Plan B? (1 Viewer)

Sky_Blue_Bob · Oct 6, 2019

Was at the game yesterday, really hoping it was just a bad day at the office. However, it felt like from the off Rotherham had us figured out and closed down the back four and stopped us playing our usual passing game. Just wondering if we’ve got any sort of plan b we can go to even just for ten minutes to give us a chance to get a foothold and then back to the football. Don’t get me wrong I’m loving the football we are playing and there will be mistakes when trying to play that way at this level but just wondering if we’ve got any sort of plan b for when it’s not working? Onto the the next on! PUSB

Fergusons_Beard · Oct 6, 2019

Just said the same thing on the match thread.

One criticism of Robins is his lack of plan B.

They matched our formation by playing 3 at the back and packing midfield.

Tactically naive or resolute in his players to keep to a certain way of playing?

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Sky Blue Harry H · Oct 6, 2019

Any other coaches will have had a look at that and ,particularly when we are playing away, the high press is likely to happen more often, Peterborough is the one game when you would expect it (Eisa and Toney both being quick). The games we have looked a bit more vulnerable have (I think) tended to be when Kelly has been missing, so hopefully that solves part of the problem. The second issue is, if we start going longer, we need to be able to hold the ball up front/out wide. That second part isn't an obvious strength, but MR and staff will clearly be having a look at that.

Dickie · Oct 6, 2019

I hope Kelly hasn’t been rushed back.

chiefdave · Oct 6, 2019

If other teams are pressing high shouldn't that mean they tire towards the end of the game from all the chasing and there is more space in midfield for us to control the game. If they're pressing why can't we just pass it forward past them?

cc84cov · Oct 6, 2019

Blueprint is there...High press us

Yesterday we needed to go 4231 or 442 with a target man I don’t get why we make subs but keep the same shape/system

cc84cov · Oct 6, 2019

chiefdave said:
If other teams are pressing high shouldn't that mean they tire towards the end of the game from all the chasing and there is more space in midfield for us to control the game. If they're pressing why can't we just pass it forward past them?

We can do that but ball retention needs to be better yesterday we crumbled under the high press we didn’t look after it properly & with our style of passing you give the ball away under a high press we will get a lot more of these results this season.

Sky Blue Harry H · Oct 6, 2019

Dickie said:
I hope Kelly hasn’t been rushed back.

Says his ankle feels fine - just needs to get match fit again (post match comments)

cc84cov · Oct 6, 2019

Sky Blue Harry H said:
Says his ankle feels fine - just needs to get match fit again (post match comments)

Hasn’t been out too long I don’t see him playing midweek but starting next week with O’Hare playing wide right

Marosi
Dabo hyam rose mason
Walsh Kelly Shipley
O’Hare Godden Hiwula

chiefdave · Oct 6, 2019

cc84cov said:
We can do that but ball retention needs to be better yesterday we crumbled under the high press we didn’t look after it properly & with our style of passing you give the ball away under a high press we will get a lot more of these results this season.

Thats what I mean. The problem wasn't the tactics, it was the players inability to pass the ball a few feet to a teammate.

I appreciate they're L1 players and sometimes a pass is going to go astray but yesterday was ridiculous.

I think we should look to sort out a basic, simple problem before we throw out the system completely and start again. What system are we going to bring in where being able to pass to a teammate isn't a requirement?

Marty · Oct 6, 2019

I think the formation we've been playing has largely looked good, the one concern I have with it, is the service to Godden. You could put Lewandowski in our side and he wouldn't score due to the lack of quality with the final ball.

Don't remember either of the full backs breaking into midfield like they were doing previously, particularly Mason looks very dangerous breaking through.

