No Surrender ACL (13 Viewers)

Tank Top · Jun 17, 2013

Hopefully, the FL will look at the accounts of Otium and CCFC, understand that they are massively overladen with dept, and not in any position to carry out their Business plan of building a new Stadium, in the Coventry catchment area, resulting with the Licence being refused to Sisu Finance.
This, could possibly let the American bid resurface.
There may be, a hint in the statement by Administrator Appleton, that although he was obliged to accept the highest bid in financial terms to satisfy the requirements of the creditors, he was reluctant to recommend it as the best bid, as far as the future of the Footrball club was concerned.
The ball, is now in the FL' court, and it is up to them, to make a judgement on whether to award the Licence to the Habitually insolvent Sisu, group,and all the "Financial actions and counter actions" Baggage that comes with them, it would be nice , if the FL grew a pair, and looked at the best option for the future of the Football Club, and its loyal, long suffering fans.

Jack Griffin · Jun 17, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
The council were immediately paid back £21million pound by ACL for the 50 year lease, that's what the loan was for.

Nicely in profit for them.

More misinformation, it was to cover a loan that bridged a shortfall in funds to complete building the stadium because CCFC didn't have any money left.

The story is here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/coventry_warwickshire/3198884.stm

duffer · Jun 17, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
More misinformation, it was to cover a loan that bridged a shortfall in funds to complete building the stadium because CCFC didn't have any money left.

The story is here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/coventry_warwickshire/3198884.stm

Well found, that man!

Hopefully we can put this one to bed now. It seems to come around every week or two, mostly to support the argument that the Council shafted CCFC in the deal around the build. I just can't see that myself.

Stafford_SkBlue · Jun 17, 2013

Tank Top said:
Hopefully, the FL will look at the accounts of Otium and CCFC, understand that they are massively overladen with dept, and not in any position to carry out their Business plan of building a new Stadium, in the Coventry catchment area, resulting with the Licence being refused to Sisu Finance.
This, could possibly let the American bid resurface.
KjThere may be, a hint in the statement by Administrator Appleton, that although he was obliged to accept the highest bid in financial terms to satisfy the requirements of the creditors, he was reluctant to recommend it as the best bid, as far as the future of the Footrball club was concerned.
The ball, is now in the FL' court, and it is up to them, to make a judgement on whether to award the Licence to the Habitually insolvent Sisu, group,and all the "Financial actions and counter actions" Baggage that comes with them, it would be nice , if the FL grew a pair, and looked at the best option for the future of the Football Club, and its loyal, long suffering fans.

dont think sisu have any debts, they may a loss making football club but sisu dont have to borrow from banks but borrow from their wealth they have at their disposal

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Jun 17, 2013

Stafford_SkBlue said:
dont think sisu have any debts, they may a loss making football club but sisu dont have to borrow from banks but borrow from their wealth they have at their disposal

Isn't it fair to say it's not their wealth? It's wealth of their investors who they manage. The wealth isn't all theirs. Far from it.

And if investors begin to lose confidence in their ability to turn revenues, they're in trouble. Investors can also state which funds they want their cash 'invested' in; and CCFC won't have the best of reputations within their portfolio; and therefore many may specifically state they don't want their cash going near it

lordsummerisle · Jun 17, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
More misinformation, it was to cover a loan that bridged a shortfall in funds to complete building the stadium because CCFC didn't have any money left.

The story is here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/coventry_warwickshire/3198884.stm

Yes, thanks for putting that link, the important bit to take from that of course is:

"Coventry City Council has agreed to provide the £21m needed to save a £113m football stadium."

Of course this has been posted many times on here, but wilfully ignored by most:

http://moderngov.coventry.gov.uk/Da...08 - Arena Construction Completion Report.pdf

The actual figures given for the construction of a £113million Arena.

An interesting insight here from Paul Fletcher who was of course part of the Arena building and also the club later:

"At the time the new Wembley Stadium was not certain to go ahead in London so Coventry City FC even considered that their location would be ideal for a new National Stadium and wasted time and money on a pipe dream that never had a chance.

As their ambitions got higher and more costly they approached Coventry City Council for some funding, suggesting that this was now becoming a ‘community’ project for the city.

With hindsight, in my humble opinion, this was a massive error, and one which Coventry City FC may regret for the next 100 years. As the project evolved, Coventry City Council took more and more ownership of the project not trusting the football club in many aspects of the joint venture.

By the time I arrived in Coventry the deal had been struck; in simple terms it was going to be a joint venture between the football club and the council with both parties owning 50 per cent of the equity.

