Operation Premiership?? (2 Viewers)

skybluesam66 · Aug 23, 2011

ok - this was Fletcher's line - premiership in 3 years

But was it SISU's plan A with no Plan B
Also is that then the same for Hoffman

I have heard £30m
£10m for players
£10m for running costs
£10m for the stadium

how long does that last?

Jimthor · Aug 23, 2011

I'd suppose that buying the stadium should help with financing in the future, as it means there'll be more money coming in.

Also, to a lesser extent, you'd think that if we invest £10m on players, we'd become competitive, and thus get more people in the stadium (and higher revenue from ticketing).

kg82 · Aug 23, 2011

Fletcher wasn't anything to do with SISU. And to be fair to him, if the "operation premiership" promise was personal, he made it with Burnley!

oldskyblue58 · Aug 23, 2011

we dont actually need to spend £10m on players to have a decent team. Reckon AT could do it on far less than that

Wont get the stadium for £10m only half share in ACL - which wont bring extra income

AFCCOVENTRY · Aug 23, 2011

The opportunity was there over the summer to bring in a few faces on free transfers. But sisu have blocked this and even if Hoff came in and bought the ricoh share but allowed free transfers and loans it would be good enough till stability comes on the financial side.

Lord_Nampil · Aug 23, 2011

The one thing hoff is doing is getting the ownership of the stadium sorted stright away! If Sisu had done that last time, we probably wouldn't be as much of a mess! The ground is the key IMO. I heard a rumour we pay 80K a week in rent all year round! quick sums to me suggest thats around £4 million pounds (a number RR suggested we would loose once everything had settled down after the SISU take over) So u take that away and you make more money at home games then the 10 million investment in the stadium seems a decent start!!!

Also the take over would probably increase home attendances on its own, add a few players to the squad then suddenly you will probably keep the increase in attendences!!!

I get the feeling the Hoff knows what he is doing, something SISU probably didn't!

Lord_Nampil · Aug 23, 2011

well it will, we would get a share of everything we make on match days! Something that is currently killing the club!!!!!

derbyskyblue · Aug 23, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
we dont actually need to spend £10m on players to have a decent team. Reckon AT could do it on far less than that

Wont get the stadium for £10m only half share in ACL - which wont bring extra income

How muck would it cost to own the stadium outright?

dojer · Aug 23, 2011

Wasn't SISU's plan to finance the club by buying promising young players then sell them on at a profit? Started well with Coleman's transfers generally being promising youngsters but Boothroyd completely abandoned that plan, although the strategy might have ended by the time of his appointment after SISU realised that it didn't work as well as they would have liked it to

AFCCOVENTRY · Aug 23, 2011

You would have thought that SISU being the so called savvy hedge fund would have done the due diligence and realised that to ensure a stable revenue stream that getting the ricoh share was key. Only in the last 6 months have they started banging on about getting the ricoh.

Also there has been a rumour for a long while that the council, ACL, Higgs etc do not want SISU involved with the ricoh.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 23, 2011

owning half of ACL doesnt give us a half share of the profits- it entitles us to dividends that it would be illegal for acl to pay at the moment until such time as they have distributable profits which on current results would be in 7 years.

Also rent is nowhere near £80k a week

oldskyblue58 · Aug 23, 2011

derbyskyblue said:
How muck would it cost to own the stadium outright?

dont know but there are two ways to own it..... long leasehold probably £25m ACL own that at the moment ..... or the freehold which the council own probably £80m upwards (all pure guesswork).

Either way the stumbling block could be the council as they have said all along they wont sell to any owner of CCFC unless they can prove they have a viable and sustainable business (ie profitable with no big debts to service). The council can veto the sale of the 50% of ACL i believe also.

Jim · Aug 23, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
owning half of ACL doesnt give us a half share of the profits- it entitles us to dividends that it would be illegal for acl to pay at the moment until such time as they have distributable profits which on current results would be in 7 years.

Also rent is nowhere near £80k a week

CCFC would only need to purchase a further 1% of shares from council to be able to consolidate ACL into the group accounts. Either that or demonstrate majority control. That shouldn't be too hard to achieve given the nature of the business purchased ie a football stadium purchased by a football club.

