Praise to Thorn (2 Viewers)

Grendel · Aug 24, 2012

craigSKYBLUE said:
Your basing this assumption off the back of him managing the richest or one of the richest clubs in the world.but let's forget the first few years of his reign when united were poo and people...just like our lot wanted his head

No its basing it off the positive factors ferguson brings. He brings engagement, respect he commands attention. His very presence will engender the dressing room.

This is before we even discuss things like tactics, acumen, touch line motivation, team selection, scrutiny of opposition.

Frankly nonsense comparisons like this make is a laughing stock and even discussing the relative merits of thorn versus ferguson is an insult to the great manager.

You are comparing statistically one of the best to the very worst.

craigSKYBLUE · Aug 24, 2012

Marty said:
Hmmmm........ really?

Oh OK then joint 4th .blow me

Grendel · Aug 24, 2012

craigSKYBLUE said:
why the mmmmmmmm

We scored 2 minutes later so no we wouldn't.

Marty · Aug 24, 2012

craigSKYBLUE said:
why the mmmmmmmm

It would have changed the course of the future, simply saying that having a goal disallowed at 0-0 (I think) would then have lead to a 2-1 win would be wrong.

Colonel Mustard · Aug 24, 2012

craigSKYBLUE said:
If that Malaga goal v sheff utd was given (as it was a goal) we would have won and be sitting pretty in the top 6.fact is that people on here would have a different approach.the fact we didn't win is not down to thorn..the fact we have 2 draws and thorn has a ZERO win ratio in league one is because of an error by the officials

Results are the byproduct of performance. I can honestly say that the results in the first few league games do not matter if the team is performing well. But look at the stats from the first two games:

Possession: outmatched by the opposition both games
Corners: 11 (opposition) v 6 (City)
Goal attempts: 25 (opposition) v 13 (City)

Isolated, it means nothing. But coming on the back of Thorn's team last year? It has been painfully obvious since October of last year that Thorn is a limited manager - he practically threw his hands up in his post-match interviews. Give me a shake when things change.

ClarrieB · Aug 24, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
I pity you...

zzzzz - none one of your better posts MMM

craigSKYBLUE · Aug 24, 2012

Grendel said:
No its basing it off the positive factors ferguson brings. He brings engagement, respect he commands attention. His very presence will engender the dressing room.

This is before we even discuss things like tactics, acumen, touch line motivation, team selection, scrutiny of opposition.

Frankly nonsense comparisons like this make is a laughing stock and even discussing the relative merits of thorn versus ferguson is an insult to the great manager.

You are comparing statistically one of the best to the very worst.

You have just based a whole post stating his successes .I'm talking about before he succeeded and people wanted him out..you really must stop stating the obvious as I know now that fergie is a genius blah blah..but please reply to my point..before success there were a few crap years for united

Colonel Mustard · Aug 24, 2012

Grendel said:
You are comparing statistically one of the best to the very worst.

It's also worth noting that the first couple of seasons under Fergie were an improvement - 21st to 11th in 86-87, then second place in 87-88. At least Fergie had something to point to when times got rough.

craigSKYBLUE · Aug 24, 2012

Colonel Mustard said:
Results are the byproduct of performance. I can honestly say that the results in the first few league games do not matter if the team is performing well. But look at the stats from the first two games:

Possession: outmatched by the opposition both games
Corners: 11 (opposition) v 6 (City)
Goal attempts: 25 (opposition) v 13 (City)

Isolated, it means nothing. But coming on the back of Thorn's team last year? It has been painfully obvious since October of last year that Thorn is a limited manager - he practically threw his hands up in his post-match interviews. Give me a shake when things change.

