Pro-SISU / Anti-SISU (16 Viewers)

Grendel · Jan 9, 2013

dongonzalos said:
All goes into profits for ACL as a company?

Providing the business is structured properly yes. Of they can't make profit do what Doncaster council have done and let the club run the ground.

I don't see what your point is.

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 9, 2013

Originally Posted by Sky Blue Kid

Hey Grendel....Selective deafness?.......Figures..Not "Estimated facts"

I'd estimate you have an IQ below 60 and I'm pretty certain that's a fact.

You live on, and believe in "Estimated Facts" yet accuse me of an IQ of below 60. Lmfao!
For all your big words and "Legal speak"....You're as thick as shit pal.:jerkit:

Godiva · Jan 9, 2013

dongonzalos said:
And they put this profit in their own pockets?

In a way yes. The profit increases the value of the company and the value of their shares.

skybluesteve76 · Jan 9, 2013

I'm pro CCFC! As long as we've got a decent team with a chance of getting out of this league I'm happy. I couldn't care less about the off field stuff, because none of us know the real facts about what's going on behind the scenes! I'd certainly never sacrifice my love for watching CCFC just because of who our owners may or may not be,unlike some idiots on here!

oldskyblue58 · Jan 9, 2013

Godiva said:
In a way yes. The profit increases the value of the company and the value of their shares.

as does the loss caused by having a long term non paying tenant or the loss to value caused by the reduction of the amount payable under the lease. Always two sides to this.

oldskyblue58 · Jan 9, 2013

mark82 said:
Plus whatever they pocket from the booze and food on match days.

ACL do not receive this directly, they receive a share of the profits (ie after deduction of all costs) from the joint venture with Compass.

oldskyblue58 · Jan 9, 2013

Grendel said:
Providing the business is structured properly yes.

maybe we should consider whether ACL can change their structure and finances so it does work, might have an effect on the future of CCFC or any rent that will be settled on :thinking about:

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 9, 2013

As long as you're happy, that's all that matters:facepalm:

Godiva · Jan 9, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
maybe we should consider whether ACL can change their structure and finances so it does work, might have an effect on the future of CCFC or any rent that will be settled on :thinking about:

From a purely business perspective:
If ACL can adjust and improve their business model and make a profit without any rent received from ccfc, then they should really issue the winding up petition.

In reality though:
If improving their business model only leave them with a small profit that may be at risk if circumstances changes ever so slightly, then at least the council should discuss if it is worth sacrificing the local football club to save ACL ... a business administration company.
Oh well, they should discuss it anyway!

mark82 · Jan 9, 2013

Godiva said:
From a purely business perspective:
If ACL can adjust and improve their business model and make a profit without any rent received from ccfc, then they should really issue the winding up petition.

In reality though:
If improving their business model only leave them with a small profit that may be at risk if circumstances changes ever so slightly, then at least the council should discuss if it is worth sacrificing the local football club to save ACL ... a business administration company.
Oh well, they should discuss it anyway!

There are other things that would also need to be considered if it were not used as a football stadium like would Ricoh still be happy to sponsor if their name wasn't appearing on TV every other Saturday?

skyblueman · Jan 9, 2013

mark82 said:
There are other things that would also need to be considered if it were not used as a football stadium like would Ricoh still be happy to sponsor if their name wasn't appearing on TV every other Saturday?

Fair point but I doubt Ricoh feel they are getting any value out of this with us in L1

dongonzalos · Jan 9, 2013

Godiva said:
In a way yes. The profit increases the value of the company and the value of their shares.

In a way? so not your traditional fat cats, pigs in trough scenario, Grendal has painted. With ACL getting fat off the back of SISU's hard work?

dongonzalos · Jan 9, 2013

mark82 said:
There are other things that would also need to be considered if it were not used as a football stadium like would Ricoh still be happy to sponsor if their name wasn't appearing on TV every other Saturday?

At 1:30 am on bbc1?

If they did come up with an excellent non footballing marketing plan then I don't think in the current climate this would be a massive factor.

If the Ricoh deal ended tomorrow the current plight of the football club would not have investors flocking!

I would guess for ACL it is the Higgs and council not wanting to be blamed for attempting to close the football club.

They are going to have to do a lot if deals with SISU in the future. I think now they need to draw a line on how far they will be pushed.

This season and the chance of promotion is so critical to SISU.

SISU say they can afford the rent.

For CCFC we are talking an extra 16k a month if they agree 400k.

SISU will not allow the winding up order to go through.

