Peak Insanity Level Reached? (2 Viewers)

clint van damme · Oct 26, 2019

we've spent fuck knows how many billions in Syria during a time when up to 120,000 people have died in our country due to austerity.

During that time it's been found that British money was helping Al Nusra and the whole situation allowed ISIS to achieve their dream of establishing a caliphate, albeit briefly.
After all that Assad is still in charge and seemingly in a stronger position than ever.
As mad as removing a few urinals is, it's not in the same league!!

Sbarcher · Oct 26, 2019

Can I identify as a child and get a concession at St. Andrews?

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Oct 26, 2019

Sbarcher said:
Can I identify as a child and get a concession at St. Andrews?

Which leads me to ask the question , which toilets do transgender folk use at football matches, if indeed any actually go? ( To the football)
If they do go, do they dress down for the occasion ?
Shouldn't football clubs sell transgender shirts : slimfitting for the ladies which are I fact slightly larger, and men's shirts that are actually slimmer. Or just swap the labels over.

clint van damme · Oct 26, 2019

Sbarcher said:
Can I identify as a child and get a concession at St. Andrews?

people were doing that at HR 30 years ago. £1.80 on the gate instead of £3.60.

hill83 · Oct 26, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Which leads me to ask the question , which toilets do transgender folk use at football matches, if indeed any actually go? ( To the football)
If they do go, do they dress down for the occasion ?
Shouldn't football clubs sell transgender shirts : slimfitting for the ladies which are I fact slightly larger, and men's shirts that are actually slimmer. Or just swap the labels over.

My mate is in the early process of transitioning to a woman (I think she needs to actively live as a woman for 2 years before any surgery etc) and now identifies as a woman so uses the women’s facilities at work and out and about. Relatively simple stuff to work out to be fair.

All the jokes are incredible though, and so fresh.

shmmeee · Oct 28, 2019

hill83 said:
My mate is in the early process of transitioning to a woman (I think she needs to actively live as a woman for 2 years before any surgery etc) and now identifies as a woman so uses the women’s facilities at work and out and about. Relatively simple stuff to work out to be fair.

All the jokes are incredible though, and so fresh.

It’s really not relatively simple stuff. Maybe your mate is great and no danger, but we segregate the sexes for numerous reasons, privacy, religion, and most obviously the strength differential. Should he be allowed in a women’s prison fully intact? Should he be allowed to compete in women’s sports? Should a deeply religious beautician be forced to handle his genitals if she offers female waxing? Take a grant designed to promote women in an industry they are underrepresented in? These are not simple questions and a default of “just be nice” completely fails to take these into account. I’d also say that as blokes it’s really not our call to make.

Women should be allowed a say as to whether their rights are removed. Your mate will always be Male and there’s no congruent reason for them to be allowed access to women’s spaces. He should be safe in Male spaces just like I should if I just decided I look good with long hair and wearing a dress. That’s the fight to have, no forcing women to budge up because he’s uncomfortable.

Moreover the idea that being a woman is a state of mind is horrifically offensive. He has no idea what it feels like to be a woman, any more than I know what it feels like to be black. The best he can do is relate to a stereotypical view of womanhood based on sexist stereotypes.

I support him in doing whatever he wants in his life as long as it doesn’t infringe on others rights and I hope he finds peace. Obviously out of politeness I’d use his preferred pronouns in person, but I value fact and scientific accuracy and I don’t believe we should make laws based on woo. I was also raised with a deeply held belief that a woman’s biology doesn’t predict their interests and personality and to accept modern gender ideology is to throw that out the window.

Sbarcher · Oct 28, 2019

This world seems to be getting totally f***ed and extreme.
Last week there was a list out of the most influential black people. Can you imagine the outcry if there was a white list!
Kids being brought up as a neutral gender - what's that all about? It will end up with lots of these - Rachel McKinnon becomes first transgender woman to win track world title - Cycling Weekly
Vegans invading restaurants, by all means eat your grass but don't stuff your views down people's throats, we can think for ourselves thank you.
Climate change protesters bring cities to a standstill so they can revel in their "right on" chat over a latte.
All tv reality shows, Bake Off, Strictly etc seem now to have to include the right ethnic mix to be pc and of course there's accusations of racism if they get voted off first!
Seems to me that society has become too liberalised, and those spouting their views are given too much oxygen with little or no counter view. Of course, if you do offer a counter view you are now the one in the wrong by offending free speech and human rights.
I guess I'm old school where for decades all seemed very straight forward (apart from a few world wars) but in the last 5 years the world is having a thorough shake up.
Must stop now, just off to netball practice.

