No Surrender ACL (2 Viewers)

skybluegaz2 · Jun 16, 2013

To all you morons thinking ACL should go begging to SISU to get them to use the Ricoh - Springsteen at the Ricoh! Muse at the Ricoh ! Snooker at the Ricoh ! Olympics at the Ricoh ! etc etc.

ACL only want class at the Ricoh and CERTAINLY don't need SISU's halfpenny contributions when they are quite nicely surviving on their own.

NO SURRENDER ACL :claping hands:

Greggs · Jun 16, 2013

Monster trucks...........

fernandopartridge · Jun 16, 2013

skybluegaz2 said:
To all you morons thinking ACL should go begging to SISU to get them to use the Ricoh - Springsteen at the Ricoh! Muse at the Ricoh ! Snooker at the Ricoh ! Olympics at the Ricoh ! etc etc.

ACL only want class at the Ricoh and CERTAINLY don't need SISU's halfpenny contributions when they are quite nicely surviving on their own.

NO SURRENDER ACL :claping hands:

Not the same ACL that were on the brink of insolvency not long ago (according to Fisher, not denied by ACL)? The successful company that had a tax payer funded bail out?

Flying Fokker · Jun 16, 2013

And so the wheels continue to turn.

Sick Boy · Jun 16, 2013

skybluegaz2 said:
To all you morons thinking ACL should go begging to SISU to get them to use the Ricoh - Springsteen at the Ricoh! Muse at the Ricoh ! Snooker at the Ricoh ! Olympics at the Ricoh ! etc etc.

ACL only want class at the Ricoh and CERTAINLY don't need SISU's halfpenny contributions when they are quite nicely surviving on their own.

NO SURRENDER ACL :claping hands:

hahaha, ludicrous. They are very clearly not 'nicely surviving on their own'.

Clear off 'ACL-troll'.

RogerH · Jun 16, 2013

I know we all want to play at the Ricoh, but the fear I have is that once you let SISU get their foot back in the door, they won't rest until all the arena is under SISU control.

I believe that is their ultimate aim, too bad some fans can't see the big picture and only care about sitting in their favourite seats on Saturday afternoons.

Flying Fokker · Jun 16, 2013

What's all this 'no surrender' stuff anyway? You a Rangers fan?

hutch1972 · Jun 16, 2013

RogerH said:
I know we all want to play at the Ricoh, but the fear I have is that once you let SISU get their foot back in the door, they won't rest until all the arena is under SISU control.

I believe that is their ultimate aim, too bad some fans can't see the big picture and only care about sitting in their favourite seats on Saturday afternoons.

With the sale of ltd back to sisu ( if indeed the FL sign it off ) the only way we will ever see the back of sisu is by them buying at least a half share of the stadium and selling on.
Nobody is going to buy this club as it stands because its just a way of pouring money down the drain, we will continue to go around in circles on this issue untill the club owns at least a half share , and in my opinion if sisu are the ones to get this moving so be it.
As painful as it might seem i just can't think of any other way round it.
Sisu have shown they cannot run a football club, ACL have shown they have little expertise in running what should be a world class venue, and the council are just interested in saving their own skins.

covmark · Jun 16, 2013

skybluegaz2 said:
To all you morons thinking ACL should go begging to SISU to get them to use the Ricoh - Springsteen at the Ricoh! Muse at the Ricoh ! Snooker at the Ricoh ! Olympics at the Ricoh ! etc etc.

ACL only want class at the Ricoh and CERTAINLY don't need SISU's halfpenny contributions when they are quite nicely surviving on their own.

NO SURRENDER ACL :claping hands:

I can't believe some of the tripe I read on here sometimes. Oh well ccfc can go down the pan but at least we'll still have ACL

SLOnAir · Jun 16, 2013

skybluegaz2 said:
To all you morons thinking ACL should go begging to SISU to get them to use the Ricoh - Springsteen at the Ricoh! Muse at the Ricoh ! Snooker at the Ricoh ! Olympics at the Ricoh ! etc etc.

ACL only want class at the Ricoh and CERTAINLY don't need SISU's halfpenny contributions when they are quite nicely surviving on their own.

NO SURRENDER ACL :claping hands:

I should know better than to jump in here when I am under pressure time-wise (Father's Day and all that), but what you have written is not the basis for a sustainable business. If only it was.

