Next Years Budget Projections (1 Viewer)

ccfcway · Jan 17, 2012

So, someone has posted on CT website income for next year (when we go down). Not sure how much he knows, but is talking about the projections SISU have submitted.

Season Ticket Sales £1.1 million
Match Day Attendanace £2.5 million
Sponsorship / TV etc £1.2 million

Leaving an income of £4.8 million

Overheads (inc rent and non playing staff costs ) are 2 million

All of this leaves 2.8 million for transfers and wages.

At 3k a week, a 18 player squad would cost the full 2.8 million.

That would be witrh no transfers including "free" as they would require signing on fee.

INVESTMENT IS NEEDED !!!

Skyblueloyal · Jan 17, 2012

Thought we had already spent next years Season ticket money ?

chiefdave · Jan 17, 2012

it's sounding like it has in which case paying back the loan, not accounting for interest, would mean we can only afford to pay 11 players. Let's hope we don't get any injurys next year

rob9872 · Jan 17, 2012

I hope that we don't have 18 players on £3k in L1. If that is the average wage in there, then no wonder so many clubs are struggling.

Tankie · Jan 17, 2012

Hi fellas.
I don't think we can speculate on next years budget, it must depend on who owns us next season, But if it is still SiSu, I think the budget will be zero, and gates of six thousand, we must all pray that Sisu take whatever offer is availiable, and leave for good.

Senior Vick from Alicante · Jan 17, 2012

As has already been pointed out the season ticket money has already been loaned against, as renewals would be down if relegated this figure is wide of the mark. Also it does not mention mortgage repayments on Ryton training ground or the monies SISU are obviously paying themselves back to pay off their initial loan to the club to stop administration. More smoke and mirrors unless someone is making the balance sheet look better when selling a business. PUSB

wingy · Jan 17, 2012

Crowds of 10,000 @ av £15 per ticket would generate £3.9m.,Canb't see much walk up business,dependent on team position ,but realistically with Sisu here i can see ST's of 5-6000 so total crowd 7000 -8000,so around £3m. ,tv /league income is around £300,000,so less than £4m. from where i'm sitting

oldskyblue58 · Jan 17, 2012

Think the income figure is a reasonable estimation (is 50% of the turnover for 2010). Being simplistic if you divide the 2010 turnover (from all sources £9291108) by the average crowd for the season (17305) you get £537 - use that to divide the buget total income and you get an average crowd of 8938 in league 1. My guess is it will be between 9 and 10K pw. Factor in price reductions gimmicks etc and £4.8m isnt far away - but could be perhaps less

That sets a max budget for player salaries per FFP rules of 55% total income = £2.64m Dont think we can compete on 18 players in squad need more like 24 = average wage per player at £2115 (the youngsters wont get that and more experienced will get more)

Why overheads are thought to drop to 2m in total I am not sure - perhaps a rent reduction is expected ? but overheads/direct costs 2010 accounts were over £4m- think that £2m will be a little light in the budget - reckon will be nearer £3m

There might still be player contracts to write down and some interest to pay out on the loans other than SISU's - say cost of £500K

Income £4.8m
Expenses £6.14
loss £1.34m

Only way to balance books is to sell players. The player signing policy will have to be biased towards developing our own youth and bringing into first team plus perhaps sourcing youngsters elsewhere. Even then we will need to sell £1.5m worth of players each and every year.

Without selling players there will be no money to bring in new ones. First thing that will have to happen is to cash in on some players to provide cash flow to operate and perhaps find new players. In the next 12 months we will need to source £1.5m in player sales (other than sales to keep going now eg Juke) and hope we out perform the budget

Also from what I can see at Company House there is a charge on shares in SBS&L which was to do with the Prozone deal - and there is a charge over all the assets of CCFC Holdings which is in favour of SBS&L. Not sure there are any other charges presently and looks like charge over Ryton has been cleared

Going to be tough year no matter who is in charge - the issues will be the same whoever owns us

wingy · Jan 17, 2012

I see what your basing it on OSB but your method does'nt factor in reduced tv/league money currently £2+m. down to less than£.5m.

oldskyblue58 · Jan 17, 2012

I agree wingy - but it is all guesswork really. We might take division 1 by storm and have bigger crowds. In my mind though the likely total income will be no more than £4.8m and like you say it could be a lot less

chiefdave · Jan 17, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
We might take division 1 by storm and have bigger crowds.

have you been at the whiskey?

it would be interesting to see what kind of crowds we get if we started doing well in Div 1 but I imagine most of our fans would just find another reason not to go.

When we've been up in the play off positions prior to our post Xmas slumps of past seasons it doesn't seem to have made a huge difference to the crowds so it's easy to imagine the apathy a lot of fans have would see the crowds increasing at a much slower rate than they decreased.

Jack Griffin · Jan 17, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
We might take division 1 by storm

I may be an auld fecker.. but to my mind it is DIVISION 3 - the third tier of English Football. Don't be conned by the rebranding exercise (not that I'm suggesting OSB has been).

oldskyblue58 · Jan 17, 2012

doesnt matter what they call it ........... its still the 3rd division i agree jack

oldskyblue58 · Jan 17, 2012

chiefdave said:
have you been at the whiskey?

it would be interesting to see what kind of crowds we get if we started doing well in Div 1 but I imagine most of our fans would just find another reason not to go.

