Pro-SISU / Anti-SISU (4 Viewers)

Sky Blue Kid said:

Originally Posted by Sky Blue Kid

Ray Ranson made that claim....Never heard from SISU denying it..Have you?



What the same ray ranson who claimed Hussey was better than fox?


I don't know about you...but isn't Ray Ranson(A Ex-Pro Footballer) allowed to have his own opinion now Grendel?
Furthermore...Making a claim to be able to buy two young, up and coming players for very little money, at that time, has got sweet fa to do with a "Opinion"....Ray Ranson said this, and there has never been any DENIAL from SISU.
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Ray Ranson is a c**t who ripped off the club to fill his own pockets.

Sky Blue Kid said:

Ray Ranson said this, and there has never been any DENIAL from SISU.

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If you think that anything not denied is automatically the truth, the libel and slander laws need a serious rewrite.

Anyways, if they spent all their time having to confirm or deny every little thing said about them, they wouldn't have the time to spend maintaining their secret mountain lair, plotting our demise or developing that new strain of anthrax.

ajsccfc said:

If you think that anything not denied is automatically the truth, the libel and slander laws need a serious rewrite.

Anyways, if they spent all their time having to confirm or deny every little thing said about them, they wouldn't have the time to spend maintaining their secret mountain lair, plotting our demise or developing that new strain of anthrax.

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That's right. Seppala can't get enough of the Berghof.

Brighton Sky Blue said:

That's right. Seppala can't get enough of the Berghof.

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Sharks with frickin lasers on their heads don't come cheap either.

oldskyblue58 said:

Was just throwing the thoughts out there Godiva

I dont think anyone at ACL, Council or Charity want to see CCFC get wound up .......

I dont think anyone at ACL, Council or Charity want to see the development of North Coventry fail or lost control of either though.......

The fans see it as pretty black and white ........... the club comes first........ for the stakeholders and the council in particular it is not so clear cut.

At the moment the club is doing well on the pitch....... first time in many years. But that is in the 3rd division on the back of one of the biggest budgets in L1 - should we not expect even demand that ? At the moment it would seem the club is addressing its finances ....... again first time in many years it could be said, we should demand that also shouldnt we ?........... but it is on the back of 4+ years of self inflicted losses and debt ...... when SISU came in they took over net debt £9m and have increased that debt to well over £40m....... not because of GR, MM, BR etc but because of what they SISU have done, not done, allowed, not allowed to happen. I applaud that they are now getting to grips with the finances (or we are led to believe that at least, will wait till i see the accounts before I decide for certain) but hells teeth they are largely dealing with a situation created by them or the people they appointed. Right now they are fortunate they have MR and that the club is performing better on the pitch ....... the situation could have been so much worse.

Bottom line is that the solutions have been there for years, the reductions in costs could have been addressed earlier, a strong partnership could have been forged at the Ricoh at much lower cost, a way forward together could have been planned achieved. There have been mistakes on both sides ........ this current situation will change everything and I am not sure it is going to be ACL giving in .......... that doesnt have to mean that the future is bleak for CCFC but it might not be the one fans are looking for

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There you go again looking to past mistakes ... oh, that's what you do successfully for a living .

I think we should stop using the phrase 'now' when we are talking about their cost reduction efforts. The recent board has addressed the rent issue from day one ... since almost a year ago.

We should also see the sisu ownership as three different venues -
Rel. 1.0 was Ranson/Hoffman/Elliot, Rel 2.0 was Dulieu/Igwe and now Rel. 3.0 is Fischer/Waggot.
They have all been cutting costs but with different intensity and focus. But we need to understand the three different boards have had different objectives. Ransons objective was to gain promotion to PL. KD was supposed to clean up the mess RR left. TF has taken over the task of getting the club to breakeven.

Finally we should recognise that the world today is completely different from five years ago. Back then money was in excess and the mentality was all about spending. Today money are hard to find and the mentality is all about saving.

What was the right thing to do yesterday, may be wrong today ... and that is the pitfall of strategic management.
This is why I detest the blame game. It is counter productive and poisonous in all situations.