I am genuinely not taking sides in this, but the Ricoh without an anchor tenant using the bowl, whether it's Coventry City Football Club or not, has no future. And if it's not going to be Coventry City Football Club, I await with bated breath what or who it will be.

Surely what we should all (ACL included - in fact, particularly ACL) do now is put the ownership issue to one side for the time being at least and work out a way in which the club can continue to use the Ricoh - not just for 3 years but long-term.

And anyone who sees my comments or anyone else who takes a similar view as 'pro-Sisu" or 'anti-ACL' is missing the point big time. What we ALL should surely be is pro-Sky Blues. If you really want the club to leave Coventry and the Ricoh to become who knows what, then yes - yell "NO SURRENDER" at the top of your voice. I would prefer to "sing together" and "fight till the game is won". The most important thing must be the future of the club and keeping Coventry on the football map.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 16, 2013

skybluegaz2 said:
To all you morons thinking ACL should go begging to SISU to get them to use the Ricoh - Springsteen at the Ricoh! Muse at the Ricoh ! Snooker at the Ricoh ! Olympics at the Ricoh ! etc etc.

ACL only want class at the Ricoh and CERTAINLY don't need SISU's halfpenny contributions when they are quite nicely surviving on their own.

NO SURRENDER ACL :claping hands:

If ACL were to take this stance, they'd only shoot themselves in the foot, as the RICOH would be sure to become a 'white elephant' but more importantly, CCFC would be forced from the RICOH (something we all ought to avoid?) which would damage the club whilst it moves into HR2 is built as we'd see a massive cut in revenue which would only destabilise the club and in fact put the club on the brink of extinction, so, what you're calling for would only be a bad thing, you've made yourself look incredibly ill informed.

Samo · Jun 16, 2013

hutch1972 said:
With the sale of ltd back to sisu ( if indeed the FL sign it off ) the only way we will ever see the back of sisu is by them buying at least a half share of the stadium and selling on.
Nobody is going to buy this club as it stands because its just a way of pouring money down the drain, we will continue to go around in circles on this issue untill the club owns at least a half share , and in my opinion if sisu are the ones to get this moving so be it.
As painful as it might seem i just can't think of any other way round it.
Sisu have shown they cannot run a football club, ACL have shown they have little expertise in running what should be a world class venue, and the council are just interested in saving their own skins.

A sale of the club is perfectly feasible, the buyer simply has to have an agreement in place to buy the stadium.

Jack Griffin · Jun 16, 2013

CCFC can't afford to finance a new stadium either.

The real problem always has been the nature of negotiation instead of seeking a middle way that works for all parties this is what they do (only more serious).
But I think the main blame for the attitude lies with SISU, they have form.

stupot07 · Jun 16, 2013

skybluegaz2 said:
To all you morons thinking ACL should go begging to SISU to get them to use the Ricoh - Springsteen at the Ricoh! Muse at the Ricoh ! Snooker at the Ricoh ! Olympics at the Ricoh ! etc etc.

ACL only want class at the Ricoh and CERTAINLY don't need SISU's halfpenny contributions when they are quite nicely surviving on their own.

NO SURRENDER ACL :claping hands:

Sisu would love them to take that stance, they could then legitimately shift the blame and claim that ACL have made them homeless and have no alternative but to play elsewhere.

We all want the club to play in Coventry, the stakeholders should be doing all they can to make that happen.

shropshirecov · Jun 16, 2013

skybluegaz2 said:
To all you morons thinking ACL should go begging to SISU to get them to use the Ricoh - Springsteen at the Ricoh! Muse at the Ricoh ! Snooker at the Ricoh ! Olympics at the Ricoh ! etc etc.

ACL only want class at the Ricoh and CERTAINLY don't need SISU's halfpenny contributions when they are quite nicely surviving on their own.

NO SURRENDER ACL :claping hands:

Compass would be delighted to cater for those couple of events a year! And Ricoh would be over the moon that they paid to sponsor a football stadium without a footbal team! Genius

torchomatic · Jun 16, 2013

For once, I agree with you. SISU won't be laughing once the Olympic Football kicks off again next month.

skybluegaz2 said:
To all you morons thinking ACL should go begging to SISU to get them to use the Ricoh - Springsteen at the Ricoh! Muse at the Ricoh ! Snooker at the Ricoh ! Olympics at the Ricoh ! etc etc.