xcraigx · Oct 28, 2019

Sbarcher said:
This world seems to be getting totally f***ed and extreme.
Last week there was a list out of the most influential black people. Can you imagine the outcry if there was a white list!
Kids being brought up as a neutral gender - what's that all about? It will end up with lots of these - Rachel McKinnon becomes first transgender woman to win track world title - Cycling Weekly
Vegans invading restaurants, by all means eat your grass but don't stuff your views down people's throats, we can think for ourselves thank you.
Climate change protesters bring cities to a standstill so they can revel in their "right on" chat over a latte.
All tv reality shows, Bake Off, Strictly etc seem now to have to include the right ethnic mix to be pc and of course there's accusations of racism if they get voted off first!
Seems to me that society has become too liberalised, and those spouting their views are given too much oxygen with little or no counter view. Of course, if you do offer a counter view you are now the one in the wrong by offending free speech and human rights.
I guess I'm old school where for decades all seemed very straight forward (apart from a few world wars) but in the last 5 years the world is having a thorough shake up.
Must stop now, just off to netball practice.

Crickey, I never thought i'd see McKinnon name checked on here. A nasty piece of work that's for sure. Some of their (now deleted) tweets are shocking. I also see someone alluding to but not name checking Jessica Yaniv. That's worth a google if you have a spare afternoon.

shmmeee · Oct 28, 2019

xcraigx said:
Crickey, I never thought i'd see McKinnon name checked on here. A nasty piece of work that's for sure. Some of their (now deleted) tweets are shocking. I also see someone alluding to but not name checking Jessica Yaniv. That's worth a google if you have a spare afternoon.

Luckily Yaniv lost their case.

Will say that while these edge cases prove the point of being careful with legislation and how far we go, they don’t represent the majority of trans people who just want to get on with their lives.

xcraigx · Oct 28, 2019

shmmeee said:
Luckily Yaniv lost their case.

Will say that while these edge cases prove the point of being careful with legislation and how far we go, they don’t represent the majority of trans people who just want to get on with their lives.

That human rights trial and all the things going on around it was comedy gold. A writer with the most vivid imagination would struggle to come up with anything anywhere near as barking mad. Thankfully as you say, Yaniv et al are in the minority but I can fully understand the fears of people who do not agree with self ID.

oucho · Oct 28, 2019

Marty said:
The rest of society is bowing down to a vocal minority. They're doing more harm then good.

Even more bizarre, they have banned urinals in Portland to make toilets more 'inclusive' for trans people.

On what basis would you describe the Portland story or the oen reported by the OP as "harm"? Although rather comical can't see that anyone is harmed in either case.

shmmeee · Oct 28, 2019

oucho said:
On what basis would you describe the Portland story or the oen reported by the OP as "harm"? Although rather comical can't see that anyone is harmed in either case.

The harm is that you think trans rights are comical rather than a serious civil rights cause.

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 28, 2019

Sbarcher said:
I guess I'm old school where for decades all seemed very straight forward (apart from a few world wars) but in the last 5 years the world is having a thorough shake up.

Or alternatively, after a few thousand years spent trying to force people into one of two boxes we have realised and accepted that the truth is more nuanced. Does it bother you that much what a stranger identifies as?

oucho · Oct 28, 2019

shmmeee said:
The harm is that you think trans rights are comical rather than a serious civil rights cause.

I don't think that, actually.

shmmeee · Oct 28, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Or alternatively, after a few thousand years spent trying to force people into one of two boxes we have realised and accepted that the truth is more nuanced. Does it bother you that much what a stranger identifies as?

How many gametes are there?

Can I identify as black and claim a grant for BAME people? Can I identify as 70 and claim a pension? As disabled and claim PIP?

Women fought for their rights just like those groups. Who are you to say they should give them up?

shmmeee · Oct 28, 2019

oucho said:
I don't think that, actually.

Then why did you say you did?

Mcbean · Oct 28, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
They're not taking the piss?

Thought it was not testing the piss !

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 28, 2019

shmmeee said:
How many gametes are there?

Can I identify as black and claim a grant for BAME people? Can I identify as 70 and claim a pension? As disabled and claim PIP?

Women fought for their rights just like those groups. Who are you to say they should give them up?

??????

ccfc92 · Oct 28, 2019

shmmeee said:
Then why did you say you did?

I read it as the tampon story is comical, not Trans rights are comical. I may be wrong though.

xcraigx · Oct 28, 2019

shmmeee said:
Can I identify as black and claim a grant for BAME people?

It's happened before!