Godiva said:

There you go again looking to past mistakes ... oh, that's what you do successfully for a living .

I think we should stop using the phrase 'now' when we are talking about their cost reduction efforts. The recent board has addressed the rent issue from day one ... since almost a year ago.

We should also see the sisu ownership as three different venues -
Rel. 1.0 was Ranson/Hoffman/Elliot, Rel 2.0 was Dulieu/Igwe and now Rel. 3.0 is Fischer/Waggot.
They have all been cutting costs but with different intensity and focus. But we need to understand the three different boards have had different objectives. Ransons objective was to gain promotion to PL. KD was supposed to clean up the mess RR left. TF has taken over the task of getting the club to breakeven.

Finally we should recognise that the world today is completely different from five years ago. Back then money was in excess and the mentality was all about spending. Today money are hard to find and the mentality is all about saving.

What was the right thing to do yesterday, may be wrong today ... and that is the pitfall of strategic management.
This is why I detest the blame game. It is counter productive and poisonous in all situations.

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Yeah its intriguing because people say SISU have done this or that but look at your list of people who have ran the club and the only actual 100% SISU man was Onye who we know they have now dispatched to the Siberian salt mines!

It was Ranson who said that.

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:

I'm pretty sure a couple of years ago they said that

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Maybe they will help get us out of this mess which has been compounded by them but not created by them. They are still here so you cannot say they have/haven't helped until they've gone. They are turning things around in my opinion getting the best manager we've had in years and assembling a useful squad of players.

WOuld I rather have SISU than the bloke who sold us and Highfield Road down the river? Yep, that's some fan I am.

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:

Some fan you are. May i remind you of our many years int he Premier League? Our FA Cup win. We WERE great. Manchester United have like 10 times our debt and they're not even blinking at it. We shouldnt have left Highfield Road and im not saying that we didnt get ourselves into a lot of mess before SISU came along, but they made it a hell of a lot worse. They're supposed to help us and get us out of this mess, but they've done the opposite

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Lordsummerisle....You're entitled to your "Opinion" Ranson was so preoccupied with ripping off CCFC that he GAVE SISU his business worth in excess of £5m...While resigning on two seperate occasions because SISU had no intention of taking the football club forward(Investment on the pitch)...(Bought Dann and Fox for peanuts, then sold them for a vast profit) I wasn't a lover of Ranson, but when things came to light about the "Goings on" behind the scenes I began to warm to him a little.
As for being "Open and Transparent"(SISU)...The only time we hear from them is when they are moaning about being "Ripped off" by ACL! when it's them doing the "Ripping off"

ajsccfc...please refer to previous paragraph in reply to Lordsummerisle.

Godiva said:

What was the right thing to do yesterday, may be wrong today ... and that is the pitfall of strategic management. This is why I detest the blame game. It is counter productive and poisonous in all situations.

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I agree with some of what you offer; yet don't at the same time. Firstly, Fisher's assertion that we need to pay a 'fair League One rent' would have a touch more credibility if he at least acknowledged that the Ricoh wasn't intended to be a third-tier venue. At the time ACL stepped in, it was intended to be a platform from which a once-decent team on it's uppers could return to the top-flight. It was designed, intended and costed as such. And this the basis of ACL's stewardship. Therefore, one has to at least look back to see where the other side's stance has grown from.

Which leads me nicely onto point two - empathy. The understanding of the other's stance during negotiations. ACL have seemingly evidenced this in their rent-reduction offer. I don't see anything from Fisher. And if you laud the stance that hates the 'blame game', then you should decry Fisher discussing ACL's finances in the press. Over to you....

TrueSkyBlueLiam said:

Yes there is. Sunderland and Newcastle both said they offered to sell Carroll and Henderson to us for 1M each. I know we couldnt have known how good they;d be but we knew they had potential and Henderson did great on loan but we missed out cus those morons who call themselves owners refused to use their wallet for a change.

