long term" I believe is the party line on that one.

"We won't sell at the bottom"

Hopefully that means they will sell before we reach the bottom.

The Gentleman · Feb 27, 2014

hill83 said:
No idea. And it's all ballpark guessing games so there won't be an answer for you.

I know but my point is, the FL granted this ridiculous move to Sixfields on the basis that they were shown clear evidence of Sisu's plan, in that there must have been some form of numbers else how would they say they are funding it? I don't buy the flimsy capitol and borrowing line so the FL have got to be accountable if this all goes tits up, because they sanctioned the whole thing.

hill83 · Feb 27, 2014

The Gentleman said:
I know but my point is, the FL granted this ridiculous move to Sixfields on the basis that they were shown clear evidence of Sisu's plan, in that there must have been some form of numbers else how would they say they are funding it? I don't buy the flimsy capitol and borrowing line so the FL have got to be accountable if this all goes tits up, because they sanctioned the whole thing.

I completely agree with you. I could easily copy and paste my repeated post again though.

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

Astute said:
"We won't sell at the bottom"

Hopefully that means they will sell before we reach the bottom.

Exactly they intend to sell

The top will need to cover somewhere between 50-100 million depending in which debt figures SISU release that is true.

Is it feasible that CCFC, lets humour them and say in the championship plus a 12k capacity stadium will sell for 50-100 million.

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

hill83 said:
I completely agree with you. I could easily copy and paste my repeated post again though.

SISU know the answer that's the point. Have they been asked and pinned down on it.
If not has anyone got access to them who can

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