Our Defence (1 Viewer)

mechaishida · Jan 17, 2016

Ok, we know we've suffered hideous luck with defensive injuries in recent months, but where is it going wrong at the back?

What can be changed?

More importantly, what can be done to shore the defence up and cut out these frustrating, points-costing errors?

The obvious answer is to drop Phillips, I know, but who can replace him until Lorentzson is fit?

ConnorDevine · Jan 17, 2016

I really dont think Phillips was that bad, the error was huge and killed the game but he doesn't look out of his depth to me. really feel like his mistake yesterday has been an opportunity to make him a scapegoat

And you answered your question yourself I think, we've not had the luxury of keeping our back line consistent so have suffered in cohesion.

Also, chin up, I'm pretty sure we have the 3rd/4th best defensive record in the league, we just need a bit more versatility going forwards I think, when teams play compact and sit deep and we cant run at them we really struggle to score

Samo · Jan 17, 2016

Ricketts
New CB
Rammage (until Martin is fit)
Stokes

stevefloyd · Jan 17, 2016

Phillips really isn't good enough atm I have seen oppositions right left backs causing problems for us I don't see that too much in our full backs... I think it was a good decision to haul off Phillips yesterday the poor lad looked absolutely distraught,brilliant of Ramage and Ricketts to go over and talk to him.. I think he may be rested now for a few games

Hobo · Jan 17, 2016

Too much focus on Phillips mistake yesterday, apart from that he wasn't too bad. Our downfall was we didn't look like we could break Burton down. Most of our chances came from long range shots.

In the first half we passed the ball around but the tempo was very relaxed and made it easy for Burton. We never showed any urgency or real intent until we were behind.

Murphy, Maddison and Lamieras were all too easily bullied. There maybe a case for Bigi alongside Fleck and push Vincelot forward to rampage higher up the pitch. Maybe Maddison and Cole either side of him. Give Murphy a rest and use him as an impact sub when the game is a bit more stretched. Hunt will also offer options.

I just think we need a bit more aggression higher up the pitch.

stupot07 · Jan 17, 2016

I actually thought that was what Mowbray was doing when I saw Bigi get stripped, wouldn't have guess on a million years that Vincelot would go centre back..

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mechaishida · Jan 17, 2016

TM is in a bit of a quandary with the defence, imo.

Stokes looks better at CB, but then Haynes is not a left back. Phillips needs dropping, but who aside from Ricketts can do a job at RB?

Otis · Jan 17, 2016

ConnorDevine said:
I really dont think Phillips was that bad, the error was huge and killed the game but he doesn't look out of his depth to me. really feel like his mistake yesterday has been an opportunity to make him a scapegoat

And you answered your question yourself I think, we've not had the luxury of keeping our back line consistent so have suffered in cohesion.

Also, chin up, I'm pretty sure we have the 3rd/4th best defensive record in the league, we just need a bit more versatility going forwards I think, when teams play compact and sit deep and we cant run at them we really struggle to score

You said it yourself, that error was huge and just how many goals has he cost us now? It's a number of penalties and mistimed challenges and cases of diving in. Lots of schoolboy errors, so even if he wasn't that bad, that error yesterday was terrible.

I would say he looks very much out of his depth at the moment and he needs to go off on loan somewhere.

ceetee · Jan 17, 2016

Agree with Otis here. I wouldn't write Phillips off because he has shown ability, but he seems to have lapses of concentration. Needs experience in a less challenging situation

skyblue94 · Jan 17, 2016

Think one of the big problems with our defensive frailties this season is that really we have never had a stable back 4 all season. Enforced changes through injuries and Mowbray changes to the back line means we have never had a consistent back 4 line up. Doubt really whether Mowbray at this moment actually knows his strongest back 4 he has to choose from.

rupert_bear · Jan 17, 2016

Think you are correct on Stokes, for me he found a position at centre back but

sw88 · Jan 17, 2016

Phillips isn't a defender who will get a team promoted. He's not appeared much this season but when he's there has been almost one costly error per game (or close to it).

The sooner the Swede is fit the better, not that I know much of him mind, so much so I keep forgetting his name, but surely his experience will count for something?