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They never said that. Sbregia at the time said he wasn't for sale. Carroll was never up for sale. Are you "honest" Ray by any chance?

mattylad said:

Yeah its intriguing because people say SISU have done this or that but look at your list of people who have ran the club and the only actual 100% SISU man was Onye who we know they have now dispatched to the Siberian salt mines!

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Yes - what shareholders/owners do is appoint the board and give them their objectives. Then they sack the board when the objectives are not met.
The plans and budgets and overall operation is down to the board and the management they appoint.

But we, the fans, are not really interested in the organisation or the finances - in reality all we want is a sugardaddy who can send more money.

Sky Blue Kid said:

Lordsummerisle....You're entitled to your "Opinion" Ranson was so preoccupied with ripping off CCFC that he GAVE SISU his business worth in excess of £5m...While resigning on two seperate occasions because SISU had no intention of taking the football club forward(Investment on the pitch)...(Bought Dann and Fox for peanuts, then sold them for a vast profit) I wasn't a lover of Ranson, but when things came to light about the "Goings on" behind the scenes I began to warm to him a little.
As for being "Open and Transparent"(SISU)...The only time we hear from them is when they are moaning about being "Ripped off" by ACL! when it's them doing the "Ripping off"

ajsccfc...please refer to previous paragraph in reply to Lordsummerisle.

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He "Gave" Sisu nothing, please read the links on Pro-zone, and other remuneration,interest on "loans" etc in the Financial threads, Information is all there if you're not blinkered.

Wish Ranson had resigned, however never did, wouldn't have been able to continue to take money out of the club then despite mounting losses and poor performance on and off the pitch.

An interview with him a couple of years ago, now either you believe he resigned on "principle" or you don't, either way very economical with the truth, if not with other peoples money.

"TWO years down the line Ray Ranson insists that Coventry City is a club moving forward.

The Sky Blues chairman admits certain players have progressed quicker than the clubs, with the likes of Scott Dann and Danny Fox being lured away from the Ricoh and admits that he faces a battle to keep hold of some of the club’s current stars in January.

But he insists the foundations for long-term success are in place and that he and manager Chris Coleman will turn the club’s fortunes around.

“I am here to make decisions in the best interests of Coventry City for the short, medium and long term,” he said, speaking just short of his second anniversary at the helm. “Short-term thinking only has one outcome, and that’s failure.

“Results are not reflecting all the hard work that we have done but I defy anyone to convince me that the squad of players we have got now, when they are all fit, is not far superior to what we inherited.




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“The biggest thing for me is that I still believe the club is moving forward. The numbers of the squad has reduced and the quality has gone up, as has the value of it, but you only get that with stability, careful planning and by being pro-active.


“I read comments by Danny Fox recently, who was talking about the challenge of playing at a bigger club because, with all due respect to Coventry, it is a mid-table Championship club. That’s where we are at the moment.


“Scott Dann went to Birmingham for five times what he was getting here. Would we have liked to keep hold of them? For sure, and if we had been in the play-offs at the end of last season it could have been a different ball game and they might have said they will give us another year here.




"But we have effectively replaced those players with Chris Hussey and Richard Wood, who will go on to be as good, if not better.”

As for the manager’s part, he said: “Chris signed a three and a half year contract and he will be given that period of time and then we will review it at the end of his contract, or before if necessary.

“We knew what a tough job it was going to be, which is why we went for a young manager who had time on his side, and he fitted the profile of the football club and he ticks all the boxes for us.

"And when we get everyone fit and invest in January, and tweak it again in the summer, Chris should have his squad of players, and hopefully one that is capable of competing at the top end of the Championship next season.”

He added: “You need stability both on and off the pitch and if you don’t you end up with the 34 pros that we ended up with two years ago. All I heard when I first came here was, ‘Don’t sell Michael Mifsud,’.

"We had no intention of selling him and we had one offer for him from Bristol City. Where is he now? I think he is playing for a second division club in Cyprus.


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“This club sold Gary McSheffrey and with the money bought Leon McKenzie, Chris Birchall and Kevin Kyle, two of whom we had to pay their contracts up to leave, so it actually cost us money to get rid of them. On that basis I think we are doing a good job.”