Clearly need a plan B, wouldn't mind seeing 2 up front, get Max/Bakayoko creating/supporting for Godden.

clint van damme · Oct 6, 2019

cc84cov said:
Blueprint is there...High press us

Yesterday we needed to go 4231 or 442 with a target man I don’t get why we make subs but keep the same shape/system

someone was saying the other day, (Can't remember who but it was a top EPL pleyer) that it's virtually impossible to work a high press for 90 minutes.
It's not so much a plan B as being adaptable to play a certain way when the high press is on and a certain way when it isn't. Not just blindly following the same tactics regardless of what the opposition are doing.

cc84cov · Oct 6, 2019

clint van damme said:
someone was saying the other day, (Can't remember who but it was a top EPL pleyer) that it's virtually impossible to work a high press for 90 minutes.
It's not so much a plan B as being adaptable to play a certain way when the high press is on and a certain way when it isn't. Not just blindly following the same tactics regardless of what the opposition are doing.

I said yesterday Rotherham won’t be able to keep this up we will get to them but then we were just too far behind

David O'Day · Oct 6, 2019

cc84cov said:
Blueprint is there...High press us

Yesterday we needed to go 4231 or 442 with a target man I don’t get why we make subs but keep the same shape/system

442? Fuck that you Mike Bassett c**t

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cc84cov · Oct 6, 2019

David O'Day said:
442? Fuck that you Mike Bassett c**t

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

lol so you think we done the right thing staying in 433 yesterday ?

Paul Anthony · Oct 6, 2019

I'm not sure it's a case of needing to change philosophy to long ball at all, given Rotherham have some big units in their team, but clearly in games like that playing a three man midfield leaves us short of options to pass forward, and when they're pressing that high up, passing backwards is dangerous. We needed to have more presence in midfield to try and counter it I feel.

clint van damme said:
someone was saying the other day, (Can't remember who but it was a top EPL pleyer) that it's virtually impossible to work a high press for 90 minutes.
It's not so much a plan B as being adaptable to play a certain way when the high press is on and a certain way when it isn't. Not just blindly following the same tactics regardless of what the opposition are doing.

This is exactly the point I tried to make in a thread yesterday. Having a philosophy is fine, but there are weaknesses to it and times where it won't work. Yesterday was one of those times. We need to have something in store for when this kind of thing does happen. Maybe a formation change that offers us more bodies in midfield to pass to but doesn't mean we have to revert to old style lump it long and see type tactics. Its not about abandoning a philosophy, more about adapting it to work better in the times where it isn't working.

theferret · Oct 6, 2019

cc84cov said:
I said yesterday Rotherham won’t be able to keep this up we will get to them but then we were just too far behind

Yeah, I think that's why we've had so much joy late in games this season. Yesterday, the 3rd goal and sending off just killed it.

Think we should keep playing as we are, but we need to be a little more streetwise away from home.

SkyblueTexan · Oct 6, 2019

Totally agree with the idea of a plan B and finding a way to counter the high press which is hard for an opposition to sustain for a full 90 minutes. Teams like Rotherham, Blackpool, Portsmouth, AFC Wimbledon etc. have all benefited from pressing our backline and picking off back passes that are underhit to score or get penalties. This seems to happen more often early in games and more often that not (especially in recent matches) we have been forced to come from behind, which is tough to do. 3 of the 4 goals conceded against Rotherham were due to our own defensive errors. So clearly teams are doing their homework on us and know how to exploit our obvious weaknesses. For all the goals and penalties conceded, there have also been numerous occasions where we have been extremely fortunate to escape being punished for playing the ball out from the back. While I am not suggesting to totally change playing style or formations, we clearly need to adapt, counter the high press by playing the ball over/around it, exploit spaces that the opposition will leave in their back line due to their high press and so on. In a way I am glad we got smashed by Rotherham because I feel we needed a wake-up call and have been a little too casual with the ball around our own 6 yard box.

