Pens (1 Viewer)

shmmeee · Jun 1, 2023

Wh

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
How does two tosses make it fairer?

If one team gets to choose an end then the other gets to choose whether to go first, or vice versa. Now, as we saw, if you lose both tosses then you can be at a double disadvantage.

As others have said, I don't think there's even a need for a coin toss. Both teams could choose which end of the stadium they wanted to take them and using the ABBA system takes out the first shooter advantage. Never understood why the canned that - one of the few good ideas they had.

Get the fourth official at one end and the ref at the other and take them at the exact same time. Then you get the chance of the entire stadium celebrating a goal at once.

Players stuttering their run up so they can hear if the other scores. Mild confusion everywhere while people work out what’s happened.

skybluelee · Jun 1, 2023

Stafford_SkBlue said:
Won 11-10 against Burton, if memory is correct

And to think I was actually nervous watching that at the time, like it was in any way important.

skybluegod · Jun 1, 2023

Seaside-Skyblue said:
Why can't both goals be used? A keeper in each, both teams shooting in separate goals in front of own fans.

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Because the Referee & assistant would be sprinting between the two boxes to then monitor it... Would look farcical.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 1, 2023

skybluegod said:
Because the Referee & assistant would be sprinting between the two boxes to then monitor it... Would look farcical.

So?

If anything it makes we want to make all 22 players have to take one to come to a result.

EalingSB · Jun 1, 2023

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
How does two tosses make it fairer?

If one team gets to choose an end then the other gets to choose whether to go first, or vice versa. Now, as we saw, if you lose both tosses then you can be at a double disadvantage.

As others have said, I don't think there's even a need for a coin toss. Both teams could choose which end of the stadium they wanted to take them and using the ABBA system takes out the first shooter advantage. Never understood why the canned that - one of the few good ideas they had.

I agree with you. We were definitely at a double disadvantage on Saturday unfortunately.

its a buzzard · Jun 1, 2023

Penalties to be taken by both sides, at the same time, shooting in to the end with their own fans. Shooters to run from the centre spot - first to score gets the point.

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Mr Dave · Jun 1, 2023

This article is a bit light on specific details, but talks about Luton drawing on the recommendations of an FA study to practice everything around the process of the penalty shootout.

Not just the taking of the penalties; it’s where we all need to be at different stations, the way you’re going to try and stand, the breaths when you put the ball down. We knew the order as soon as the final whistle went, that order was done even with the changes that we made. We felt very organised and prepared for that moment.

OffenhamSkyBlue · Jun 1, 2023

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Not to do with penalty shoot-outs, but I'd love a rule that says during normal play the penalty taker has to be the person fouled or the last attacking player to touch the ball. Would make it more interesting and uncertain of scoring and stop strikers padding out their stats.

I like the idea, but this would have the unintended consequence of defenders believing that committing fouls or deliberate handballs in the box would not be a nailed-on goal, so would be more likely to do it.
It was the same when they made a try in rugby 5 points, with the hope that it would encourage more attempts to score tries and make the game more exciting. All it has done is enable people to concede more penalties because the impact is lessened!

Same as golden goals - they thought it would make everyone go hell-for-leather to score, but it just made people cagier and even more defensive to "avoid losing at all costs".

shmmeee · Jun 1, 2023

its a buzzard said:
Penalties to be taken by both sides, at the same time, shooting in to the end with their own fans. Shooters to run from the centre spot - first to score gets the point.

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Can we get some kind of ninja warrior course set up in each half just to add to the excitement?

HerneBayGaz · Jun 1, 2023

Seaside-Skyblue said:
Why can't both goals be used? A keeper in each, both teams shooting in separate goals in front of own fans.

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Good idea

its a buzzard · Jun 1, 2023

shmmeee said:
Can we get some kind of ninja warrior course set up in each half just to add to the excitement?

Of course, and insist each penalty taker has to put on and run to take the kick in a sumo suit.

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Macca1987 · Jun 1, 2023

Or we could have bungey ropes from the half way line tied to each penalty taker, with a set time to complete your kick

shmmeee · Jun 1, 2023

Macca1987 said:
Or we could have bungey ropes from the half way line tied to each penalty taker, with a set time to complete your kick

Opposition bench is set up with Nerf cannons down the sidelines.

Nick, delete this thread before the Americans see it.

ceetee · Jun 1, 2023

The Americans would have a separate penalty team to bring on

Legia Sky Blue · Jun 1, 2023

OffenhamSkyBlue said:
I like the idea, but this would have the unintended consequence of defenders believing that committing fouls or deliberate handballs in the box would not be a nailed-on goal, so would be more likely to do it.
It was the same when they made a try in rugby 5 points, with the hope that it would encourage more attempts to score tries and make the game more exciting. All it has done is enable people to concede more penalties because the impact is lessened!

Same as golden goals - they thought it would make everyone go hell-for-leather to score, but it just made people cagier and even more defensive to "avoid losing at all costs".

