Portsmouth- what on earth (6 Viewers)

the points deduction has not been wiped off ......... it is still there ......... will be deducted if and when Pompey come out of administration. If they dont get out of administration then that will be liquidation


"The club will start on zero points, with the conditions of membership announced at the Board's previous meeting - including a 10-point deduction - not coming into effect unless and until the club exits administration."

As soon as they exit admin they will get -10.

Not sure why the football league constantly bend the rules for them though. Guilt?

mark82 said:

As soon as they exit admin they will get -10.

Not sure why the football league constantly bend the rules for them though. Guilt?

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I mean that in terms of signing players. I wouldn't mind if they were signing no hopers but they are signing some decent players who will demand reasonably high wages for this league.

I don't understand the reason for deferring the 10 point deduction. What does it achieve? Surely the club isn't going to play the whole season in administration, and thus avoid the penalty this year?

Sky Blues said:

I don't understand the reason for deferring the 10 point deduction. What does it achieve? Surely the club isn't going to play the whole season in administration, and thus avoid the penalty this year?

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No its a technicality - they will be liquidated unless they get new owners soon.

mark82 said:

I mean that in terms of signing players. I wouldn't mind if they were signing no hopers but they are signing some decent players who will demand reasonably high wages for this league.

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How decent can they be? They are only allowed to offer any new players monthly contracts. What players would accept that if they had offers elsewhere? It looks desperate.

Hi guys im new here nice to meet u all
I was just about to say a similar article but more about them signing izale mcleod and brian howard both have good proven record and can surely produce the goods in league one, supprised we didnt try and offer them trials ?

ccfcway said:

im half expectibng those £180 million lotto winners to announce they are pompy fans and wanna buy the club

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do not think there is a lotto win big enough to cover their debts !!!

Grendel said:

How decent can they be? They are only allowed to offer any new players monthly contracts. What players would accept that if they had offers elsewhere? It looks desperate.

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these aren't players they've picked up today they are players they've had training with them in pre-season. some of these players have ended up there as their old clubs couldn't match the wages pompey were offering (they're all due to sign permanently when the league allow it).

just 48 hours about Appleton was going off on one as apparently he was no longer getting his £4m transfer fund and would have to let these players go and look for cheaper ones, that's not a problem today tho!

in other Pompey news the locals down here are saying that the administrator is expecting the 10 point deduction to never actually be applied and they have more signings lined up for tomorrow (players who aren't already training with them).

while you never want a club to go bust this is really annoying me, being down here in the thick of it you hear all that's going on and half the time I get told the latest I think it's a wind up. all the talk down here is of sign, sign, sign. anyone who suggests they should watch what their spending is getting shot down. it's like they're forgotten everything they've been through again, no wonder this is their third administration with that kind of attitude.

Grendel said:

No its a technicality - they will be liquidated unless they get new owners soon.

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Aye, but I still fail to see why the league bothered to make the change. Was it just to make the league table look prettier until Pompey are saved or liquidated & ejected? To save the newspapers printing an asterix? I'm only wondering because where Pompey is involved there always seems to be some kind of wangle going on.

chiefdave said:

in other Pompey news the locals down here are saying that the administrator is expecting the 10 point deduction to never actually be applied and they have more signings lined up for tomorrow (players who aren't already training with them).

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Do they say why the administrator is expecting that deduction to not be applied?

Sky Blues said:

Aye, but I still fail to see why the league bothered to make the change. Was it just to make the league table look prettier until Pompey are saved or liquidated & ejected? To save the newspapers printing an asterix? I'm only wondering because where Pompey is involved there always seems to be some kind of wangle going on.

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I think its just a bit of pointless bureaucracy from the League. As I understand it the penalty is on leaving admin, therefore they cant apply it till they actually do.

coundonskyblue said:

I think its just a bit of pointless bureaucracy from the League. As I understand it the penalty is on leaving admin, therefore they cant apply it till they actually do.

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That's how I understand it, it beggars belief that there's currently no punishment in place as there allowed to sign good players on a decent whack albeit on months contracts So where's the incentive to exit admin? Why does the embargo allow this?? Also raises the question of why we didn't sign players such as Collins on a month contract whilst awaiting the embargo to be lifted!?

pompey

Pompey have just signed 10 players in 24 hours

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11719/7996791/

Portsmouth are now beating us on amount of transfers :O

some of them are pretty decent as well. wouldn't mind getting a couple of them once there 1 month deals are over.

The untouchable Michael Appleton weaves his magic once more.

Obita to Pompey

Looks like Pompey will add him to the squad they are assembling. Rumours on Pompey sites.
Baffling how the FL can allow this.