AFCCOVENTRY · Aug 23, 2011

The council will work with Hoffman and Elliott but not SISU

oldskyblue58 · Aug 23, 2011

except the council own the other 50% and the freehold which gives them substantial influence. Dont think they would surrender control easily or cheaply or until they know CCFC is viable. That could be a very expensive 1%. The stadium is a multi use venue used for football 50 times a year, it isnt so straight forward. It was never intended to be a single use football stadium. Why do people assume the council just roll over and let a group of companies with poor financial record and history take over

The consolidation is based on the shares and income extraction will be based on those and ACL has accumlated losses. The club couldnt charge rents, interest, management charges etc to get at any income (as it stands) it is unlikely ACL would lend the money to them

Nonleagueherewecome · Aug 23, 2011

kg82 said:
Fletcher wasn't anything to do with SISU. And to be fair to him, if the "operation premiership" promise was personal, he made it with Burnley!

Agreed, and Burnley loved him for it. But hang on a minute..Dowie and Adams, or Owen Coyle? I think I can see what the real difference was there!

sw88 · Aug 23, 2011

Jimthor said:
I'd suppose that buying the stadium should help with financing in the future, as it means there'll be more money coming in.

Also, to a lesser extent, you'd think that if we invest £10m on players, we'd become competitive, and thus get more people in the stadium (and higher revenue from ticketing).

£10m on players to make us competitive? Aslong as we dont spend it like Leicester

And just the title of this post brought back memories (not good ones). What a laugh this 'operation' was.

Paul Fletcher saying that was his vision, and we've never come close!

coundonskyblue · Aug 23, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
owning half of ACL doesnt give us a half share of the profits- it entitles us to dividends that it would be illegal for acl to pay at the moment until such time as they have distributable profits which on current results would be in 7 years.

Also rent is nowhere near £80k a week

I'm not saying that your wrong, but could you explain why it would be illegal?

I understand that ACL themselves are still paying off the construction costs of the Ricoh & therefore most of its income goes on that, but as ACL is a ltd company how is it any different to any other business? If I were to set up a Ltd company, using a bank loan to fund it, would I not be able to take any funds out of that company until the loan was repaid? How would I feed myself!

wingy · Aug 23, 2011

Hoffman has definately stated he intends to purchase 50% of stadium.

covcity4life · Aug 24, 2011

is 10m for 50% of the stadium or 10m to buy option to buy the full stadium OSB? or both?

chiefdave · Aug 24, 2011

I believe there's a formula to calculate a set price on the 50% of the long lease held by the Higgs Trust, this is belived to work out at aroud £10m. I would guess there's a move to buy it ASAP as there's a point at which that formula expires and they'd have to pay full market price. So although they don't gain a great deal having 50% of the long lease if their intention is to buy the whole thing they will want to get the 50% at the lowest cost possible.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 24, 2011

have explained before - but here goes......

the option is to buy the shares of higgs trust (it is ACL not the council or Higgs trust that owns the lease so you cant just buy Higgs Trust share of the lease because their name isnt on it). Not paying £10m for the option to buy (they had already purchased the option to buy), my understanding is thats the price to buy the shares from the trust

they would own the shares and the way you earn on shares is by dividends. Dividends can legally only be paid out of accumulated profits less all losses. At the last accounts date ACL showed accumulated losses only of £2.4m. There are no profits to pay dividends and if they did it would be illegal

In the early years ACL made losses that are slowly being extinguished by the profits it now makes. Banks dont give loans to companies so that the owners can take out funds to live on. The owners are expected to take from the profits the company makes - usually by salary. There are no services etc for CCFC to provide to ACL as it stands (it operates well enough without them ) so there isnt a way to draw against the current profits. Its the same as having shares in BT - you would expect to get a dividend but the shares dont give you a right to any other income ..... the difference as yet is CCFC cant get a dividend because there are no reserves accumulated over all the years to pay out as a dividend. That will change given time so long as ACL keeps making profits and if the council remain they agree to it

We'll_live_and_die · Aug 24, 2011

OMG how many times have you explained that OSB???

oldskyblue58 · Aug 24, 2011

lost count Rich, not trying to be unhelpful but from now on will just refer folk to previous posts where i can its taking up too much time and distracting from my work

No disrespect intended to any one who has asked questions of me

covcity4life · Aug 24, 2011

cheers precious

Il Pirata · Aug 24, 2011

I can't be the only one who cringes when I read this title?

Operation Premiership?? (2 Viewers)

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