As the football club did not have the money to complete the purchase of the land, which would then enable them to sell off half of it to Tesco, it was agreed that Coventry City Council would purchase the land, then conclude the deal with Tesco, all as part of their joint venture agreement.

But mysteriously, once the purchase of the land and the sale to Tesco had been completed, Coventry City Council informed the football club that they were unable to share with them the profit from the sale of the land due to ‘state aid’ implications.

Instead, they offered Coventry City FC a 50 per cent share in the company that would operate the Ricoh Arena, but they, Coventry City Council would own all the equity in the property.

What I have explained in one paragraph took over 12 months to sort out and over £1m was spent on lawyers’ fees as the state aid fiasco continued through to a conclusion, which involved numerous highly paid lawyers As compensation the council offered Coventry City Football Club 50 per cent of the operating profit from the Ricoh Arena and the business plan forecasts were looking very favourable.

In addition CCFC would receive all their football related income streams.

But as the project evolved Coventry City FC were relegated from the Premier League and encountered massive financial problems.

They were so desperate to fight off administration that when under the chairmanship of the enigmatic Mike McGinnity, they sold their 50 per cent shareholding in the Ricoh Arena to the Higgs Charitable Trust for a reported £6m (Coventry Evening Telegraph August 2007).

As the Higgs Trust had previously invested around £2m in Coventry City Football Club, the price paid for the 50 per cent shareholding was around £4m.

At that time the Ricoh Arena had been valued at around £37m, therefore valuing Coventry City’s shareholding at around £18.5m, making the £4m purchase by the charity a snip. But as CCFC were so strapped for cash, they had no where else to go.

The major disadvantage for Coventry City FC when selling their shares in the Ricoh Arena was that they waved goodbye to all the Arena related incomes and all the football associated incomes such as catering income, car parking income, office rental income, rock concert income, international match income etc, which they had happily gifted to the early joint venture company.

In selling their shares to the Higgs Charitable Trust I felt, and probably CCFC also felt that the shares would be held in ‘safe-keeping’ until times improved.

Alan Higgs had been a lifelong fan of the Sky Blues whilst he was alive and left his fortune for the good of people of Coventry.

His son Sir Derek Higgs was an even bigger fan and served the club well for many years as both a Director of Coventry City FC and main Board Director of Arena Coventry Ltd.

I now personally feel that it’s time for both Coventry City Council and the Charitable Trust to sell these shares back to CCFC at a fair and equitable price, which will allow each to get on with their council business and charity work.

It is my view that football stadiums should be owned and operated by football clubs not local authorities and charitable trusts."

Seems that the council have been very adept at picking up distressed assets on the cheap in order to profit themselves at the expense of the club.

I have no brief whatsoever for Sisu(never have), even less for the previous regime that originally got us into this mess with the sale of Highfield Road and the screw up over the Arena, but can see no reason why the council/ACL should be given a free pass as some sort of fluffy, self-less victims.

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 17, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
Yes, thanks for putting that link, the important bit to take from that of course is:

"Coventry City Council has agreed to provide the £21m needed to save a £113m football stadium."

Of course this has been posted many times on here, but wilfully ignored by most:

http://moderngov.coventry.gov.uk/Da...08 - Arena Construction Completion Report.pdf

The actual figures given for the construction of a £113million Arena.

An interesting insight here from Paul Fletcher who was of course part of the Arena building and also the club later:

"At the time the new Wembley Stadium was not certain to go ahead in London so Coventry City FC even considered that their location would be ideal for a new National Stadium and wasted time and money on a pipe dream that never had a chance.

As their ambitions got higher and more costly they approached Coventry City Council for some funding, suggesting that this was now becoming a ‘community’ project for the city.

With hindsight, in my humble opinion, this was a massive error, and one which Coventry City FC may regret for the next 100 years. As the project evolved, Coventry City Council took more and more ownership of the project not trusting the football club in many aspects of the joint venture.

By the time I arrived in Coventry the deal had been struck; in simple terms it was going to be a joint venture between the football club and the council with both parties owning 50 per cent of the equity.

As the football club did not have the money to complete the purchase of the land, which would then enable them to sell off half of it to Tesco, it was agreed that Coventry City Council would purchase the land, then conclude the deal with Tesco, all as part of their joint venture agreement.

But mysteriously, once the purchase of the land and the sale to Tesco had been completed, Coventry City Council informed the football club that they were unable to share with them the profit from the sale of the land due to ‘state aid’ implications.