They have worked with the Administrator and cut costs/released people. They have to be given opportunity to compete or the league may as well fold them. The players they are signing are on monthly deals. This is to give the fans a chance to purchase the club.

Would it not have been better to restrict the amount they can spend so that they can only afford to pay kids and non-league level wages?
Why should they be allowed to spend decent money when they owe so much? Make them field kids and Div 6 types.

I can't see why they aren't forced to field kids? What is the point in having rules like Embargos as punishment if they aren't enforced?

Nonleagueherewecome said:

Hey, who moved this?! It's totally related to CCFC, and if you look above there are posts about how they didn't resort to youth players like we had to: it's about a club not playing by the rules and spending regardless of their ability to do so, whilst we cut our belts. A side that looked like they'd get away without being relegated last season through these actions.

This season they are more our direct rivals than ever as a so-called "big club" in L1, and they are up to their dodgy financial shenanigans again: we can be confident that if the takeover goes through, they'll have a bigger budget than we do.

Plus by moving the thread, nobody will read it now and we'll never get to 100 pages!

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I can't tell you how furious I am. I almost broke a nail shaking my fist at the screen.


:slap: MOVE IT BACK :slap:

I totally agree with you Nick. Someone needs a solid kick up the backside about this. No point having an inbargo if you can still get players.

If we'd exploited the system like this we could have had a load of the summer signings we missed out on...it just sticks in the craw...

Thanks for agreeing with my point, Nick... Thanks for ignoring it Richie.

Sky Blues said:

Do they say why the administrator is expecting that deduction to not be applied?

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the points deduction was only ever due to be applied when they came out of admin (that's a technicallity) but since the league confirmed that at their meeting yesterday everyone seems to be taking it as a sign it will never be applied.

the arguement from the administrator is that the previous CVA (from their 2nd admin on which not a penny has been paid) was being looked after by a solitcitor or accountant (can't remember the exact details) who accpeted the new CVA on behalf of everyone owed money in the old one. The league are saying the people owed money by the old CVA haven't been consulted and that is a breach of their rules and therefore a points deduction. I think the league are having to work round the rules as they don't really have anything in place for this kind of situation.

skybluegod said:

Pompey have just signed 10 players in 24 hours

Portsmouth are now beating us on amount of transfers :O

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Appleton expecting to sign another 7 today including "a couple who will surprise people", they've all surprised me, I'm amazed they're being allowed to sign anyone!

Wonder if anyone from HMRC has seen this quote from Appleton today regarding their new signings, this is what he said to the administrator "do me a favour, discard bonuses, NI, all those things you do in a normal budget"

rswxite said:

Why does the embargo allow this?? Also raises the question of why we didn't sign players such as Collins on a month contract whilst awaiting the embargo to be lifted!?

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As I understand it Appleton is playing the same card as last year and saying his youth players don't count and therefore he gets special expemption from the embargo to make signings to put out a side.

This ignores the fact that the team he put out in the cup didn't do too badly, 3-0 defeat but 2 of those goals were late in the game when Pompey were pushing up and one was a total defensive clanger.

Also ignores the option of using former players, a lot of them (people like David James) have said they will play for free.

this is going to be a long one but can someone who's better with finance than me look at these figures and tell me if there's any chance of it adding up:

£8m - The agreements to former players to cancel their contracts, the trust are now saying these are valid and they will only pay £2m on the basis that those deals were agreed with Chanrai but surely they were agreed with the administrator so any new owner would have to honour them?

£2m - rumoured amount of football creditor claims (Kanu and 3 others), could be more though

£2.75m - 'war chest', apparently Chanrai had promised £4m but the trust are reducing that to £2.75m. Saying that all the players currently signing are the ones Appleton was moaning he wouldn't be able to afford if the budget was less that £4m.

£8m - to 'buy' Fratton Park. Chanrai doesn't own the ground but has a charge over it. He is said to want £8m (he is owed £18m by the club), it has been valued at £7.5m (not clear if that's as a football ground or not, value may rise if there's no club / ground) the trust are offering £2.75m and claim that Birch can force Chanrai to accept this through the courts (no mention of who will pay the cost of that)

£1.8m - cost of admin so far, this is going up by the day.

£1.16m - money owed to creditors through latest CVA, debt was believed to be £58m and they offered 2p in the £

That adds up to £23.71m. That's before ongoing costs of staffing, running the club etc

To cover that we have the following

£1m - major donors, not clear if this is already in the bank or not

£2m - supporter pledges, you only have to put down £100 of the £1K pledge so that's £20K in the bank.