ACL only want class at the Ricoh and CERTAINLY don't need SISU's halfpenny contributions when they are quite nicely surviving on their own.

NO SURRENDER ACL :claping hands:

oakey · Jun 16, 2013

CCFC need the Ricoh more than ACL need CCFC.
Time to do a reasonable deal for both parties. Time for CCFC to put the fans before their arrogance.

torchomatic · Jun 16, 2013

Disagree entirely on your first point, but agree that both parties need to do a deal.

oakey said:
CCFC need the Ricoh more than ACL need CCFC.
Time to do a reasonable deal for both parties. Time for CCFC to put the fans before their arrogance.

shropshirecov · Jun 16, 2013

oakey said:
CCFC need the Ricoh more than ACL need CCFC.
Time to do a reasonable deal for both parties. Time for CCFC to put the fans before their arrogance.

Other way round.

Why are some people desparate for a seperate company that makes money from the football club to thrive? Surely you'd rather the football club thrive?

oakey · Jun 16, 2013

torchomatic said:
Disagree entirely on your first point, but agree that both parties need to do a deal.

If TF takes the club away the club will become insolvent very quickly again. ACL can survive for several years, with council backing, if they have to. They could even sell the Ricoh and cut losses, then fold ACL.
Even though SISU appear to have won the battle they have not broken ACL, which was their long term aim. It just depends now if ACL and CCC want to continue. I suspect it will suit all parties to come to an agreement.

oakey · Jun 16, 2013

shropshirecov said:
Other way round.

Why are some people desparate for a seperate company that makes money from the football club to thrive? Surely you'd rather the football club thrive?

I couldn't care less about ACL or CCC. I see them purely as a third party we have to deal with. No sentiment involved at all but they control the asset we want access to in order to thrive.

torchomatic · Jun 16, 2013

The key point there is "with council backing". Any loss making company can survive is someone keeps chucking money at it. I wonder if all the ones with Mighty Morals would be happy with that as they complain constantly how SISU are distressing the Council and a charity. Would the people of Coventry be happy with the Council taking money from the coffers to keep ACL going?

The important thing now is to stay at the Ricoh and both ACL and SISU need to make concessions for that to happen.

oakey said:
If TF takes the club away the club will become insolvent very quickly again. ACL can survive for several years, with council backing, if they have to. They could even sell the Ricoh and cut losses, then fold ACL.
Even though SISU appear to have won the battle they have not broken ACL, which was their long term aim. It just depends now if ACL and CCC want to continue. I suspect it will suit all parties to come to an agreement.

oakey · Jun 16, 2013

I don't think it odd that CCC support a company they helped create to run a council owned property. Indeed they would be failing in their duties to help build the Ricoh and then fail to ensure it is viable. Why would they allow it to fall into the hands of people they don't trust? None of that is my concern. ACL and CCC are like any other third party in whom I have no interest.
Imagine Tesco own the arena instead. Would we be talking about which side we are on? No. We would not expect any favours from Tesco. We would expect CCFC to make a commercially viable deal.
However, there are no sides. Only CCFC owe us fans anything. ACL and CCC do not. CCFC owe it to the fans to do a deal that ensures we stay in Coventry. Do the deal.

Nonleagueherewecome · Jun 16, 2013

oakey said:
CCFC need the Ricoh more than ACL need CCFC.
Time to do a reasonable deal for both parties. Time for CCFC to put the fans before their arrogance.

ACL have already tried that but the goalposts kept moving with SISU. Something they evidently have form for..

SkyBlueBlood · Jun 16, 2013

hutch1972 said:
With the sale of ltd back to sisu ( if indeed the FL sign it off ) the only way we will ever see the back of sisu is by them buying at least a half share of the stadium and selling on.
Nobody is going to buy this club as it stands because its just a way of pouring money down the drain, we will continue to go around in circles on this issue untill the club owns at least a half share , and in my opinion if sisu are the ones to get this moving so be it.
As painful as it might seem i just can't think of any other way round it.
Sisu have shown they cannot run a football club, ACL have shown they have little expertise in running what should be a world class venue, and the council are just interested in saving their own skins.

You are clearly right, nobody is going to buy the club, oh except the other 3 bidders?????????????????