I want this matter resolved if ACL can't be solvent at less than 400k the only way I see it getting resolved us if they issue the winding up order and fans of the club who want this to end who want stability off field should come out showing support and urging SISU to accept 400k.

The promotion push can carry on. ACL exist.
SISU can triumphantly claim they got the rent down by 66%.

SISU understand their is a line that will be drawn and future negotiations will not be so drawn out

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 9, 2013

What did "Ricoh" think of the 4 weeks that the stadium was re-named "The City of Coventry Stadium"
This being the biggest "TV Audience" Coventry has ever known?

oldskyblue58 · Jan 9, 2013

Was just throwing the thoughts out there Godiva

I dont think anyone at ACL, Council or Charity want to see CCFC get wound up .......

I dont think anyone at ACL, Council or Charity want to see the development of North Coventry fail or lost control of either though.......

The fans see it as pretty black and white ........... the club comes first........ for the stakeholders and the council in particular it is not so clear cut.

At the moment the club is doing well on the pitch....... first time in many years. But that is in the 3rd division on the back of one of the biggest budgets in L1 - should we not expect even demand that ? At the moment it would seem the club is addressing its finances ....... again first time in many years it could be said, we should demand that also shouldnt we ?........... but it is on the back of 4+ years of self inflicted losses and debt ...... when SISU came in they took over net debt £9m and have increased that debt to well over £40m....... not because of GR, MM, BR etc but because of what they SISU have done, not done, allowed, not allowed to happen. I applaud that they are now getting to grips with the finances (or we are led to believe that at least, will wait till i see the accounts before I decide for certain) but hells teeth they are largely dealing with a situation created by them or the people they appointed. Right now they are fortunate they have MR and that the club is performing better on the pitch ....... the situation could have been so much worse.

Bottom line is that the solutions have been there for years, the reductions in costs could have been addressed earlier, a strong partnership could have been forged at the Ricoh at much lower cost, a way forward together could have been planned achieved. There have been mistakes on both sides ........ this current situation will change everything and I am not sure it is going to be ACL giving in .......... that doesnt have to mean that the future is bleak for CCFC but it might not be the one fans are looking for

TrueSkyBlueLiam · Jan 9, 2013

How can ANYONE be Pro-SISU. What have SISU done for us? Plunge us into more debt, refuse to stump up cash for great players, refuse to pay Arena rent. Because of them we missed out on Jordan Henderson and Andy Carroll for rock-bottom prices when they were up and coming. We could have got to the PL if they weren't so stubborn. They've done nothing but f**k this club up. If i saw a member of SISU in the street i'd punch their f**king lights out for what they're done to our once great club

Monkeyface · Jan 9, 2013

BackRoomRummermill said:
Imapartial of SISU , because i do not know alll the facts and I do not pretend I do

And you're not alone, very few people know the facts, or at least behind closed doors facts. This is why we have the situation we have, where usually very loyal fans are turning against each other, claiming to understand the situation better than the next man. When really they are guessing like the rest of us. Its a kind of accidental 'divide and rule' situation, however is screwing the club over, and somebody invariably is, in my opinion, is safe in the knowledge that a loyal Sky Blue is defending their corner.

If we really want answers, something like a strong Supporters group is the only way forward. So which ever side you're looking from, making the Sky Blue Trust as big and organised as possible is essential.

Grendel · Jan 9, 2013

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:
How can ANYONE be Pro-SISU. What have SISU done for us? Plunge us into more debt, refuse to stump up cash for great players, refuse to pay Arena rent. Because of them we missed out on Jordan Henderson and Andy Carroll for rock-bottom prices when they were up and coming. We could have got to the PL if they weren't so stubborn. They've done nothing but f**k this club up. If i saw a member of SISU in the street i'd punch their f**king lights out for what they're done to our once great club

There is no evidence we were ever signing those players.

lordsummerisle · Jan 9, 2013

hill83 said:
It's already been confirmed that I'm a SISU rent boy, I'm yet to find out what that actually entails, but it sounds interesting.

Think it means that they'll fuck you, but then not pay for it?

torchomatic · Jan 9, 2013

Remind me. Is that the "once great" club who were homeless, because we'd sold, then rented back a stadium we'd owned to move to a ground we didn't. Even though we did have the money and then suddenly we didn't have the money, so we had to get the local council to help us out. A "once great" club who were relegated to the second tier of football with debts of £60M. That "once great" club?