£3m - cash in the bank supposedly, this must mean a parachute payment has been made

£8m - further parachute payment, assuming the £3m in the bank is from a PP

That's £14m assuming every pledge comes through. Turnover will need to be added to that but thats a shortfall of £9.71m, you can't count the council loan for 2 reasons, it's not likely to happen (league have refused to guarantee it which was one of the conditions) and it was supposed to be short term while the pledges were being collected so you can't count pledges and the loan.

To me that means if they can convince those players that have left to take 25% of what they were offered, can convince Chanrai to let them have the ground for a fraction of its value and not incur any more admin charges and every pledge comes through they are just about at zero but as they don't seem to be budgeting to break even looking at the players they're bringing in who will cover the new debts? Surely there's not a realistic chance of the trust taking control in which case how can they retain their golden share. We were being told if we didn't get the accounts in before the last league meeting we could be kicked out, doesn't seem very consistent.

There's also a divide growing between the trust and the fans, when you look at it they've only had 2000 fans pledge, pretty poor for the supposed best fans in the county. A lot of those that have pledged are now questioning why they still haven't seen a business plan or budget. There's also concern as the initial trust communications gave the impression that anyone who pledged would have a share in Pompey. The language has now been changed and it's now described as a donation to the trust to allow them to buy the club. People are raising concerns that the people being put in the top positions are simply those who have donated the most and they seem to want to use fans money to fund them buying the club and becoming the shareholders.

These are only one month deals which doesn't look good for Portsmouth. Either they will have someone save them or will go bust by the look of it in the near future

Can't shake the feeling that Pompey will wriggle out of their obligations and the consequences of their appalling behaviour yet again.
The FL seem to bend every rule to keep them competitive.
They will pack Fratton Park tomorrow, sneak a win against Bournemouth. On the back of this bounce fans will pledge cash to the fans trust buy out. They'll come out of admin and the FL will waive the -10 points and they'll boss the league and get promoted.
Hope I'm wrong but they seem Teflon coated.

This is an utter joke, the FA hould hang their head in shame and take off the pompey glasses, they have let down the 23 other teams by giving them skates special dispensation, :jerkit:

Lets be clear - this is theft of our money - HMRC taxes - and therefore they should be punished by the full force of the law. Football seems to be immune from the real world sometimes. If I didn't pay income tax and then struck a deal at 2p in £ I would be laughted out of court - have all my assets sold and basically thrown out on the street. Why arn't Portsmouth being treated the same way? Tough on the fans but they could do a Wimbledon and start again - real fans would do that. It would be slow and it would be painful but perfectly possible. Time for football to get tough and refuse outright to do business with them.

So here are the quality Portsmouth signings.

chiefdave said:

these aren't players they've picked up today they are players they've had training with them in pre-season. some of these players have ended up there as their old clubs couldn't match the wages pompey were offering

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Which players and which players would you want?

Jack Compton - spent most of his "career" at Weston Super Mare and Falkirk
John Harley - now in his 30's released by Notts County, rejected by Australia League teams and Rotheram
Luke Rodgers a striker for Yeovil, Notts County and Boston Red Socks contract terminated at Lillestrom
Kieren Dijalli - Crystal Palace reject ended up at AFC Wimbledon then contract terminated
Mustapha Dumbaya - winger who played one season for Doncaster with no goals and is 25 having previously played for Potters Bar Town
Liam Walker - seems to play for Gibralter
Izale McCloud - has some pedigree when at MK Dons but has been at Barnet for 2 seasons and they did not offer him a contract in May
Brian Howard - Seems the best of the bunch as Reading paid half a million 3 years ago but was released by them in June having been loaned to Milwall last season.
Lee Willamson - seems an odd one having been a regular in Sheffield Uniteds team but I would guess given his medical condition his contract offer was a reduced one.

So tell me is this a promotion chasing team? Would we rather these players and the youth team?

Be serious.

I would take Howard, tip of the diamond goal scoring midfielder

I always thought a club had to give the FL assurances that they could fulfill the seasons fixture list. How are Pompey able to do that at the minute?

Would maybe take Izale McLeod as a 4th striker. Howard maybe but probably not ahead of Fleck. It's a team capable of competing though.

It's a squad of players who might compete, but to make a team out of them might take a few weeks. A bit problematic when they are on 1 month contracts.

Pompey will get their -10 deduction at some point anyway, if they are hovering around the bottom 8-10 teams and it comes half way through the season it could kill them off.

oakey said:

Looks like Pompey will add him to the squad they are assembling. Rumours on Pompey sites.
Baffling how the FL can allow this.

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General image is important for English football, the FL can't have big clubs (for this level) going out of business. English football is the land of hope and glory.

In Italy Pompey (and us, plus others) would have been bombed down to Serie D several years ago, because they go by strict financial laws and have no problem in terms of image. It's already poor, so makes no difference.