Passport Control (2 Viewers)

Grendel said:

I have the vaccine thanks

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Its not always about you Grendel

They’re now being made mandatory for all workers in the private sector in Italy from October. You either need to have been vaccinated (including single dose), recovered within a specific time period from covid or get tested at a pharmacy every 48 hours.

I’m very much against vaccine passports. I don’t think business will robustly enforce the regulations if they ever came into force anyway. That seemed to be the takeaway from Israel’s experiment with it.

A few philosophical objections to it. First, the government doesn’t have the right to force people to get the vaccine. Second, individuals have the right to choose whether or not to vaccinated. Some may have already had COVID, some may not trust the vaccines. Ultimately, they’re only putting themselves at risk as the likelihood of death is literally 0.0-0.1% for everyone aged 70 or below.

The vaccines are shown to be effective at cutting transmission and reduction of serious illness. We’re at a point where around 91% of adults have had at least one jab, iirc.

I’ve been fully vaccinated since May. A vaccine passport regime probably won’t be enforced and people who don’t want the vaccine shouldn’t be forced to get one. Why fuel the fire of anti-vaxxers anymore?

Would be worth noting the pushback against Macron and Biden for their vaccine mandates in recent weeks.

Nobody's forcing people to get a vaccine though - just they're the ones restricted in what they can do slightly, in order that the majority don't find their liberties restricted more extremely in a full lockdown... that will include unvaccinated people anyway.

Mucca Mad Boys said:

Ultimately, they’re only putting themselves at risk as the likelihood of death is literally 0.0-0.1% for everyone aged 70 or below.

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It’s not about that. It’s about preventing the NHS from being brought to its knees which has knock on impacts. It’s fine to say oh my chance of death is 0.0-0.1% so I’m fine, but when the national healthcare system has collapsed and you can’t get any healthcare then those people won’t be so care free all of a sudden?

To use your own assumed likelihood of death % to make a decision not to get a vaccine is, IMHO, selfish as fuck.

robbiekeane said:

It’s not about that. It’s about preventing the NHS from being brought to its knees which has knock on impacts. It’s fine to say oh my chance of death is 0.0-0.1% so I’m fine, but when the national healthcare system has collapsed and you can’t get any healthcare then those people won’t be so care free all of a sudden?

To use your own assumed likelihood of death % to make a decision not to get a vaccine is, IMHO, selfish as fuck.

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Also worth pointing out that when the NHS gets to the point that it can’t cope by the very fact that they can’t cope that likelihood of death figure will begin to go up. The figure is not a line in the sand, it’s a figure based on current circumstances.

I must have missed the outrage about NHS and social workers having to be vaccinated, that’s a surprise.

I get the impression that a lot of people who are complaining about data being held digitally or who has access to their data aren't really that concerned about those things. Don't recall this outcry when our NHS data was being opened up for sale to third parties for example.

Seems similar to when people were citing mental health as a reason to end lockdown, when restrictions were removed they suddenly didn't care about mental health and were happy to tell anyone anxious about the removal of all restrictions to stay at home and be scared.

Mucca Mad Boys said:

First, the government doesn’t have the right to force people to get the vaccine.

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They aren't. You may need a vaccine for certain jobs, that was already the case pre-covid.

Mucca Mad Boys said:

Second, individuals have the right to choose whether or not to vaccinated.

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They do now and I have seen to nothing to suggest mandatory vaccines will be enforced for the general population in the future.

Mucca Mad Boys said:

A vaccine passport regime probably won’t be enforced

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Its for the government to put a system in place that enforces any vaccine passport requirements. In fact this is part of the argument in favour of vaccine passports. At the moment the government guidelines to venues is to check vaccination and / or test status but there have been reports of issues with enforcement as there are no official rules so they are having to accept things like text messages showing negative results.

Deleted member 5849 said:

Nobody's forcing people to get a vaccine though - just they're the ones restricted in what they can do slightly, in order that the majority don't find their liberties restricted more extremely in a full lockdown... that will include unvaccinated people anyway.

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What keeps being missed is its not a case of some people being restricted if vaccine passports are introduced against everyone being fine to go about life as usual. There are millions of people who are restricted at the moment because they are following official government advice to avoid places where there is likely to be unvaccinated people. The vast majority of those people have no choice in the matter where as anyone declining to use a vaccine passport would be doing so by choice.

You can't argue that its unfair to restrict people who don't want to use vaccine passports without addressing the issue of the millions of people who are being restricted by them not being implemented.