White actor who identifies as black criticised for winning place on scheme for Bame candidates

shmmeee · Oct 28, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
??????

Women have been granted rights that attempt to provide equality for them. If you “don’t care how anyone identifies” you are allowing anyone to claim those rights, meaning they no longer protect women.

To make the point clear I gave analogies with other protected groups. If you can see how they are wrong surely you can see how this is wrong?

hill83 · Oct 28, 2019

xcraigx said:
It's happened before!

White actor who identifies as black criticised for winning place on scheme for Bame candidates

He ended up finding out he was adopted and is a similar racial mix to me.

Someone had a gullible father.

shmmeee · Oct 28, 2019

ccfc92 said:
I read it as the tampon story is comical, not Trans rights are comical. I may be wrong though.

But the tampon story is part of the trans rights movement.

These stories harm that movement in the same way the old “baa baa nice sheep” stuff harmed race equality.

shmmeee · Oct 28, 2019

xcraigx said:
It's happened before!

White actor who identifies as black criticised for winning place on scheme for Bame candidates

As hill says he did have black heritage, a better analogy is Rachel Dolezal: Rachel Dolezal - Wikipedia

Also race isn’t actually a Scientific thing as far as I know, it’s basically arbitrary. Unlike sex.

oucho · Oct 28, 2019

shmmeee said:
Then why did you say you did?

No, I said that the two incidents in question did no harm to anyone, and yet another poster described the incidents as harmful.

shmmeee · Oct 28, 2019

oucho said:
No, I said that the two incidents in question did no harm to anyone, and yet another poster described the incidents as harmful.

Those incidents are examples of trans right activism. As this thread proves they will be used as part of an overarching “PC gawn mad” narrative that harms the fight for equality.

hill83 · Oct 28, 2019

shmmeee said:
As hill says he did have black heritage, a better analogy is Rachel Dolezal: Rachel Dolezal - Wikipedia

Also race isn’t actually a Scientific thing as far as I know, it’s basically arbitrary. Unlike sex.

Which is why identifying as another race in my opinion is pure nonsense.

xcraigx · Oct 28, 2019

hill83 said:
He ended up finding out he was adopted and is a similar racial mix to me.

Someone had a gullible father.

Haha, fair play. You live and learn! What a strange story.

hill83 · Oct 28, 2019

xcraigx said:
Haha, fair play. You live and learn! What a strange story.

Interesting how the follow up was barely reported though.

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 28, 2019

shmmeee said:
Women have been granted rights that attempt to provide equality for them. If you “don’t care how anyone identifies” you are allowing anyone to claim those rights, meaning they no longer protect women.

To make the point clear I gave analogies with other protected groups. If you can see how they are wrong surely you can see how this is wrong?

I think it's a bit off to assume that people identify the way they do for shits and giggles or to deprive others of their rights. It's an odd thing to get so wound up over

xcraigx · Oct 28, 2019

hill83 said:
Interesting how the follow up was barely reported though.

I'm testament to that. I read the initial story in a few different locations but didn't see the follow up make any column inches.

hill83 · Oct 28, 2019

xcraigx said:
I'm testament to that. I read the initial story in a few different locations but didn't see the follow up make any column inches.

Doesn’t fit the narrative.

shmmeee · Oct 28, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I think it's a bit off to assume that people identify the way they do for shits and giggles or to deprive others of their rights. It's an odd thing to get so wound up over

Where have I said that?

But clearly some people do as detailed in this thread.

Answer the question, why can’t I identify as a different age but I can a different sex? I find that level of misogyny “a bit off” to be fair. Women exist.

oucho · Oct 28, 2019

shmmeee said:
Those incidents are examples of trans right activism. As this thread proves they will be used as part of an overarching “PC gawn mad” narrative that harms the fight for equality.

Did you actually read what I wrote? You're quoting me and making an unrelated point.

shmmeee · Oct 28, 2019

oucho said:
Did you actually read what I wrote? You're quoting me and making an unrelated point.

You wrote:

oucho said:
On what basis would you describe the Portland story or the oen reported by the OP as "harm"? Although rather comical can't see that anyone is harmed in either case.

Implying that you felt these stories were comical (that or it was terribly written).

Again, these stories are serious attempts at trans activism. They are not skits by comedians.

You asked what the harm was. It’s this:

If you find them comical so will others and when asked to think about trans rights in other areas this will come to mind and they will think “that’s all that funny bollocks” and not “these poor people are treated unjustly and asking for fairness”. Ergo public support will be lower for the non “comical” requests.

I really can’t make it any simpler than that

Peak Insanity Level Reached? (2 Viewers)

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