The question about buying back 50 per cent of the Ricoh Arena crops up time and time again, but with an estimated £10 million price tag for a stadium that makes roughly £1 million a year, the figures clearly don’t stack up at the moment. "

Sky Blue Kid said:

ajsccfc...please refer to previous paragraph in reply to Lordsummerisle.

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The previous paragraph shows you selectively choose to believe people when they align with your stance. Ranson was not to be trusted when he was part of the machine, but once he left he's suddenly a bastion of truth because he's telling you what you want to hear? He may be telling the truth, he may be saving face. Nobody here knows.

Which is what he always does. Dodges and ducks direct questions or anything that counters his blinkered view.

ajsccfc said:

The previous paragraph shows you selectively choose to believe people when they align with your stance. Ranson was not to be trusted when he was part of the machine, but once he left he's suddenly a bastion of truth because he's telling you what you want to hear? He may be telling the truth, he may be saving face. Nobody here knows.

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ajsccfc said:

The previous paragraph shows you selectively choose to believe people when they align with your stance. Ranson was not to be trusted when he was part of the machine, but once he left he's suddenly a bastion of truth because he's telling you what you want to hear? He may be telling the truth, he may be saving face. Nobody here knows.

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We do know the "story" appeared in a Trinity Group paper which Hoffman has links with. We do j ow at the time Hoffman had motives to distabilise the owners. We do know ranson and Hoffman were seeing a lot of each other at the time.

torchomatic said:

Which is what he always does. Dodges and ducks direct questions or anything that counters his blinkered view.

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Half the time he makes no sense at all.

He should sponsor the club a pound everytime he does the jerk-it sign. We'd own the Ricoh by now.

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

I agree with some of what you offer; yet don't at the same time. Firstly, Fisher's assertion that we need to pay a 'fair League One rent' would have a touch more credibility if he at least acknowledged that the Ricoh wasn't intended to be a third-tier venue. At the time ACL stepped in, it was intended to be a platform from which a once-decent team on it's uppers could return to the top-flight. It was designed, intended and costed as such. And this the basis of ACL's stewardship. Therefore, one has to at least look back to see where the other side's stance has grown from.

Which leads me nicely onto point two - empathy. The understanding of the other's stance during negotiations. ACL have seemingly evidenced this in their rent-reduction offer. I don't see anything from Fisher. And if you laud the stance that hates the 'blame game', then you should decry Fisher discussing ACL's finances in the press. Over to you....

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You know what - I do think Fisher should have kept his mouth shut about ACL's finances. That was completely out of order.
I also think ACL was out of order announcing they had offered a rent of £400k (forget the fact it was more like £800k) - details of negotiations should never be released until a deal is done!

But so what? There's nothing I/we can do about it.
It doesn't matter much what we say or do on this board, but if the stakeholders keep leaking to the press the atmosphere at the negotiation table will make it impossible to reach an agreement.

Grendel said:

. We do know ranson and Hoffman were seeing a lot of each other at the time.

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Yes apparently Hoffman knew Ray was anybodys for a bottle of Lambrusco, and a Chicken in the basket meal.

The question about buying back 50 per cent of the Ricoh Arena crops up time and time again, but with an estimated £10 million price tag for a stadium that makes roughly £1 million a year, the figures clearly don’t stack up at the moment. "


Too f**king right the figures "Don't stack up". You seem to forget that CCFC are being "Ripped off" to the value of £1.2m per year.(A figure that SISU accepted on takeover) and if invested in the team as they should have done, could well have been playing Premier football right now! on the very same "Rent Agreement"
Then there's those "Take That"..."Jon Bon Jovi"..."Florence and the machine" etc,etc,etc....Then again that's only worth a couple of shillings, isn't it Lordsummerisle?

Moff said:

Yes apparently Hoffman knew Ray was anybodys for a bottle of Lambrusco, and a Chicken in the basket meal.

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I think that's more the taste of their other friend - Mr Coventry.