Sick Boy · Jun 16, 2013

SkyBlueBlood said:
You are clearly right, nobody is going to buy the club, oh except the other 3 bidders?????????????????

hahha...yea, alright.

Grendel · Jun 16, 2013

SkyBlueBlood said:
You are clearly right, nobody is going to buy the club, oh except the other 3 bidders?????????????????

I'm going to find a house worth £5 million that's sold STC and put a bid in of £50,000.

Then I'll point at it in the property guide and tell everyone at work I bidded for that house - just missed out.

skybluegaz2 · Jun 16, 2013

Like I said - what happened to the SISU outers - it seems Fisher has played a blinder - you lot have no scruples. You still want to put money in SISU's pockets. How can you want SISU out yet still harp on about ACL doing a deal? The ONLY way to get SISU out is NOT to give them a ground and NOT pay admission money. There are a lot of people who would pay to watch AFC Coventry at the Ricoh, NOT SISU Coventry City FC. Apart from Grendel and Sick Boy of course - who woil;d follow SISU to the ends of the earth - the point is, I and many others hope you have to !!!!!

Grendel · Jun 16, 2013

skybluegaz2 said:
Like I said - what happened to the SISU outers - it seems Fisher has played a blinder - you lot have no scruples. You still want to put money in SISU's pockets. How can you want SISU out yet still harp on about ACL doing a deal? The ONLY way to get SISU out is NOT to give them a ground and NOT pay admission money. There are a lot of people who would pay to watch AFC Coventry at the Ricoh, NOT SISU Coventry City FC. Apart from Grendel and Sick Boy of course - who woil;d follow SISU to the ends of the earth - the point is, I and many others hope you have to !!!!!

You'll be defacing a cricket pitch soon with the words ACL are innocent.

Jimmy Percey may be able to make some money out of it.

Sick Boy · Jun 16, 2013

skybluegaz2 said:
Like I said - what happened to the SISU outers - it seems Fisher has played a blinder - you lot have no scruples. You still want to put money in SISU's pockets. How can you want SISU out yet still harp on about ACL doing a deal? The ONLY way to get SISU out is NOT to give them a ground and NOT pay admission money. There are a lot of people who would pay to watch AFC Coventry at the Ricoh, NOT SISU Coventry City FC. Apart from Grendel and Sick Boy of course - who woil;d follow SISU to the ends of the earth - the point is, I and many others hope you have to !!!!!

It is possible to be critical of both ACL and sisu. I previously suffered abuse for being critical of sisu's appointment of Thorn when the majority of here couldn't get enough of him.

I have no sympathy for SISU or ACL, both are as bad as each and the sooner they are both gone the better.

A non-league ccfc at the ricoh?! Hahaha...don't make me laugh.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 16, 2013

skybluegaz2 said:
Like I said - what happened to the SISU outers - it seems Fisher has played a blinder - you lot have no scruples. You still want to put money in SISU's pockets. How can you want SISU out yet still harp on about ACL doing a deal? The ONLY way to get SISU out is NOT to give them a ground and NOT pay admission money. There are a lot of people who would pay to watch AFC Coventry at the Ricoh, NOT SISU Coventry City FC. Apart from Grendel and Sick Boy of course - who woil;d follow SISU to the ends of the earth - the point is, I and many others hope you have to !!!!!

Yes, and most of that money that we give to SISU goes back into the club one way or the other, bills, players' wages etc.

Now, when you buy a hotdog, pie, fizzy drink for extortionate prices, you wouldn't, well, I wouldn't feel as bad if I knew some of the money went to CCFC, but ironically, we're 'lining ACL's pocket' (and the kiosks and Compass) when we buy anything from the ground - quite the irony isn't it?

duffer · Jun 16, 2013

Whether ACL can survive or not without CCFC is debateable. Even if you're not convinced by the current accounts (which are a lot clearer than SISU's!), if there's truly no need for a football stadium then there's a few quid to be made from all of the other things that could be developed there.

I think the far less likely business plan is SISU's current idea for the club. Play away from home for three or more seasons, and suffer a massive loss in fanbase and income whilst planning and building a brand new stadium. Then magically recoup all of your existing and additional losses from the extra F & B revenues and the vast amount of additional business that an out-of-town 8-12,000 seater ground can generate. Any way that you do the numbers for this it simply doesn't stack up. They've had to pay themselves £700k in interest in the last set of accounts - how is that going to reduce on the debt spree that they're about to embark on?

