Now call me thick here ..... (1 Viewer)

Otis · May 10, 2012

But according to the CT today, City remain in a transfer embargo and the club have said they cannot submit the accounts because they are unable to agree next year's budget because of the rent issue.

We are unable to file this year's accounts because we haven't agreed next year's budget?

Is that right?

:thinking about::thinking about:

DH - Sky Blue · May 10, 2012

No idea, maybe something to do with needing next years rent for the last years accounts not in terms of figures, but more for the going concern section?

Otis · May 10, 2012

Well that did come to mind, but then in that case doesn't that put an lot of pressure on ACL in terms of a degree of blackmail?

There will be penalties if we don't submit our accounts by 1st June. That means any agreement needs to be made rather sharpish doesn't it. Surely Sisu are going to try and use this as some kind of leverage.

DH - Sky Blue · May 10, 2012

Certainly wouldn't put it past them.

I'd wait for that good poster with all the financial knowledge that often comes on here to clarify things....Glen i think his name is.

Otis · May 10, 2012

:claping hands::claping hands::claping hands::claping hands:

Tank Top · May 10, 2012

Hi Otis
Maybe they have to prove that they are operational for next season, as a requirement to the football league, going bust halfway through the season would cause immense havoc for the administration, so perhaps clubs need to prove they have the finance to operate properly in the coming Campaign. Just a thought

oldskyblue58 · May 10, 2012

Its an audit requirement Otis .....

The 2011 accounts cannot be signed off by the auditors as a going concern until there is a budget (that the auditors have audited) for at least 12 months after the date of signing off. Right now there is no budget agreed so auditors cannot look at signing off as a going concern.

hughescov · May 10, 2012

Tank Top said:
Hi Otis
Maybe they have to prove that they are operational for next season, as a requirement to the football league, going bust halfway through the season would cause immense havoc for the administration, so perhaps clubs need to prove they have the finance to operate properly in the coming Campagne. Just a thought

in the coming Champagne :claping hands:

Tank Top · May 10, 2012

"Sorry"...... "Typo"......."Campaign"...

"A Senior moment I think"

Stoppercurtis · May 10, 2012

Last years accounts are a historical record of what actually happen during that financial year. Accruals/reserves can be made agianst future claims etc. So for me this is a load of nonsense in purely accounting terms.

Stopper

Otis · May 10, 2012

Right. But I am still confused.

Sisu knew this some time back. Why didn't they refuse to pay the rent earlier to try and get this sorted? Seems that they have given themselves a very tight deadline if everything has to be submitted by June 1st.

Or was that part of the plan? To leave it late in the day to help try and exert pressure on ACL?

Or maybe they are as thick as the Venky's lot and just assumed the rent would drop once we got relegated.

Stoppercurtis · May 10, 2012

The date for filing their final accounts with Company House has I believe passed. This in itself is highly unusal and they must have been given an extension by Company House to make their submission. So they are living on borrowed time.

SISU's final accounts is not dependent upon anyone else i.e. ACL. They have to submit them by law on a given date. They are a snap shot of their accounts at the end of their finacial year.

As someone mentioned earlier it may not be an accounting issue but a possilbe default with the Football League that is the issue here. However they have to submit their accounts no matter what.

Stopper

The Reverend Skyblue · May 10, 2012

Otis said:
But according to the CT today, City remain in a transfer embargo and the club have said they cannot submit the accounts because they are unable to agree next year's budget because of the rent issue.

We are unable to file this year's accounts because we haven't agreed next year's budget?

Is that right?

:thinking about::thinking about:

Otis, you are thick.

no-one else has called it you ,which you wanted doing , so I thought i'd oblige

The Rev

Otis · May 10, 2012

Now I may be a bit thick here ......., but didn't you just call me thick?

canleykid · May 10, 2012

Otis said:
But according to the CT today, City remain in a transfer embargo and the club have said they cannot submit the accounts because they are unable to agree next year's budget because of the rent issue.

We are unable to file this year's accounts because we haven't agreed next year's budget?

Is that right?