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:
How can ANYONE be Pro-SISU. What have SISU done for us? Plunge us into more debt, refuse to stump up cash for great players, refuse to pay Arena rent. Because of them we missed out on Jordan Henderson and Andy Carroll for rock-bottom prices when they were up and coming. We could have got to the PL if they weren't so stubborn. They've done nothing but f**k this club up. If i saw a member of SISU in the street i'd punch their f**king lights out for what they're done to our once great club

torchomatic · Jan 9, 2013

I'm one as well. All I will say is that we are currently "in negotations" regarding my fee although no face-to-face meetings are planned. They are winding me up though or should I be doing that to them? Can't work that one out.

lordsummerisle said:
Think it means that they'll fuck you, but then not pay for it?

Godiva · Jan 9, 2013

torchomatic said:
I'm one as well. All I will say is that we are currently "in negotations" regarding my fee although no face-to-face meetings are planned. They are winding me up though or should I be doing that to them? Can't work that one out.

You'll end up in court ....

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 9, 2013

Ray Ranson made that claim....Never heard from SISU denying it..Have you?

Grendel · Jan 9, 2013

Sky Blue Kid said:
Ray Ranson made that claim....Never heard from SISU denying it..Have you?

What the same ray ranson who claimed Hussey was better than fox?

crowsnest · Jan 9, 2013

torchomatic said:
Remind me. Is that the "once great" club who were homeless, because we'd sold, then rented back a stadium we'd owned to move to a ground we didn't. Even though we did have the money and then suddenly we didn't have the money, so we had to get the local council to help us out. A "once great" club who were relegated to the second tier of football with debts of £60M. That "once great" club?

CCFC had the funding in place in the form of a £21m loan from the bank with builders Birse ready to start building - then Leicester went bust leaving the bank and stadium builders Birse with big debts, so the bank and builders pulled out of the project.

lordsummerisle · Jan 9, 2013

Sky Blue Kid said:
Ray Ranson made that claim....Never heard from SISU denying it..Have you?

Debt free Ranson?

ajsccfc · Jan 9, 2013

Ranson's claims seemed to come after he'd left, in what looked like a face-saving masterclass. 'If it was up to me we'd be Champions of Europe by now guys'

TrueSkyBlueLiam · Jan 9, 2013

Grendel said:
There is no evidence we were ever signing those players.

Yes there is. Sunderland and Newcastle both said they offered to sell Carroll and Henderson to us for 1M each. I know we couldnt have known how good they;d be but we knew they had potential and Henderson did great on loan but we missed out cus those morons who call themselves owners refused to use their wallet for a change.

lordsummerisle · Jan 9, 2013

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:
Yes there is. Sunderland and Newcastle both said they offered to sell Carroll and Henderson to us for 1M each.

No they haven't.

TrueSkyBlueLiam · Jan 9, 2013

torchomatic said:
Remind me. Is that the "once great" club who were homeless, because we'd sold, then rented back a stadium we'd owned to move to a ground we didn't. Even though we did have the money and then suddenly we didn't have the money, so we had to get the local council to help us out. A "once great" club who were relegated to the second tier of football with debts of £60M. That "once great" club?

Some fan you are. May i remind you of our many years int he Premier League? Our FA Cup win. We WERE great. Manchester United have like 10 times our debt and they're not even blinking at it. We shouldnt have left Highfield Road and im not saying that we didnt get ourselves into a lot of mess before SISU came along, but they made it a hell of a lot worse. They're supposed to help us and get us out of this mess, but they've done the opposite

TrueSkyBlueLiam · Jan 9, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
No they haven't.

I'm pretty sure a couple of years ago they said that

lordsummerisle · Jan 9, 2013

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:
I'm pretty sure a couple of years ago they said that

I'm absolutely certain they didn't.

TrueSkyBlueLiam · Jan 9, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
I'm absolutely certain they didn't.

Well i remember seeing it on Sky Sports News and as far as im concerned, its its on Sky Sports News, its real. I didnt even believe Van Persie going to United until i saw it on there lol

ajsccfc · Jan 9, 2013

There's a vast difference between Man Utd's financial situation and ours. The word 'debt' is about the only similarity.

lordsummerisle · Jan 9, 2013

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:
Well i remember seeing it on Sky Sports News and as far as im concerned, its its on Sky Sports News, its real. I didnt even believe Van Persie going to United until i saw it on there lol

Never been anything on it apart from Ranson, and why on earth would Sky Sports News a few years after the event get quotes from Newcastle and Sunderland that we'd been offered Carrol and Henderson for £1million?

There's slow news days and slow news days, but, well, fucking hell.

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