And as it stands, they're still obliged to come to some kind of deal with ACL for the stadium lease, which is still in existence for another forty-plus years at £1.2m. How's it all going to work, I wonder.

I'm guessing for a temporary solution where there's a negotiated even lower rent at the Ricoh for a set period whilst in L1, increasing if promotion happens. The £600k that SISU will be obliged to pay to ACL for exiting Admin will soften that blow somewhat.

Both sides will need to save face for this to work, but I think it's gone too far for anyone at ACL to sell to SISU.

Assuming something like this happens, I think SISU will then look to offload sharpish and cut their losses. There's clearly some interest in the club, as we've seen.

Just mho, and idle speculation, as ever.

skybluegaz2 · Jun 16, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Yes, and most of that money that we give to SISU goes back into the club one way or the other, bills, players' wages etc.

Now, when you buy a hotdog, pie, fizzy drink for extortionate prices, you wouldn't, well, I wouldn't feel as bad if I knew some of the money went to CCFC, but ironically, we're 'lining ACL's pocket' (and the kiosks and Compass) when we buy anything from the ground - quite the irony isn't it?

Blah Blah. Most of the money you give goes into the various holding companies as "director" payments etc. Add SKy Blue Taylor to my previous lists. Question: did SISU pay ANYTHING towards the Ricoh - NO. Did ACL - oy, yes they did. If SISU want the Ricoh, let them pay £40m+ for it (or whatever it cost to build) - not try and get it thru the backdoor. You SISU lot are so unbelievable.

crowsnest · Jun 16, 2013

skybluegaz2 said:
Blah Blah. Most of the money you give goes into the various holding companies as "director" payments etc. Add SKy Blue Taylor to my previous lists. Question: did SISU pay ANYTHING towards the Ricoh - NO. Did ACL - oy, yes they did. If SISU want the Ricoh, let them pay £40m+ for it (or whatever it cost to build) - not try and get it thru the backdoor. You SISU lot are so unbelievable.

ACL paid nothing towards the build of the Ricoh.

CCFC paid £2m

Sisu came in after it was built

(Figures taken from official council documents.)

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Jun 16, 2013

duffer said:
Whether ACL can survive or not without CCFC is debateable. Even if you're not convinced by the current accounts (which are a lot clearer than SISU's!), if there's truly no need for a football stadium then there's a few quid to be made from all of the other things that could be developed there.

I think the far less likely business plan is SISU's current idea for the club. Play away from home for three or more seasons, and suffer a massive loss in fanbase and income whilst planning and building a brand new stadium. Then magically recoup all of your existing and additional losses from the extra F & B revenues and the vast amount of additional business that an out-of-town 8-12,000 seater ground can generate. Any way that you do the numbers for this it simply doesn't stack up. They've had to pay themselves £700k in interest in the last set of accounts - how is that going to reduce on the debt spree that they're about to embark on?

And as it stands, they're still obliged to come to some kind of deal with ACL for the stadium lease, which is still in existence for another forty-plus years at £1.2m. How's it all going to work, I wonder.

I'm guessing for a temporary solution where there's a negotiated even lower rent at the Ricoh for a set period whilst in L1, increasing if promotion happens. The £600k that SISU will be obliged to pay to ACL for exiting Admin will soften that blow somewhat.

Both sides will need to save face for this to work, but I think it's gone too far for anyone at ACL to sell to SISU.

Assuming something like this happens, I think SISU will then look to offload sharpish and cut their losses. There's clearly some interest in the club, as we've seen.

Just mho, and idle speculation, as ever.

A good post.

One thing is for sure, the last set of accounts for ACL, filed at a time when the rent dispute was ongoing and therefore the fragile relationship with the club would have been taken into account; shows that ACL is a going concern. The auditors would have factored this into their thinking.

However, CCFC without the Ricoh makes no sense. Much less sense than the Ricoh without the club. The reduced crowds, and low turnover would have a disastrous influence on squad funding after the first season; and relegation would be a real concern. That would be 4th tier football before any new stadium, and all these fabled F&B's and sponsorship opportunities present themselves. By which time, there are no customers to enjoy this supposed yield from.

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