If we played badly and won would that be bad

ClarrieB · Aug 24, 2012

craigSKYBLUE said:
You have just based a whole post stating his successes .I'm talking about before he succeeded and people wanted him out..you really must stop stating the obvious as I know now that fergie is a genius blah blah..but please reply to my point..before success there were a few crap years for united

You just don't realise what you are implying - You stated categorically that Fergie couldn't have done better than Thorn - in your last post you state you 'now know fergie is a genius' - which either suggests that you have changed your mind about Thorn or you believe Thorn to be equivalent to Fergie.

craigSKYBLUE · Aug 24, 2012

Colonel Mustard said:
It's also worth noting that the first couple of seasons under Fergie were an improvement - 21st to 11th in 86-87, then second place in 87-88. At least Fergie had something to point to when times got rough.

and he also had and still has a very large transfer budget.

craigSKYBLUE · Aug 24, 2012

Marty said:
It would have changed the course of the future, simply saying that having a goal disallowed at 0-0 (I think) would then have lead to a 2-1 win would be wrong.

just picky really isn't it

ccfcway · Aug 24, 2012

craigSKYBLUE said:
If that Malaga goal v sheff utd was given (as it was a goal) we would have won and be sitting pretty in the top 6.fact is that people on here would have a different approach.the fact we didn't win is not down to thorn..the fact we have 2 draws and thorn has a ZERO win ratio in league one is because of an error by the officials

yer, he'd nearly be at 24% win ration then !

Colonel Mustard · Aug 24, 2012

craigSKYBLUE said:
If we played badly and won would that be bad

It wouldn't be encouraging in the least.

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 24, 2012

Grendel said:
No its basing it off the positive factors ferguson brings. He brings engagement, respect he commands attention. His very presence will engender the dressing room.

This is before we even discuss things like tactics, acumen, touch line motivation, team selection, scrutiny of opposition.

Frankly nonsense comparisons like this make is a laughing stock and even discussing the relative merits of thorn versus ferguson is an insult to the great manager.

You are comparing statistically one of the best to the very worst.

I don't know why the original poster used Fergie as an example...

BUT, what I can say, any manager we could AFFORD, would not have kept us up. Period.

On the whole 9 points point, had Pompey not gone into admin, we'd been relegated weeks before we did.

Also, I see Donny don't want their manager gone, despite him not being able to keep them up, because of constraints that made that nearly impossible! Selling top goalscorer (like we did).

Colonel Mustard · Aug 24, 2012

craigSKYBLUE said:
and he also had and still has a very large transfer budget.

Maybe so, in which case the comparison with Thorn is increasingly ludicrous, yes?

ccfcway · Aug 24, 2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Coventry_City_F.C._managers

Wiki lists him as the least successful manager in our history

craigSKYBLUE · Aug 24, 2012

ClarrieB said:
You just don't realise what you are implying - You stated categorically that Fergie couldn't have done better than Thorn - in your last post you state you 'now know fergie is a genius' - which either suggests that you have changed your mind about Thorn or you believe Thorn to be equivalent to Fergie.

OK.I'm categorically saying that I don't believe any manager would've saved us last season..Jesus are people really this picky on this forum.I'm just stating that fergie although a great man ..has always had the tools to do well..thorn hasnt

ccfcway · Aug 24, 2012

craigSKYBLUE said:
OK.I'm categorically saying that I don't believe any manager would've saved us last season..Jesus are people really this picky on this forum.I'm just stating that fergie although a great man ..has always had the tools to do well..thorn hasnt

I dont believe that at all, sorry pal

ClarrieB · Aug 24, 2012

craigSKYBLUE said:
OK.I'm categorically saying that I don't believe any manager would've saved us last season..Jesus are people really this picky on this forum.I'm just stating that fergie although a great man ..has always had the tools to do well..thorn hasnt

yes, and I am disputing this on the basis that it is plainly ridiculous

Grendel · Aug 24, 2012

Colonel Mustard said:
It's also worth noting that the first couple of seasons under Fergie were an improvement - 21st to 11th in 86-87, then second place in 87-88. At least Fergie had something to point to when times got rough.

Beat me to it. There is no comparison.

craigSKYBLUE · Aug 24, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
I don't know why the original poster used Fergie as an example...

BUT, what I can say, any manager we could AFFORD, would not have kept us up. Period.

On the whole 9 points point, had Pompey not gone into admin, we'd been relegated weeks before we did.