clint van damme · Oct 6, 2019

SkyblueTexan said:
Totally agree with the idea of a plan B and finding a way to counter the high press which is hard for an opposition to sustain for a full 90 minutes. Teams like Rotherham, Blackpool, Portsmouth, AFC Wimbledon etc. have all benefited from pressing our backline and picking off back passes that are underhit to score or get penalties. This seems to happen more often early in games and more often that not (especially in recent matches) we have been forced to come from behind, which is tough to do. 3 of the 4 goals conceded against Rotherham were due to our own defensive errors. So clearly teams are doing their homework on us and know how to exploit our obvious weaknesses. For all the goals and penalties conceded, there have also been numerous occasions where we have been extremely fortunate to escape being punished for playing the ball out from the back. While I am not suggesting to totally change playing style or formations, we clearly need to adapt, counter the high press by playing the ball over/around it, exploit spaces that the opposition will leave in their back line due to their high press and so on. In a way I am glad we got smashed by Rotherham because I feel we needed a wake-up call and have been a little too casual with the ball around our own 6 yard box.

I think I've asked you this before but remind me, where are you in Texas?

stevefloyd · Oct 6, 2019

cc84cov said:
Hasn’t been out too long I don’t see him playing midweek but starting next week with O’Hare playing wide right

Marosi
Dabo hyam rose mason
Walsh Kelly Shipley
O’Hare Godden Hiwula

Is Mcfadz banned for Tuesday if not stick him in and tell him to go out prove it was a one off and not to keep giving stupid fucking goals away

Sky Blue Harry H · Oct 6, 2019

stevefloyd said:
Is Mcfadz banned for Tuesday if not stick him in and tell him to go out prove it was a one off and not to keep giving stupid fucking goals away

Banned for Tranmere game (not midweek forest green) so yes I'd play him on Tuesday - although he could play Williams, Drysdale there too.

SkyblueTexan · Oct 6, 2019

clint van damme said:
I think I've asked you this before but remind me, where are you in Texas?

Hi Clint,
I am in the Houston area.

clint van damme · Oct 6, 2019

SkyblueTexan said:
Hi Clint,
I am in the Houston area.

one of the fastest growing cities in the US I believe.
Was in Austin a couple of years ago, absolutely loved it.

cc84cov · Oct 6, 2019

chiefdave said:
Thats what I mean. The problem wasn't the tactics, it was the players inability to pass the ball a few feet to a teammate.

I appreciate they're L1 players and sometimes a pass is going to go astray but yesterday was ridiculous.

I think we should look to sort out a basic, simple problem before we throw out the system completely and start again. What system are we going to bring in where being able to pass to a teammate isn't a requirement?

The midfield has to make sure the pass is on for the defenders with ball at feet if the midfield is off you can see things like yesterday will happen We got bullied all over the pitch yesterday but when you look at Walsh,O’Hare & Shipley there isn’t enough or any steel there.With Kelly back we will be ok we’ve been lucky we picked up the points we did without him I feel tbh

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Oct 6, 2019

chiefdave said:
If other teams are pressing high shouldn't that mean they tire towards the end of the game from all the chasing and there is more space in midfield for us to control the game. If they're pressing why can't we just pass it forward past them?

I guess that's the plan B - if all their lines go high to press there should be space behind so if we have some pace and someone capable of playing long balls you knock it behind and play direct (sorry, long ball because we're not PL)

They should tire towards the end - maybe that's why we've got so many late goals?

SkyblueTexan · Oct 6, 2019

clint van damme said:
one of the fastest growing cities in the US I believe.
Was in Austin a couple of years ago, absolutely loved it.

Yes, Houston is among the top 20 fastest growing US cities, but probably not as fast as Austin which I like a lot as well. But the great thing about where I am is the cost of living is low and, unlike Austin, I can fly direct from Houston to pretty much anywhere in the US (which is important to me for work reasons). The airport here allows for international travel as well (was on a week-long vacation in the UK earlier this summer).

ccfc1234 · Oct 6, 2019

Have been to Austin, Dallas and Fort Worth. You been to Billy Bobs in the Stockyards? Loved it and need to go back there soon!
Wish we had your climate in the UK (hurricanes aside!). What took you to Texas love or money!!

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT · Oct 6, 2019

Fergusons_Beard said:
One criticism of Robins is his lack of plan B.Tactically naive or resolute in his players to keep to a certain way of playing?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That's my problem with Robins, he's reluctant to change the formation when it's not working and he doesn't play his strikers in the right position, ie two strikers up front.