Golden Goal wouldn't get cagier if there were no penalties at all, and if teams had to take a player off every 5 minutes or so until a winner is scored. The extra space on the pitch would soon guarantee a goal scored at one end or the other. Would be interesting tactically how managers approached such a scenario in their choice of players to take off also. Unfortunately it's never gonna happen though.

its a buzzard · Jun 1, 2023

Legia Sky Blue said:
Golden Goal wouldn't get cagier if there were no penalties at all, and if teams had to take a player off every 5 minutes or so until a winner is scored. The extra space on the pitch would soon guarantee a goal scored at one end or the other. Would be interesting tactically how managers approached such a scenario in their choice of players to take off also. Unfortunately it's never gonna happen though.

It gets my vote, especially if the opposition manager chooses who to take off. Let's make it happen.

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its a buzzard · Jun 1, 2023

its a buzzard said:
It gets my vote, especially if the opposition manager chooses who to take off. Let's make it happen.

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Take players off every minute, not five. Should get a result in short order.

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San Francisco · Jun 1, 2023

ceetee said:
The Americans would have a separate penalty team to bring on

With a lengthy commercial break between kicks.

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 1, 2023

Mr Dave said:
This article is a bit light on specific details, but talks about Luton drawing on the recommendations of an FA study to practice everything around the process of the penalty shootout.

Yep they prepared for their captain to collapse after 10 mins too

its a buzzard · Jun 1, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
Yep they prepared for their captain to collapse after 10 mins too

They were pretty thorough, then.

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rob9872 · Jun 1, 2023

A lot of suggestions for the ABBA system, but the result is still the same and the winner takes it all.

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 1, 2023

rob9872 said:
A lot of suggestions for the ABBA system, but the result is still the same and the winner takes it all.

Statistically fairer
It’s 60:40 taking first

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT · Jun 1, 2023

rob9872 said:
A lot of suggestions for the ABBA system, but the result is still the same and the winner takes it all.

Haha. Don't give up the day job.

rob9872 · Jun 1, 2023

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT said:
Haha. Don't give up the day job.

Mamma Mia!

Hoping someone will take a chance on me and I can make some money money money.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 1, 2023

OffenhamSkyBlue said:
I like the idea, but this would have the unintended consequence of defenders believing that committing fouls or deliberate handballs in the box would not be a nailed-on goal, so would be more likely to do it.
It was the same when they made a try in rugby 5 points, with the hope that it would encourage more attempts to score tries and make the game more exciting. All it has done is enable people to concede more penalties because the impact is lessened!

Same as golden goals - they thought it would make everyone go hell-for-leather to score, but it just made people cagier and even more defensive to "avoid losing at all costs".

I get the point, but the chance of the penalty being scored would still be quite high. And if players knew that they may have to take one I'm sure they would practice them regularly and so become more likely to score them.

Plus coaching a goalkeeper for penalties becomes harder. As it is the coaching team focusing on maybe two or three individuals and look at where they tend to put penalties etc. and pass that info on to the keeper for games. Can't do that if the taker is going to be more random.

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT · Jun 1, 2023

rob9872 said:
Mamma Mia!

Hoping someone will take a chance on me and I can make some money money money.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 1, 2023

its a buzzard said:
Of course, and insist each penalty taker has to put on and run to take the kick in a sumo suit.

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Or has to twist around five times before taking the kick.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 1, 2023

shmmeee said:
Opposition bench is set up with Nerf cannons down the sidelines.

Nick, delete this thread before the Americans see it.

If Leonard Brody were still here he'd be furiously writing all this down

SBAndy · Jun 1, 2023

Penalties to be taken at both ends but only one ball in play. After team 1 has taken theirs the keeper has to recover the ball and boot it to his player at the other end of the ground. No requirement for keeper to stay on his line. If the ball goes out of play then you’ve conceded possession.

Actually, considering Wilson’s kicking that may not be the best suggestion.

PM16 · Jun 2, 2023

Think someone mentioned this research earlier, but I heard an interview with Carlisle chairman on pens. He said that both Carlisle and Luton used a study on pens by a guy called Chris Markham who used to be at the FA now at Bolton. All about the psychology of pens, breathing techniques, anxiety management etc. Both clubs had been using it for weeks before Wembley.

Wonder if Robins did too? Hope so (tbf apart from Dabs, our pens were decent) but we had less time to prepare.

Ginny74 · Jun 2, 2023

Said this at the time and still annoys me. Having both choice of end and 1st penalty is way too big an advantage to give to one side. In a game that has been drawn so going into equal. Should be one coin toss, whoever wins gets choice of end or order.

Frank Sidebottom · Jun 2, 2023

I think the ABBA method was deemed too confusing after the initial trial and was therefore scrapped.
I think the teams should get to choose the oppositions penalty takers and the takers should only be revealed by the ref seconds beforehand in a straight to sudden death scenario.

mark82 · Jun 2, 2023

Grendel said:
The team that finished higher should go through after 120 minutes

Alright in playoffs, but not other competitions.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 2, 2023

Timperley said:
I think the ABBA method was deemed too confusing after the initial trial and was therefore scrapped.
I think the teams should get to choose the oppositions penalty takers and the takers should only be revealed by the ref seconds beforehand in a straight to sudden death scenario.

How confusing can it be?!

If people find that too confusing then I'm not sure they should be allowed out without adult supervision.

Sky Blue Harry H · Jun 2, 2023

Timperley said:
I think the teams should get to choose the oppositions penalty takers

Yeah - we'd have chosen Lockyer, and they'd have picked Hamer

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