Are you on drugs?

Sky Blue Kid said:

The question about buying back 50 per cent of the Ricoh Arena crops up time and time again, but with an estimated £10 million price tag for a stadium that makes roughly £1 million a year, the figures clearly don’t stack up at the moment. "


Too f**king right the figures "Don't stack up". You seem to forget that CCFC are being "Ripped off" to the value of £1.2m per year.(A figure that SISU accepted on takeover) and if invested in the team as they should have done, could well have been playing Premier football right now! on the very same "Rent Agreement"
Then there's those "Take That"..."Jon Bon Jovi"..."Florence and the machine" etc,etc,etc....Then again that's only worth a couple of shillings, isn't it Lordsummerisle?

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Sky Blue Kid said:

The question about buying back 50 per cent of the Ricoh Arena crops up time and time again, but with an estimated £10 million price tag for a stadium that makes roughly £1 million a year, the figures clearly don’t stack up at the moment. "


Too f**king right the figures "Don't stack up". You seem to forget that CCFC are being "Ripped off" to the value of £1.2m per year.(A figure that SISU accepted on takeover) and if invested in the team as they should have done, could well have been playing Premier football right now! on the very same "Rent Agreement"
Then there's those "Take That"..."Jon Bon Jovi"..."Florence and the machine" etc,etc,etc....Then again that's only worth a couple of shillings, isn't it Lordsummerisle?

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Hey, I didn't say anything about the stadium, it was a quote from your beloved Ranson!

What I'd give to bump into brian Richardson For creating this mess ! What's happend to our cub is a IS a tradegy and I hold that money grabbing granny bashing con man responsible! And as for the board in charge now your nothing mOre Than overpaid 21st century fortune tellers All we Ever get is empty promises AnD more excuses , if you were that botherd about survival why sell Lucas j last year ? You'll still be giving excuses when we're playing in the memorial park

I can hear his mind whirring from here... get ready for lots of" yeah but, no buts" and :jerkit: signs.

lordsummerisle said:

Hey, I didn't say anything about the stadium, it was a quote from your beloved Ranson!

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Sky Blue Kid said:

The question about buying back 50 per cent of the Ricoh Arena crops up time and time again, but with an estimated £10 million price tag for a stadium that makes roughly £1 million a year, the figures clearly don’t stack up at the moment. "


Too f**king right the figures "Don't stack up". You seem to forget that CCFC are being "Ripped off" to the value of £1.2m per year.(A figure that SISU accepted on takeover) and if invested in the team as they should have done, could well have been playing Premier football right now! on the very same "Rent Agreement"
Then there's those "Take That"..."Jon Bon Jovi"..."Florence and the machine" etc,etc,etc....Then again that's only worth a couple of shillings, isn't it Lordsummerisle?

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Complete gibberish.

The club get no money from concerts! That's the point. Unless of course "honest" Ray has told you otherwise? Perhaps you've been on the phone to him?

torchomatic said:

I can hear his mind whirring from here... get ready for lots of" yeah but, no buts" and :jerkit: signs.

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Imagine he's a bit like that comic strip inThe Beezer I think, which had this bloke being controlled by little fellas in his head pulling levers and things, but always getting into scrapes **.

Wish I could remember what it was called.

**Scrapes is something that people only ever get into in British comics of a certain vintage, never in real life.

In a similar vein I've never heard anyone outside of comics refer to a slap-up dinner.

And just to think, there's QPR in The Premiership - okay struggling - but there with an 18,500 capacity stadium built in 1904, West Brom still at the Hawthorns over 100 years on, Wolves have redeveloped Molineux over their 120 years there into a 30K+ stadium.... and we left a 23.5K stadium we'd been in for over 100 years....... to be where we are now.

I vilify SISU for that which they've done wrong; but make no mistake; the biggest clangers were dropped well before they rode into town. That should be universally recognised.

Now, what time to the pubs open, I need a drink.....