Also, I see Donny don't want their manager gone, despite him not being able to keep them up, because of constraints that made that nearly impossible! Selling top goalscorer (like we did).

I used fergie not as a factual reference.its just a saying..you know if the titanic was sky blue and all that(people would still trudge on about factual evidence as to why it still would've sunk)but yes you get my point..the only person that gets my point intact...sigh

Marty · Aug 24, 2012

craigSKYBLUE said:
just picky really isn't it

Not really.... The smallest changes can have huge differences in results. We could have gone on to win 4-0 or we could have lost 3-1.

ccfcway · Aug 24, 2012

Marty said:
Not really.... The smallest changes can have huge differences in results. We could have gone on to win 4-0 or we could have lost 3-1.

agreed..

If only Thorn made those changes when everyone else in the ground could see it !

ClarrieB · Aug 24, 2012

craigSKYBLUE said:
I used fergie not as a factual reference.its just a saying..you know if the titanic was sky blue and all that(people would still trudge on about factual evidence as to why it still would've sunk)but yes you get my point..the only person that gets my point intact...sigh

you've gotta love those non-factual reference sayings - always good to make a point with:claping hands:

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 24, 2012

craigSKYBLUE said:
I used fergie not as a factual reference.its just a saying..you know if the titanic was sky blue and all that(people would still trudge on about factual evidence as to why it still would've sunk)but yes you get my point..the only person that gets my point intact...sigh

I understand that... Just posters like Grendal will jump on it, like they have done, taking the example too seriously and literally, just to enhance their argument.

craigSKYBLUE · Aug 24, 2012

I hope he gets top 6.I fully expect every one of you bashers to be singing his praises.

Colonel Mustard · Aug 24, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
I understand that... Just posters like Grendal will jump on it, like they have done, taking the example too seriously and literally, just to enhance their argument.

It was a mad comparison and deserved to be jumped upon.

ClarrieB · Aug 24, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
I don't know why the original poster used Fergie as an example...

BUT, what I can say, any manager we could AFFORD, would not have kept us up. Period.

On the whole 9 points point, had Pompey not gone into admin, we'd been relegated weeks before we did.

Also, I see Donny don't want their manager gone, despite him not being able to keep them up, because of constraints that made that nearly impossible! Selling top goalscorer (like we did).

are you suggesting we wouldn't have been able to afford a qualified manager - I don't buy that either

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 24, 2012

ccfcway said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Coventry_City_F.C._managers

Wiki lists him as the least successful manager in our history

Since when has wiki been a valid source!? Oh, until you want to use it!

If 'the other side' had used it, for their argument, you would've been all over it!

Colonel Mustard · Aug 24, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Since when has wiki been a valid source!? Oh, until you want to use it! If 'the other side' had used it, for their argument, you would've been all over it!

Exactly what statistic are you disputing?

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 24, 2012

ClarrieB said:
are you suggesting we wouldn't have been able to afford a qualified manager - I don't buy that either

I never said that, did I! I said whoever we could afford, whether that be, Abott, Tisdale, Howe etc. We wouldn't have stayed up.

Before you say "oh they would've because the clueless one is sh!t", you don't know that for a fact.

ClarrieB · Aug 24, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Since when has wiki been a valid source!? Oh, until you want to use it!

If 'the other side' had used it, for their argument, you would've been all over it!

yes yes, your right, the only valid source is the telegraph where they print only truth

craigSKYBLUE · Aug 24, 2012

Colonel Mustard said:
It was a mad comparison and deserved to be jumped upon.

I said fergie couldn't keep us up...I never once said Andy thorn is just as good a manager..you are making that up to fuel a pointless row

Grendel · Aug 24, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
I understand that... Just posters like Grendal will jump on it, like they have done, taking the example too seriously and literally, just to enhance their argument.

I along with others rightly jumped on it it was ludicrous. The only serious literal fact we know is last season we kept with the struggling manager rather than sack him and we got relegated.

Those are facts. Worst managerial record in football history another fact. 2 away wins as a manager.

All facts. Now show me some facts to prove me wrong. Show me the positive statistics that show he is indeed a good football manager.

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