Politics decide if you can be a manager ? (1 Viewer)

[Disorganised1]

Paulo DiCanio is being given a hard time because of his fascist beliefs.

David Milliband has resigned from the board - The miners have asked for a union banner on display at the ground to be returned, because of all the miners who died fighting the fascists, and various groups have said its not right.

Since when did your politics decide what job you can do ?

Is it OK to be a nurse if you vote Tory ?

Is it OK to play for Arsenal if you're a UKIP supporter ? (We already know you're not suitable to be an adoptive parent.)

What about if you're a climate change skeptic ? Is it OK to be a teacher ?

What the hell is going on ?

 

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[dadgad]

Completely different situations.

Sunderland are answerable to their fans.

Politics is bigger than Sport.

Di Canio has never renounced Italian Fascism. He should and in unequivocal terms.
The fact that he hasn't - indeed he frequently ducks the issue - shows that he should not be in public life....let alone the manager of a F.C.

 

[Disorganised1]

The fascist party in Italy is a recognised political party - you are saying he should not be manager because you disagree with his views ?

 

[Macca]

The country is run by the thought police these days who make your decisions for you

 

[Real]

You are allowed to have your say, as long as you say the right things. Freedom of speech 2013 style. Laughable.

 

[scroobiustom]

The fascist party in Italy is a recognised political party - you are saying he should not be manager because you disagree with his views ?

Don't think anyone is saying that, its the idea of a "manager" being prejudice towards "his players", that has people worried - the Nazi salute to the Lazio fans doesn't help either.

All of this is just further indication that the BBC doesn't care about football outside the Premiership and top European levels - he was the same manager at Swindon, with the same "ideals" he hasn't overnight become this Mussolini supporting, neolithic controversial character!

 

[rob9872]

Talented, playr, talented manager, controversial, pure box office entertainment. Love him or loathe him the game is better with him in it.

 

[kg82]

Scroobius, that's what really grinds my gears in this, the mass media agenda with the fallout whereas at Swindon if he was ever mentioned it was in a kind of jovial way! Sunderland fans have pissed me off in this too with their self-righteous, better than you attitude. My opinion, national politics and a person's beliefs have no place in football. Sunderland have gone further down in my estimation.

 

[Jackoskyblue]

He had hardly any issues managing Swindon but now he's in the prem he should be excluded from football, god I hate the prem, hope Di Canio shuts them all up plus the Man U loving Media

 

[dadgad]

The fascist party in Italy is a recognised political party - you are saying he should not be manager because you disagree with his views ?

And that's a good thing?
Jeeez! Italy, the most corrupt, divided and viciously racist society in Europe. That's exactly why the Fascists still have a voice there. Democracy is not compatible with a party that adopts racism as it central defining policy.
Ffs!!

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Di Canio is having a hard time because of his fascist views because Britain is very much an anti-fascist country, 60-odd years ago, we were fighting Di Canio's in Italy and Germany. More importantly, fascism is a political programme that is extremely nationalist, borderline racist to other countries. Undoubtedly, fascists are racist against immigrants and other ethnic minorities.

He is being challenged because of his extreme politics and that's what we need to do in society, we can't just ignore fascism because its popularity will grow, they need to be challenged in open debate.

 

[kg82]

If the media didn't bring up any of his political views then nobody would hear about it. Football is for watching, playing, enjoying. Not politics.

 

[dadgad]

If the media didn't bring up any of his political views then nobody would hear about it. Football is for watching, playing, enjoying. Not politics.

Bollox - just count yourself lucky that you believe that.....a direct consequence of sacrifices made on your behalf.

 

[kg82]

Bollox - just count yourself lucky that you believe that.....a direct consequence of sacrifices made on your behalf.

Calm yourself down. It's bollocks because it's not your opinion - slightly ironic considering your views on this.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Completely different situations.

Sunderland are answerable to their fans.

Politics is bigger than Sport.

Di Canio has never renounced Italian Fascism. He should and in unequivocal terms.
The fact that he hasn't - indeed he frequently ducks the issue - shows that he should not be in public life....let alone the manager of a F.C.

Has he renounced Communism?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Completely different situations.

Sunderland are answerable to their fans.

Politics is bigger than Sport.

Di Canio has never renounced Italian Fascism. He should and in unequivocal terms.
The fact that he hasn't - indeed he frequently ducks the issue - shows that he should not be in public life....let alone the manager of a F.C.

And another thing...I'll bet more people could tell you who the Manager of England (football, rugby, cricket & provably a fair few other sports too)is than who is the minister for sport - so IS politics bigger than sport? It may be more important for economic reasons...but it has a much lower perceived impact & importance in daily life.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Has he renounced Communism?

Has he ever said he's a communist? No, but he's said "I'm a fascist, not a racist" and said of Mussolini "He was basically a very principled individual. Yet he turned against his sense of right and wrong. He compromised his ethics".