Which is strange because when Robins played for Man United he played in a front two.

Magwitch · Oct 6, 2019

Rotherham bullied us, men v boys at times

SAJ · Oct 6, 2019

To me we virtually created all their four goals for them. We were bullied and out numbered in midfield and when the ball went forward we couldn’t hold it. General ball control was poor mainly due to the press.
I was expecting at half time a change with Kelly coming on for Kastaneer and moving to a 4231 but it obviously didn’t happen. In my opinion that would have given us a foothold in the game and a chance to get back at them.
I struggle to understand why we don’t have a plan b which frustrates the hell out of me. It was obvious what Rotherham’s plan was and the management just failed to do anything about it.

larry_david · Oct 6, 2019

SkyblueTexan said:
Totally agree with the idea of a plan B and finding a way to counter the high press which is hard for an opposition to sustain for a full 90 minutes. Teams like Rotherham, Blackpool, Portsmouth, AFC Wimbledon etc. have all benefited from pressing our backline and picking off back passes that are underhit to score or get penalties. This seems to happen more often early in games and more often that not (especially in recent matches) we have been forced to come from behind, which is tough to do. 3 of the 4 goals conceded against Rotherham were due to our own defensive errors. So clearly teams are doing their homework on us and know how to exploit our obvious weaknesses. For all the goals and penalties conceded, there have also been numerous occasions where we have been extremely fortunate to escape being punished for playing the ball out from the back. While I am not suggesting to totally change playing style or formations, we clearly need to adapt, counter the high press by playing the ball over/around it, exploit spaces that the opposition will leave in their back line due to their high press and so on. In a way I am glad we got smashed by Rotherham because I feel we needed a wake-up call and have been a little too casual with the ball around our own 6 yard box.

Spot on. There was so oooo much space in the centre circle part of the pitch from our gks because they were so far up.

CCFC54321 · Oct 6, 2019

SkyblueTexan said:
Totally agree with the idea of a plan B and finding a way to counter the high press which is hard for an opposition to sustain for a full 90 minutes. Teams like Rotherham, Blackpool, Portsmouth, AFC Wimbledon etc. have all benefited from pressing our backline and picking off back passes that are underhit to score or get penalties. This seems to happen more often early in games and more often that not (especially in recent matches) we have been forced to come from behind, which is tough to do. 3 of the 4 goals conceded against Rotherham were due to our own defensive errors. So clearly teams are doing their homework on us and know how to exploit our obvious weaknesses. For all the goals and penalties conceded, there have also been numerous occasions where we have been extremely fortunate to escape being punished for playing the ball out from the back. While I am not suggesting to totally change playing style or formations, we clearly need to adapt, counter the high press by playing the ball over/around it, exploit spaces that the opposition will leave in their back line due to their high press and so on. In a way I am glad we got smashed by Rotherham because I feel we needed a wake-up call and have been a little too casual with the ball around our own 6 yard box.

good post. The two games before Saturday indicated we had a problem with playing from the back and the players weren’t 100% comfortable doing it. It was only a matter of time before was worked out and the management team should have had the warning signs about being punished soon. The problem is a tiny small minority think this way of playing should be applied each game. You simply can’t do this every week and rely on last minute goals etc to get you out the mire.

Robins has done a superb job but shouldn’t like anyone be above scrutiny. I’m sure he is learning still as well. The goals were result of mis placed passes due to overplaying in the wrong areas.

oscillatewildly · Oct 7, 2019

SkyblueTexan said:
Hi Clint,
I am in the Houston area.

I'll be making a trip over to Houston next January.

SkyBlueScottie · Oct 8, 2019

Some whoppers in here... "Tactically naive" Plan B" One loss and we should be more "direct" the one I never fail to hear is "get into em"

covcity4life · Oct 8, 2019

yes because plan A is such a failure so far...

Plan B? (1 Viewer)

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