Otium has replaced CCFC Holdings (1 Viewer)

SonOfSnoz · Sep 21, 2013

Confusion on last night's phone in.
Otium has bought out CCFC Holdings.
Therefore all Holdings assets are now owned by Otium, including the golden share.
The share was originally owned by CCFC Ltd, this company is currently being liquidated by PA.
So Holdings no longer exists, whilst Ltd is soon to be liquid.
Hope this clears up the confusion.

ohitsaidwalker king power · Sep 21, 2013

SonOfSnoz said:
Confusion on last night's phone in.
Otium has bought out CCFC Holdings.
Therefore all Holdings assets are now owned by Otium, including the golden share.
The share was originally owned by CCFC Ltd, this company is currently being liquidated by PA.
So Holdings no longer exists, whilst Ltd is soon to be liquid.
Hope this clears up the confusion.

Yep thanks.... heard that too... but now its all crystal..

SonOfSnoz · Sep 21, 2013

You would think Clive would know this?
About time the club is cleaned up!
Otium should have it's name changed to CCFC!

valiant15 · Sep 21, 2013

They can all rot in piss.

SkyblueBazza · Sep 21, 2013

valiant15 said:
They can all rot in piss.

I do agree with your sentiment...although at least this is a slightly more transparent way of doing things. There is one owning company, one board...before we enter the tangled web - a good sign that we are on the periphery of the web rather than in the middle of it (at least that's how it seems to me)
If I'm right that makes us less complicated & therefore a more straightforward purchasing process should they decide to off-load us.

Tonylinc · Sep 21, 2013

You really think that it will stay that way once the dust has settled?

SkyblueBazza · Sep 21, 2013

Tonylinc said:
You really think that it will stay that way once the dust has settled?

You might be right...but almost the complete opposite thinking - could it be that this is being done specifically to make us a more attractive sale?

alphabettyspagetty · Sep 21, 2013

Has Otium filed its accounts yet? When is the final deadline for doing so?

DazzleTommyDazzle · Sep 22, 2013

alphabettyspagetty said:
Has Otium filed its accounts yet? When is the final deadline for doing so?

Final deadline was January (this year).

Godiva · Sep 22, 2013

SonOfSnoz said:
Confusion on last night's phone in.
Otium has bought out CCFC Holdings.
Therefore all Holdings assets are now owned by Otium, including the golden share.
The share was originally owned by CCFC Ltd, this company is currently being liquidated by PA.
So Holdings no longer exists, whilst Ltd is soon to be liquid.
Hope this clears up the confusion.

... and SBS&L?

jesus-wept · Sep 22, 2013

Why have they not filed accounts ? Thus keeping the football side of the business in a transfer embargo not able to sign anyone without permission from the FL. Or is that the reason to prevent Pressley being able to sign players, a vital tool of the trade.

Mrpipes · Sep 22, 2013

Tonylinc said:
You really think that it will stay that way once the dust has settled?

your loaded question implies sisu split us up in the first place?

I think it's a giant step forward myself , but others on here will see it as something else they can blame on sisu

Jack Griffin · Sep 22, 2013

SonOfSnoz said:
Therefore all Holdings assets are now owned by Otium, including the golden share.

We don't know that, all football assets (i.e. players) to be sure as the FL will be keeping a beady eye on that , but Holdings still exist, how do we know that it isn't a being used as a vehicle to carry some part of the group portfolio? We don't and there are no accounts to use even to make a guess.

GaryPendrysEyes · Sep 22, 2013

Mrpipes said:
your loaded question implies sisu split us up in the first place?
I think it's a giant step forward myself , but others on here will see it as something else they can blame on sisu

Pray tell why it's such a GIANT step forward for CCFC? Because actually it's just another piece in the Sisu game of musical assets and debts in their interest.

Godiva · Sep 22, 2013

GaryPendrysEyes said:
Pray tell why it's such a GIANT step forward for CCFC? Because actually it's just another piece in the Sisu game of musical assets and debts in their interest.

So they should have kept the club split over two different companies?
I thought many were arguing the group structure was confusing and difficult to understand. SBS&L, Otium, ccfc Holdings limited, ccfc limited ...
Now it's a bit more straight froward. SBS&L and Otium.
Maybe some of the debts have been written off, but we won't know untill they file new accounts.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Sep 22, 2013

Godiva said:
So they should have kept the club split over two different companies?
I thought many were arguing the group structure was confusing and difficult to understand. SBS&L, Otium, ccfc Holdings limited, ccfc limited ...
Now it's a bit more straight froward. SBS&L and Otium.
Maybe some of the debts have been written off, but we won't know untill they file new accounts.

So about 2019 on current form?

Jack Griffin · Sep 22, 2013

Godiva said:
So they should have kept the club split over two different companies?
I thought many were arguing the group structure was confusing and difficult to understand. SBS&L, Otium, ccfc Holdings limited, ccfc limited ...
Now it's a bit more straight froward. SBS&L and Otium.
Maybe some of the debts have been written off, but we won't know untill they file new accounts.

You are wrong, all the original companies still exist, even CCFC Ltd is still in being. If anything the arrangement is slightly more complex & opaque.

TheRoyalScam · Sep 22, 2013

And nobody's mentioned the Cayman Islands based Arvo Master Fund.

georgehudson · Sep 22, 2013

what a tangled web we appear to weave Ms Seppala,
why not, just for once, communicate with the fans,
there are tens of thousands who are getting utterly sick of your evasive actions

oldskyblue58 · Sep 23, 2013

They already owned 100% of CCFC H anyway they didnt need to buy it out. Have all the debts been settled or written off?