Ramage looked rusty to me yesterday but I won't judge him in one appearance. His distribution at times was awful and I'm not sure who he was seeing making runs, as his passes were going near no one, not even a Burton player at times!

Two right footed CB's does not work. We seen it when Ricketts was playing as the left sided CB and with Ramage yesterday; we have to keep cutting inside everytime.

Do hope Mowbray / Venus have something in the pipeline to address this, especially if the Swede isn't close to full fitness

Perryccfc · Jan 17, 2016

I wasn't at the game yesterday so I can't comment on his performance. But one thing that struck me from the highlights is what the players around him were telling him, if anything? RCC can the guy there so I would love to know if he called for him to clear. I think to much is made of Phillips mistakes. Every time I've seen him I don't think he's been to bad. He's committed to tackles, he works his socks off and technically he looks good. I think young players will make mistakes we just hope they learn from them which I'm sure he will.

I think he's a much better full back than Haynes.
And one thing that annoys me is that every seems to say get lorentzson in asap like he's going to be the shining light at RB, but he's not even played a minute, how does anyone know how good he is?

Pete in Portugal · Jan 17, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Think you are correct on Stokes, for me he found a position at centre back but

Agreed - one option TM might be considering is trying to get a new LB to free up Stokes to play as a CD. I imagine that the problem with this strategy is that it would mean we'd be playing 2 very similar central defenders and doesn't address our need for a 'man mountain' to improve our physicality. Marcin Wasilewski at Leicester looks like the type we need, but is probably not available for a loan and / or beyond our budget.

Hopefully Lorentzson will be available to play RB soon and Ricketts is an option in the meantime. Phillips error yesterday aside, his performances hasn't been that bad, though no more than adequate perhaps?

Skyblueweeman · Jan 17, 2016

Otis said:
You said it yourself, that error was huge and just how many goals has he cost us now? It's a number of penalties and mistimed challenges and cases of diving in. Lots of schoolboy errors, so even if he wasn't that bad, that error yesterday was terrible.

I would say he looks very much out of his depth at the moment and he needs to go off on loan somewhere.

Not only that Otis, the opposition know he's a weakness. I thought it was quite obvious yesterday in the 1st half that they deliberately targeted Philips. A lot of their movement forward purposely came down that side.

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Hobo · Jan 17, 2016

Skyblueweeman said:
Not only that Otis, the opposition know he's a weakness. I thought it was quite obvious yesterday in the 1st half that they deliberately targeted Philips. A lot of their movement forward purposely came down that side.
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Not just targeting Phillips? I think them playing to their strengths was the main factor. El Khayati their best player this season plays down their left.

oscillatewildly · Jan 17, 2016

Perryccfc said:
I wasn't at the game yesterday so I can't comment on his performance. But one thing that struck me from the highlights is what the players around him were telling him, if anything? RCC can the guy there so I would love to know if he called for him to clear. I think to much is made of Phillips mistakes. Every time I've seen him I don't think he's been to bad. He's committed to tackles, he works his socks off and technically he looks good. I think young players will make mistakes we just hope they learn from them which I'm sure he will.

I think he's a much better full back than Haynes.
And one thing that annoys me is that every seems to say get lorentzson in asap like he's going to be the shining light at RB, but he's not even played a minute, how does anyone know how good he is?

Unfortunately, mistakes at the back can so often result in immediate dire consequence. Yes there is a certain 'luxury' in mistakes occurring further up the field but hey, he chose to ply his trade/career in that position, and these mistakes really are becoming a regular occurrence.
I was at the game y'day and that defensive chest trap was at absolute best - 'ill advised'.
Even given our selection frailties at the back, I think Phillips will be best suited as others have suggested, in going out on loan to try to perfect his art.

Brylowes · Jan 17, 2016

Otis said:
You said it yourself, that error was huge and just how many goals has he cost us now? It's a number of penalties and mistimed challenges and cases of diving in. Lots of schoolboy errors, so even if he wasn't that bad, that error yesterday was terrible.

I would say he looks very much out of his depth at the moment and he needs to go off on loan somewhere.

I think Phillips is in that no-mans land young footballers sometimes go through. Don't think he himself believes he's good enough (crisis of confidence) needs to go out on loan at lower levels.on occasions with these players things start to click,it's as if they open their eyes & the game suddenly seems so much easier. I wouldn't write him off yet. But here & now he needs a break.