Communism if you look at the doctrine teaches equality despite nationality, age, disability, religion, sex, sexual orientation etc. what's offensive about that? Fascism teaches intolerance of: other nationalities, homosexuals, ethnic minorities (blacks, Jews etc.), religion (Jews and Muslims etc.), immigrants, disability and somewhat sex, what isn't offensive here?! Fascism shouldn't be tolerated in a modern society and anyone who is a fascist should be challenged, regardless of occupation.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Don't think anyone is saying that, its the idea of a "manager" being prejudice towards "his players", that has people worried - the Nazi salute to the Lazio fans doesn't help either.

All of this is just further indication that the BBC doesn't care about football outside the Premiership and top European levels - he was the same manager at Swindon, with the same "ideals" he hasn't overnight become this Mussolini supporting, neolithic controversial character!

Mussolini...things move on...do the modern Italian fascists share the same views? Our political parties do not hold the same views as they had at the time of WWII - doubt theirs have. Modern era mindset is more respectful of individual's professionalism to suggest Di Canio would exercise any prejudice he may have, or not as the case might be, in selection of the team.

It's media hysteria to give the media in general something to talk about.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Has he ever said he's a communist? No, but he's said "I'm a fascist, not a racist" and said of Mussolini "He was basically a very principled individual. Yet he turned against his sense of right and wrong. He compromised his ethics".

Communism if you look at the doctrine teaches equality despite nationality, age, disability, religion, sex, sexual orientation etc. what's offensive about that? Fascism teaches intolerance of: other nationalities, homosexuals, ethnic minorities (blacks, Jews etc.), religion (Jews and Muslims etc.), immigrants, disability and somewhat sex, what isn't offensive here?! Fascism shouldn't be tolerated in a modern society and anyone who is a fascist should be challenged, regardless of occupation.

Communist doctrine is not the same as communism in practice...Tibet...the sole example I'll give. It's so far left it meets the right when it comes to killing in the name of!

In this country we allow people with strong political & religious views to teach, run businesses, perform surgery etc without question - why pick on a facist?...which is actually discrimination in itself!
I'm sure some GPs hold strong (possibly unpalatable) religious beliefs & views about their patient's religions. Do we trust them to do their job in trusted fashion? or should we engineer things so they only treat their own kind? Or should we stop them practicing medicine???

 

[dadgad]

And another thing...I'll bet more people could tell you who the Manager of England (football, rugby, cricket & provably a fair few other sports too)is than who is the minister for sport - so IS politics bigger than sport? It may be more important for economic reasons...but it has a much lower perceived impact & importance in daily life.

That - (your take on what I mean by politics) is, well, slightly superficial....dare I add, simplistic.
All our actions are to a greater or lesser extent, political.
Buying a pint of milk, crossing the road, posting on the Internet...all these simple actions have a political dimension whether we like it or not. The things we take for granted are a consequence of our political freedom which is upheld and defined by our values, culture, laws and traditions.
Sport (such as it is) is an activity which is defined by all of the above....not the other way round.
I agree the press/media are inconsistent re the Di Canio stuff but the higher the profile the more people will feel obliged to comment, hand in their season tickets, etc.
I'll be surprised if Di Canio is still there in a month tbh let alone next season.
He's a breath of fresh air in the stultifying and moronic world of professional football but to survive in this game you have to be able to be a bit cynical and play along. Di Canio isn't capable of this, he's a loose cannon, about to go off.

 

[dadgad]

Has he ever said he's a communist? No, but he's said "I'm a fascist, not a racist" and said of Mussolini "He was basically a very principled individual. Yet he turned against his sense of right and wrong. He compromised his ethics".

Communism if you look at the doctrine teaches equality despite nationality, age, disability, religion, sex, sexual orientation etc. what's offensive about that? Fascism teaches intolerance of: other nationalities, homosexuals, ethnic minorities (blacks, Jews etc.), religion (Jews and Muslims etc.), immigrants, disability and somewhat sex, what isn't offensive here?! Fascism shouldn't be tolerated in a modern society and anyone who is a fascist should be challenged, regardless of occupation.

Precisely. It beggars belief that anybody could think any differently. The evidence of just why this is so critical is evidenced by how riven Italian politics is, by prejudice and racism. Berlusconi instigated a house to house search for immigrants a few years ago code named "a white Christmas".
This in part was to appease the fascists.
Unbelievable.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

That - (your take on what I mean by politics) is, well, slightly superficial....dare I add, simplistic.
All our actions are to a greater or lesser extent, political.
Buying a pint of milk, crossing the road, posting on the Internet...all these simple actions have a political dimension whether we like it or not. The things we take for granted are a consequence of our political freedom which is upheld and defined by our values, culture, laws and traditions.
Sport (such as it is) is an activity which is defined by all of the above....not the other way round.
I agree the press/media are inconsistent re the Di Canio stuff but the higher the profile the more people will feel obliged to comment, hand in their season tickets, etc.
I'll be surprised if Di Canio is still there in a month tbh let alone next season.
He's a breath of fresh air in the stultifying and moronic world of professional football but to survive in this game you have to be able to be a bit cynical and play along. Di Canio isn't capable of this, he's a loose cannon, about to go off.

Which is why I used the word "perceived". Having said that - I believe all that is wrong with CCFCs current plight is in no small part, a result of NOT keeping things simplistic! in fact a lot in politics & law is too. De-simplified to a point of losing sight of basic principles...needs...wants...morals even. Also, given your response, which dare I suggest is much less than simplistic, I'm guessing you would make at least a half decent politician if not one already?!