:thinking about::thinking about:

Otis it don't sound right does it,cos last season accounts should be done and dusted and closed off you can't say I don't know how much we earnt or spent till I no my outgoings next year,what a load of crap your not being thick mate It's sisu again and there stupidity

oldskyblue58 · May 10, 2012

Can't submit them until such time as the auditors sign them off. The auditors cannot complete their audit until such time as there is a clear plan (or budget to go forward) The directors are duty bound to consider a period of at least 12 months from date of them signing the accounts in respect of the plan/budget going forward. The auditors have a responsibility to audit those budgets and assess whether the club is a going concern with sufficient financial backing before arriving at their conclusion . As it stands there is a stack of evidence that CCFC are not a going concern and very little that suggests it is. The auditors cannot even consider signing their report off with CCFC as a going concern because TF & SISU have no agreed plan forward

If the directors signed a set of accounts right now as a going concern with no budget or plan or future financial support and the auditors did like wise then both are likely to be committing a offence under the Companies Act and breaking audit regulations. Audited accounts are not just about a snap shot at the year ended.

Yes there is a due date (9 months after the year end) and yes Company House will extend time limit, but not indefinitely and there are fines for non submission which double up from last years

They could submit a set of accounts based on them not being a going concern but that would be business suicide.

First and foremost the accounts being filed at Company House is the issue - but the League has its own regulations for dealing with accounts etc.

Bottom line is yes Otis it is right

TheRoyalScam · May 10, 2012

I just love your patience osb58 - how many times have you had to explain this on SBT??

Otis · May 10, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
Can't submit them until such time as the auditors sign them off. The auditors cannot complete their audit until such time as there is a clear plan (or budget to go forward) The directors are duty bound to consider a period of at least 12 months from date of them signing the accounts in respect of the plan/budget going forward. The auditors have a responsibility to audit those budgets and assess whether the club is a going concern with sufficient financial backing before arriving at their conclusion . As it stands there is a stack of evidence that CCFC are not a going concern and very little that suggests it is. The auditors cannot even consider signing their report off with CCFC as a going concern because TF & SISU have no agreed plan forward

If the directors signed a set of accounts right now as a going concern with no budget or plan or future financial support and the auditors did like wise then both are likely to be committing a offence under the Companies Act and breaking audit regulations. Audited accounts are not just about a snap shot at the year ended.

Yes there is a due date (9 months after the year end) and yes Company House will extend time limit, but not indefinitely and there are fines for non submission which double up from last years

They could submit a set of accounts based on them not being a going concern but that would be business suicide.

First and foremost the accounts being filed at Company House is the issue - but the League has its own regulations for dealing with accounts etc.

Bottom line is yes Otis it is right

Cheers for that, OSB. What I still can't get though is that Sisu obviously knew they had to submit these accounts and they knew they needed to agree a budget. They therefore knew they had to try and sort out the rent issue too.

Trouble for me is, they knew all this months ago. Why has it taken until now to stop paying the rent and agree a budget?

Okay, so we've gone down, but the whole thing has been unsustainable anyway, so they knew that something with the rent thing had to be approached anyway.

Part of me is wondering if they left it all last to try and use that as leverage and put pressure on OCL with a deadline foe submitting the accounts having to be met.

oldskyblue58 · May 10, 2012

I agree Otis - they had plenty of time, could have prepared two budgets one for league 1 and one for the Championship. SISU could have made it clear they were prepared to underwrite the coming season but chose to say they wouldn't fund further. They were very aware of what was going on and the timings. They could have sorted this out a long time ago.

I think that this is a tactic. They are ramping up pressure on ACL etc so that if it goes against CCFC it looks like it is everyone elses fault not SISU. More hard nosed tactics I am afraid.

coundonskyblue · May 10, 2012

Does anyone have an idea of what the league would/could do if the accounts are not filed by 1st June?

Has another club in the past failed to submit accounts by the deadline and if so what happened to them?

Otis · May 10, 2012

All I know is there will be penalties.

Which is bloody no use at all to us cos Sheff keeps missing them!

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