MalcSB · Jan 17, 2016

Isn't the problem really that we don't take chances when we are on top? If you don't score then any mistake at the back is likely to mean dropped points. We aren't turning possession and good football in to goals. There are only two tams in league 1 who have conceded less goals than we have, and whilst there are also only two teams to have score more, we tend to score lots in a game, or none.

mechaishida · Jan 17, 2016

Well, I can only presume TM will be 'resting' Phillips for a while, however that leaves us short at the back yet again. Lorentzson is still not fit, neither is Willis.

We need to either loan a right back, or see who's in the squad who can adeptly/adequately fill in. In either case, I'm a bit stumped.

I know it's papering over the cracks, but it seems we cannot afford to have that right hand side costing us any more points.

Otis · Jan 17, 2016

mechaishida said:
Well, I can only presume TM will be 'resting' Phillips for a while, however that leaves us short at the back yet again. Lorentzson is still not fit, neither is Willis.

We need to either loan a right back, or see who's in the squad who can adeptly/adequately fill in. In either case, I'm a bit stumped.

I know it's papering over the cracks, but it seems we cannot afford to have that right hand side costing us any more points.

Well, just going off his Wiki page here, but it does say Hunt can play left back. That would allow Stokes to move back central and Ricketts to shift over to right back.

stevefloyd · Jan 17, 2016

Suit me that would a nasty fecker at the back

mechaishida · Jan 17, 2016

Otis said:
Well, just going off his Wiki page here, but it does say Hunt can play left back. That would allow Stokes to move back central and Ricketts to shift over to right back.

There we are, a perfectly feasible alternative. I'd go with that; Hunt LB, Ricketts RB, Ramage and Stokes CB. And then Lorentzson is fit, maybe shift Ricketts back over and drop Ramage.

mechaishida · Jan 17, 2016

Ok, just had a thought, so go easy, lads.

Could Bigi, with his more defence-minded mentality, be converted into a right-back?

covcity4life · Jan 17, 2016

Otis said:
You said it yourself, that error was huge and just how many goals has he cost us now? It's a number of penalties and mistimed challenges and cases of diving in. Lots of schoolboy errors, so even if he wasn't that bad, that error yesterday was terrible.

I would say he looks very much out of his depth at the moment and he needs to go off on loan somewhere.

Yup. Gave away pen vs southend. Penn vs window. Yesterday dumb defending

That's 7 pts right now. Wed be top without him lol

stevefloyd · Jan 17, 2016

Just a thought and a pretty obvious one but with the injuries to our defence TM has changed tactics to 'accomodate' the lesser strength players we have in full back positions giving them slightly more protection and harming our attacking

Del Boy 82 · Jan 17, 2016

Our whole defence is weak, it's patched up with people playing out of postion and a young Phillips learning. It's common knowledge to all our opponents were weak at the back.
Phillips yesterday dropped a big one, yes it was costly unfortunately. Lorentzson has been brought in and surly slot in when fit or what was the reason to sign him. Phillips will be a good understudy to him. He's a young lad playing in a team that's patched up, maybe a more vocal centre half along side him would be better not Sam Ricketts, for me he's been poor of recent. Again playing out of postion as a makeshift centre half he don't excel here. Can be found wanting a few times. Much better right back for his distribution. Injuries obviously restrict that.
Stokes has been Mr consistent tho, since his fitness level have improved from last season and that experience done him good. Ever reliable in both left back and centre half.
Haynes is not the answer to our left back slot, he like Phillips will make a mistake and cost us.
Ramage did reasonably well understands his position well, was very vocal yesterday, called the line well and was first to bring the line up. Poor distribution tho, needs working on to the way we play at the back passing around.
Martin done reasonably well but distribution can be poor to tho was doing well up till injury. It's crucial that we get in a experienced central defender to plug that gap.

covcity4life · Jan 17, 2016

stevefloyd said:
Just a thought and a pretty obvious one but with the injuries to our defence TM has changed tactics to 'accomodate' the lesser strength players we have in full back positions giving them slightly more protection and harming our attacking

Great point

Although willis was a shit attacker too so I dunno

Londonccfcfan · Jan 17, 2016

covcity4life said:
Yup. Gave away pen vs southend. Penn vs window. Yesterday dumb defending

That's 7 pts right now. Wed be top without him lol

Dont forget the last minute penalty vs Barnsley, luckily that didn't cost us any points apart from a convincing win and a shaky last few mins of injury time.