When we've been up in the play off positions prior to our post Xmas slumps of past seasons it doesn't seem to have made a huge difference to the crowds so it's easy to imagine the apathy a lot of fans have would see the crowds increasing at a much slower rate than they decreased.

Just a moment of "dreaming" ......... whats it come to when you dream of the 3rd tier division !!! :facepalm:

By no means guaranteed reality as you make clear

time for another brandy i think

Godiva · Jan 17, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
Think the income figure is a reasonable estimation (is 50% of the turnover for 2010). Being simplistic if you divide the 2010 turnover (from all sources £9291108) by the average crowd for the season (17305) you get £537 - use that to divide the buget total income and you get an average crowd of 8938 in league 1. My guess is it will be between 9 and 10K pw. Factor in price reductions gimmicks etc and £4.8m isnt far away - but could be perhaps less

That sets a max budget for player salaries per FFP rules of 55% total income = £2.64m Dont think we can compete on 18 players in squad need more like 24 = average wage per player at £2115 (the youngsters wont get that and more experienced will get more)

Why overheads are thought to drop to 2m in total I am not sure - perhaps a rent reduction is expected ? but overheads/direct costs 2010 accounts were over £4m- think that £2m will be a little light in the budget - reckon will be nearer £3m

There might still be player contracts to write down and some interest to pay out on the loans other than SISU's - say cost of £500K

Income £4.8m
Expenses £6.14
loss £1.34m

Only way to balance books is to sell players. The player signing policy will have to be biased towards developing our own youth and bringing into first team plus perhaps sourcing youngsters elsewhere. Even then we will need to sell £1.5m worth of players each and every year.

Without selling players there will be no money to bring in new ones. First thing that will have to happen is to cash in on some players to provide cash flow to operate and perhaps find new players. In the next 12 months we will need to source £1.5m in player sales (other than sales to keep going now eg Juke) and hope we out perform the budget

Also from what I can see at Company House there is a charge on shares in SBS&L which was to do with the Prozone deal - and there is a charge over all the assets of CCFC Holdings which is in favour of SBS&L. Not sure there are any other charges presently and looks like charge over Ryton has been cleared

Going to be tough year no matter who is in charge - the issues will be the same whoever owns us

Yes, it will be a tough next season - just like this one, but all transitions are tough. We have on many occasions discussed the need for halting the finacial decline and overspending the club have been subjected to for 15 years or so. And - as you point out - no matter who the owners are they will have to balance the books.
We may not be far away from achieving break-even.

A sell of Cranie and Clingan this window should provide cash to cover some of next seasons costs and at the same time reduce the wage bill further towards the FFP regulation.

In any case ... an operational loss of £1.5m before player trading looks manageable.

If somehow the Save-Our-City campaign can really shake off the Sisu-Out-Campaign image and start to work with whoever is in charge of the club, then I see the possibility to pull through and end the downward spiral we've been in for decades.

davebart · Jan 17, 2012

a 1.5m loss is not manageable. It isn't manageable in this division and it certainly won't be in the division below. We won't have players worth millions in Div 1 to cover any losses.

Don't expect entrance fees to be reduced either. You pay £18 to see Grimsby in BSP. They made a £900,000 loss last season.

albatross · Jan 17, 2012

Has antone taken into account VAT on ticket sales 20% belongs to the Govt plus any NI contributions that are payable by any employer.

This would nean that at least 20% of our income from tickets has to be discounted , if we have already borrowed money on next years ticket sales at some point we will receive a VAT bill for them on money we have already spent!

Godiva · Jan 17, 2012

albatross said:
Has antone taken into account VAT on ticket sales 20% belongs to the Govt plus any NI contributions that are payable by any employer.

This would nean that at least 20% of our income from tickets has to be discounted , if we have already borrowed money on next years ticket sales at some point we will receive a VAT bill for them on money we have already spent!

All maths have most likely been done excluding VAT.

The thing about next years season tickets have been going round in circles - it is most likely the CURRENT season tickets that were factored in pre-season.

albatross · Jan 17, 2012

Its hard to tell ......but one sure fire thing that brings things to a head is when HM Govt come calling for their cash. This is what sparked the last "investment round" from SISU. they will be the ones to push us into admin

lordsummerisle · Jan 17, 2012

10 pence on a packet of fags and a penny a pint.

Jack Griffin · Jan 17, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
Also from what I can see at Company House there is a charge on shares in SBS&L which was to do with the Prozone deal - and there is a charge over all the assets of CCFC Holdings which is in favour of SBS&L. Not sure there are any other charges presently and looks like charge over Ryton has been cleared

Yeah, I looked at that too thinking it was the loan against next years season ticket sales, but it only mentioned Prozone. Which makes me wonder what information Keys is basing his claim on, if any. On the other hand I've been told Joe Elliott said much the same thing, but that is hearsay & I can't verify that he actually did say any such thing.

ccfcway · Jan 17, 2012

Jack Griffin said:
Yeah, I looked at that too thinking it was the loan against next years season ticket sales, but it only mentioned Prozone. Which makes me wonder what information Keys is basing his claim on, if any. On the other hand I've been told Joe Elliott said much the same thing, but that is hearsay & I can't verify that he actually did say any such thing.

Joe Elliot told you that SISU have taken a loan out on "Hear-Say", havent they split up ?

Is there nothing this lot wont do ?

ronan_cov · Apr 22, 2012

Cut the crap you dont need at a football club and spend it on what we need

Next Years Budget Projections (1 Viewer)

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