Instead, they offered Coventry City FC a 50 per cent share in the company that would operate the Ricoh Arena, but they, Coventry City Council would own all the equity in the property.

What I have explained in one paragraph took over 12 months to sort out and over £1m was spent on lawyers’ fees as the state aid fiasco continued through to a conclusion, which involved numerous highly paid lawyers As compensation the council offered Coventry City Football Club 50 per cent of the operating profit from the Ricoh Arena and the business plan forecasts were looking very favourable.

In addition CCFC would receive all their football related income streams.

But as the project evolved Coventry City FC were relegated from the Premier League and encountered massive financial problems.

They were so desperate to fight off administration that when under the chairmanship of the enigmatic Mike McGinnity, they sold their 50 per cent shareholding in the Ricoh Arena to the Higgs Charitable Trust for a reported £6m (Coventry Evening Telegraph August 2007).

As the Higgs Trust had previously invested around £2m in Coventry City Football Club, the price paid for the 50 per cent shareholding was around £4m.

At that time the Ricoh Arena had been valued at around £37m, therefore valuing Coventry City’s shareholding at around £18.5m, making the £4m purchase by the charity a snip. But as CCFC were so strapped for cash, they had no where else to go.

The major disadvantage for Coventry City FC when selling their shares in the Ricoh Arena was that they waved goodbye to all the Arena related incomes and all the football associated incomes such as catering income, car parking income, office rental income, rock concert income, international match income etc, which they had happily gifted to the early joint venture company.

In selling their shares to the Higgs Charitable Trust I felt, and probably CCFC also felt that the shares would be held in ‘safe-keeping’ until times improved.

Alan Higgs had been a lifelong fan of the Sky Blues whilst he was alive and left his fortune for the good of people of Coventry.

His son Sir Derek Higgs was an even bigger fan and served the club well for many years as both a Director of Coventry City FC and main Board Director of Arena Coventry Ltd.

I now personally feel that it’s time for both Coventry City Council and the Charitable Trust to sell these shares back to CCFC at a fair and equitable price, which will allow each to get on with their council business and charity work.

It is my view that football stadiums should be owned and operated by football clubs not local authorities and charitable trusts."

Seems that the council have been very adept at picking up distressed assets on the cheap in order to profit themselves at the expense of the club.

I have no brief whatsoever for Sisu(never have), even less for the previous regime that originally got us into this mess with the sale of Highfield Road and the screw up over the Arena, but can see no reason why the council/ACL should be given a free pass as some sort of fluffy, self-less victims.

All well thought out but the facts are it ain't gonna happen!!!!

You know this to be true as you are an intelligent man so the choices are limited.

Sell up and leave-my preference or go cap in hand to acl and re-negotiate

Any others??

lordsummerisle · Jun 17, 2013

Sky Blue Pete said:
All well thought out but the facts are it ain't gonna happen!!!!

You know this to be true as you are an intelligent man so the choices are limited.

Sell up and leave-my preference or go cap in hand to acl and re-negotiate

Any others??

Sell up and leave my preference, but as yet been no "serious" bids, think negotiaition with ACL would have to be done either way, both have to swallow a bit of pride to be able to do that though.

They are both dependent on each other, bit like women, can't live with them,can't live without them.

procdoc · Jun 17, 2013

When the OP mentioned the words 'No Surrender' I think he may have been referring to the Springsteen song 'No Surrender' rather than the anti-IRA chant that can be heard at football matches in Glasgow

lordsummerisle · Jun 17, 2013

procdoc said:
When the OP mentioned the words 'No Surrender' I think he may have been referring to the Springsteen song 'No Surrender' rather than the anti-IRA chant that can be heard at football matches in Glasgow

Think that we're all dancing in the dark though.

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 17, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
Sell up and leave my preference, but as yet been no "serious" bids, think negotiaition with ACL would have to be done either way, both have to swallow a bit of pride to be able to do that though.

They are both dependent on each other, bit like women, can't live with them,can't live without them.

Isn't the quote can't live with them, can't live with them??

Completely agree

lordsummerisle · Jun 17, 2013

Sky Blue Pete said:
Isn't the quote can't live with them, can't live with them??

Completely agree

Also, my enemies enemy can also be my enemy a good variation on how I feel about it all to be honest.

rightumpty · Jun 17, 2013

There is no future at all with SISU.
They are killing off our club and for no apparent reason. Surely they must know that there is no money for them to make at Coventry and with no crowds how on earth are they expecting to attract players for the new season. I give up.

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