Londonccfcfan · Jan 17, 2016

Del Boy 82 said:
Our whole defence is weak, it's patched up with people playing out of postion and a young Phillips learning. It's common knowledge to all our opponents were weak at the back.
Phillips yesterday dropped a big one, yes it was costly unfortunately. Lorentzson has been brought in and surly slot in when fit or what was the reason to sign him. Phillips will be a good understudy to him. He's a young lad playing in a team that's patched up, maybe a more vocal centre half along side him would be better not Sam Ricketts, for me he's been poor of recent. Again playing out of postion as a makeshift centre half he don't excel here. Can be found wanting a few times. Much better right back for his distribution. Injuries obviously restrict that.
Stokes has been Mr consistent tho, since his fitness level have improved from last season and that experience done him good. Ever reliable in both left back and centre half.
Haynes is not the answer to our left back slot, he like Phillips will make a mistake and cost us.
Ramage did reasonably well understands his position well, was very vocal yesterday, called the line well and was first to bring the line up. Poor distribution tho, needs working on to the way we play at the back passing around.
Martin done reasonably well but distribution can be poor to tho was doing well up till injury. It's crucial that we get in a experienced central defender to plug that gap.

Am I missing something or doesn't our defence include the keeper.
Who sorry isn't commanding enough and is a nervous wreck.

I dearly hope I'm wrong, last thing I want to do is within another month talk about another howler from him and slag him off. Don't rate him at all.
Most keepers in this league are better than him from what I have witnessed.

Whats happened to his distribution the last 2 months? Shot of confidence.

covcity4life · Jan 17, 2016

I can forgive lack of talent

It's lack of a footballing brain thay riles me

Phillips out!

stevefloyd · Jan 17, 2016

Well we have super oggy looking after him so why worry????.... hmmm just a minute ohh fuck !!!!"!

Del Boy 82 · Jan 17, 2016

Londonccfcfan said:
Am I missing something or doesn't our defence include the keeper.
Who sorry isn't commanding enough and is a nervous wreck.

I dearly hope I'm wrong, last thing I want to do is within another month talk about another howler from him and slag him off. Don't rate him at all.
Most keepers in this league are better than him from what I have witnessed.

Whats happened to his distribution the last 2 months? Shot of confidence.

Fair point, RCC has done well in last few games from a shot stopping point of view. Kept Crewe out with some vital 1v1 saves. I agree needs to command more, and yes where has the quick distribution gone, that was very affective at times. Maybe he's a bag of nerves because of our jittery defence which without a reda/turner type we are.
Maybe a commanding experienced keeper would suit but don't appear to be on the shopping list.

shmmeee · Jan 17, 2016

Bigi has all the same footballing brain problems Phillips has. Last thing we need at the back at the minute. JOB can play there maybe until Lorentzson is fit (should be any day now it was a couple of weeks away at Crewe).

If there's not a CB out there right now we need to use one of our loan slots on a LB and move Stokes across.

LB Stokes Ricketts Lorentzson

Would be a lot better. I'd even play Haynes to allow Stokes to move across i think the balance is that much better.

Del Boy 82 · Jan 17, 2016

shmmeee said:
Bigi has all the same footballing brain problems Phillips has. Last thing we need at the back at the minute. JOB can play there maybe until Lorentzson is fit (should be any day now it was a couple of weeks away at Crewe).

If there's not a CB out there right now we need to use one of our loan slots on a LB and move Stokes across.

LB Stokes Ricketts Lorentzson

Would be a lot better. I'd even play Haynes to allow Stokes to move across i think the balance is that much better.

Putting Haynes in puts another young more inexperienced player in to make a mistake. A player who's played a season or two's games in that position would be ideal to bring in on a permanent deal or hunt if you move stokes in at centre half. Not too sure what job he could do there tho.

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