Otium's trading name as per TF on CWR 02/08/13 is CCFC so Otium do not need to change name. Certainly the trademarks are now registered to Otium Entertainment group

CCFC H nor CCFC Ltd have yet to disappear from the Company Registry. Therefore it is not correct to say they no longer exist

so let me get this straight we have a "complicated structure" for the football club group (dont actually agree because ccfc is just one company owning another which owns another the reality is the structure isnt that complicated it is the transactions that are within that are unclear and perhaps complicated). But it suits to describe it all as complicated to the average football fan doesnt it? Does changing everything to Otium actually really change the nature of things? - whatever the structure isnt the problem still income and keeping costs down?

Until 1995 we had one company, then two when one ccfc h owned the other ccfc ltd outright, then in 2008 it became a group of three when SISU added SBS&L, then 2009 the Prozone group was added by SISU making at least 6, then 2011 Otium added by SISU making 7, then later in 2011 SISU sold Prozone leaving 4, 2013 CCFC Ltd to be liquidated leaving 3 (probably 2 active). So we are back at the structure that TF said started all the complications (two maybe 3 companies). We are not one single company

Prozone was part of the Ranson arrangements but SISU added two of the companies to create the "complicated structure". Just because there are a lot of names it doesnt make it complicated though, even if certain parties tell you it is, but you have to ask why new companies were added at all............

Dont confuse the SISU group structure which is complicated, with the football club structure headed by SBS&L which isnt really

Many football clubs have a two company structure though........ usually to protect the freehold property from the losses of the football trade..... it really is not that unique that in 1995 we had that situation or that SBS&L owns Otium. In fact if a simple structure of one company was required then why didnt SBS&L buy the title to whatever assets sat in CCFC Ltd?

Has it tidied things up to make things more transparent for fans - nothing to say one way or another but then that was not the main reason for this restructuring. They could have restructured in CCFC H, ARVO could have "invested" in that company directly but everything has now gone through Otium - wonder why? Or just done everything through SBS&L

It would be a shame if CCFC H is struck off as it is a small part of our history, it is the original company ....... but thats progress I guess.

duffer · Sep 23, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
They already owned 100% of CCFC H anyway they didnt need to buy it out. Have all the debts been settled or written off?

Otium's trading name as per TF on CWR 02/08/13 is CCFC so Otium do not need to change name. Certainly the trademarks are now registered to Otium Entertainment group

CCFC H nor CCFC Ltd have yet to disappear from the Company Registry. Therefore it is not correct to say they no longer exist

so let me get this straight we have a "complicated structure" for the football club group (dont actually agree because ccfc is just one company owning another which owns another the reality is the structure isnt that complicated it is the transactions that are within that are unclear and perhaps complicated). But it suits to describe it all as complicated to the average football fan doesnt it? Does changing everything to Otium actually really change the nature of things? - whatever the structure isnt the problem still income and keeping costs down?

Until 1995 we had one company, then two when one ccfc h owned the other ccfc ltd outright, then in 2008 it became a group of three when SISU added SBS&L, then 2009 the Prozone group was added by SISU making at least 6, then 2011 Otium added by SISU making 7, then later in 2011 SISU sold Prozone leaving 4, 2013 CCFC Ltd to be liquidated leaving 3 (probably 2 active). So we are back at the structure that TF said started all the complications (two maybe 3 companies). We are not one single company

Prozone was part of the Ranson arrangements but SISU added two of the companies to create the "complicated structure". Just because there are a lot of names it doesnt make it complicated though, even if certain parties tell you it is, but you have to ask why new companies were added at all............

Dont confuse the SISU group structure which is complicated, with the football club structure headed by SBS&L which isnt really

Many football clubs have a two company structure though........ usually to protect the freehold property from the losses of the football trade..... it really is not that unique that in 1995 we had that situation or that SBS&L owns Otium. In fact if a simple structure of one company was required then why didnt SBS&L buy the title to whatever assets sat in CCFC Ltd?

Has it tidied things up to make things more transparent for fans - nothing to say one way or another but then that was not the main reason for this restructuring. They could have restructured in CCFC H, ARVO could have "invested" in that company directly but everything has now gone through Otium - wonder why? Or just done everything through SBS&L

It would be a shame if CCFC H is struck off as it is a small part of our history, it is the original company ....... but thats progress I guess.

Not sure we're making progress exactly, OSB, but I see where you're coming from.

I'm also not sure whether SISU are making the structure of the club more or less complex, but my guess is it suits SISU to keep things generally as opaque as possible - they need to be ready to f*ck over the next set of creditors.

The FL won't be getting that million pound 'bond' if it all goes tits up, that's for sure!

Jack Griffin · Sep 23, 2013

duffer said:
Not sure we're making progress exactly, OSB, but I see where you're coming from.

I'm also not sure whether SISU are making the structure of the club more or less complex, but my guess is it suits SISU to keep things generally as opaque as possible - they need to be ready to f*ck over the next set of creditors.

The FL won't be getting that million pound 'bond' if it all goes tits up, that's for sure!

Is it worth suggesting that a journo does a write up on the worthlessness of the promises the FL have accepted.

oldskyblue58 · Sep 23, 2013

the "progress" was more rhetorical than tangible duffer ....... and was really in that last sentence just about the loss of CCFC H ltd ..... is losing another part of our history progress? who knows?

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