 

[Disorganised1]

"Jeeez! Italy, the most corrupt, divided and viciously racist society in Europe."

If you think that then I suggest you go to Russia, or Serbia, or the Ukraine.

I am of the view that fascism is wrong, but then again I think socialism is wrong, I also think global corporations are wrong. Labels are very simple things, and can become the umbrella we shelter behind.

I despise your views, but will defend with my dying breath your right to hold them, is very easy to say, but many people seem to struggle with the reality of it.

I was unhappy when Denis Wise came to the club, because I believed his win at all costs mentality was wrong. I was against signing Marlon King, because I don't believe his attitudes towards women have changed. I know neither of these men, but this is my opinion of them.

DiCanio has earned the right to be a Premiership manager because of his success in football, indeed one might almost say he is a parable for the values of the Premiership ~ success counts above all else.

I fail to understand why suddenly all these people have suddenly developed principles.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Precisely. It beggars belief that anybody could think any differently. The evidence of just why this is so critical is evidenced by how riven Italian politics is, by prejudice and racism. Berlusconi instigated a house to house search for immigrants a few years ago code named "a white Christmas".
This in part was to appease the fascists.
Unbelievable.

That's the thing see? We agree on pretty much all points really. There's a difference between tolerance & appeasement. I disapprove of what I think we agree are extreme views. We have to be careful though because its easy to start mud-slinging. A Tory voter doesn't necessarily agree with IDS benefits changes - but might agree entirely with the Tory stance on the EU. That is tolerated...accepted as a different opinion. Di Canio IF he is a sympathiser or indeed hardened facist can be tolerated - as long as he doesn't start actually "living" the doctrine.

Assuming you agree with Real's post on pg1 of this thread about freedom of speech...you cannot then shoot someone like Di Canio (or me!) down (i.e. persecute them) just because you don't like their views.
Di Canio is also quoted as saying "Yet he turned against his sense of right and wrong. He compromised his ethics" of Mussolini - so may only be sympathetic to some facist views & not the more extreme persecution type ones.

Lets face it - not so long ago people in the UK were hounded/forced to resign from certain roles because they were gay (i.e. persecuted). We have also seen abuse of power, expense fiddling, corrupt banks, immoral businessmen so even our society in some ways is not too far removed from the Italian one.

I too dislike very extreme left & right politics but there is a big difference between tolerating & appeasing those that hold such leanings IMO.

 

[TrueSkyBlueLiam]

If i was a Sunderland fan (And thank the lord im not, they're scum), i wouldnt give 2 shits about Paulo's beliefs. All i would care about would be what he could do on the training ground and in the dugout. All that matters is the effort and the results. Fuck his beliefs. He's not gonna go on about them in his interviews so why should you? Lets get back to football yh?

 

[Jackoskyblue]

So it's ok for a rapist and a murderer to be footballers but a fascist cannot be a manager ? Just media and everyone jumping on the bandwagon, sure some people would have had him here in a flash.

 

[dadgad]

That's the thing see? We agree on pretty much all points really. There's a difference between tolerance & appeasement. I disapprove of what I think we agree are extreme views. We have to be careful though because its easy to start mud-slinging. A Tory voter doesn't necessarily agree with IDS benefits changes - but might agree entirely with the Tory stance on the EU. That is tolerated...accepted as a different opinion. Di Canio IF he is a sympathiser or indeed hardened facist can be tolerated - as long as he doesn't start actually "living" the doctrine.

Assuming you agree with Real's post on pg1 of this thread about freedom of speech...you cannot then shoot someone like Di Canio (or me!) down (i.e. persecute them) just because you don't like their views.
Di Canio is also quoted as saying "Yet he turned against his sense of right and wrong. He compromised his ethics" of Mussolini - so may only be sympathetic to some facist views & not the more extreme persecution type ones.

Lets face it - not so long ago people in the UK were hounded/forced to resign from certain roles because they were gay (i.e. persecuted). We have also seen abuse of power, expense fiddling, corrupt banks, immoral businessmen so even our society in some ways is not too far removed from the Italian one.

I too dislike very extreme left & right politics but there is a big difference between tolerating & appeasing those that hold such leanings IMO.

I notice that today Di Canio has officially renounced fascism. Finalmente, the penny's dropped.
Belatedly realised that he's had to compromise like the rest of us....become a boring twat......utter a few perfunctory grunts and drop in the odd cliche......there you go.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I notice that today Di Canio has officially renounced fascism. Finalmente, the penny's dropped.
Belatedly realised that he's had to compromise like the rest of us....become a boring twat......utter a few perfunctory grunts and drop in the odd cliche......there you go.

BUT publicly renouncing something - does that mean he has changed his real belief or is he appeasing what the majority perceive as the right way to behave/express oneself?
For example I might argue with you that black is blue...& then say "no you are right - it's black". Then talk to my mate "I had to shut him up - he just wouldn't have it & I couldn't be arsed to carry on with it. It's not important for him to agree with me on this anyway!"