I was thinking of The Numbskulls. Or were they in Topper?

lordsummerisle said:

Imagine he's a bit like that comic strip inThe Beezer I think, which had this bloke being controlled by little fellas in his head pulling levers and things, but always getting into scrapes **.

Wish I could remember what it was called.

**Scrapes is something that people only ever get into in British comics of a certain vintage, never in real life.

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And the Numskulls it was. God, I'm good.

SiSU have not behaved in a professional manner in this. ACL (despite not being obliged to) have offered an unheard of 3/3 reduction in rent, and are prepared to allow them to pay the outstanding arrears over 10 years! I cannot believe ANYONE can possibly argue that ACl have gone out of their way to accomodate SiSU.

For their part, SiSU didn't spend one penny on the team, but let go or sold every single player within the team that they could get money for, Even then the monies were well below what could have been reasonably expected to achieve for the players.

ACL took out a £20 million loan out to ensure that coventry had a home to play football when the original sponsor - Jaguar pulled out at the last minute! ACL have much more of a claim to have saved the club than SiSU EVER have!

Also SiSU used delay after delay to push the deal literally to within an hour of admin, and took the shares without paying the shareholders a single penny! SiSU claimed that all debts were cleared when they took over, yet have recently equitised around £60million of debts! They mortgage every asset CCFC had. When the crowds were protesting about the lack of investment, they allowed the stewards to use aggressive tactics to remove these protest banners, and not only didn't apologise, but justified their actions on the grounds of H&S (despite Blackburn fans being allowed to have a similar protest without hassle from the stewards).

They have said time and time again that they listen to the fans and have learnt lessons, but still carry on in the same manner as before! The ultimate owner has NEVER given a radio interview, or met with fans to allow them to air their grievances. They promised a "bounce back" bidget, but unless they regard simply signing frees as a bounce back budget, it just wass wrong.

They claim they would give an interview if asked; the radio stations claimed they have asked yet Joy STILL has never responded!

The Ricoh whilst at the moment is a football stadium, it would require very littlemodification to maje it a pure events venue (similar to O2, NEC). Also if they owned the stadium, they could use their portion of equity, to obtain further mortgages and / or to dump other bad debts.

There is so much wrong with the way SiSU have not only run (should say ruined) the club, it defies all logic, to claim that they are not bad for the club! Under SiSU we have had nothing but woeful performance, little if any success (indeed the nearest we have had to actual success was winning a game against Man U).

If SiSU had said from day one they weren't going to buy the Ricoh, or that it was going to be 5 years with not just no success, but to actually get relegated, would people have been so keen to bring SiSU on borad in the first place? (hindsight is a wonderful thing).

They claim to be asking for a fair league 1 rent, but how do they work this out? Renting a 32,000 stadium is going to cost more than a 15k stadium! Of course its going to be higher.

I find it quite frankly offensive to claim anyone who is angry at SiSU refusing to pay the rent is being in anyway disloyal. Were it not for ACLs determination for coventry city to succeed, CCFC would have already been forced into receivership by SiSU's actions.

How can you possibly claim SiSU are trying to save the club, when there very actions are putting it in peril? It just seems to show a deep lack of understanding of the issues. Hiding your head in the sand isn't going to make the financial problems go away.

The annual losses for CCFC are well above the cost of the £1.28M/yr for the current rent. Indeed for SiSU to turn a profit, ACL would have to pay city to play there! All of this is an utterly cynical attempt to try and use pressure from fans to force ACL's hand.

Finally when its said there are no bids currently on the table, that doesn't mean there aren't takers! If a car isn't for sale, people don't put a bid in - its only when it is on the market that people bid!

SiSU had an offer, and for whatever reason rejected it and at the same time revealed information that should have been confidential - this DESPITE SiSU insisting the council signed an unprecedanted confidentiality agreement (probably in violation of the councils remit BTW).

Its for these and a myriad of other points not raised that people don't trust SiSU to do either the honourable or right thing by City. If they kept there word and were more open upfront and just plain honest perhaps people would understand, but the tactics SiSU have used and continue to use, are totally in contrast to their promise (made several times) to be open and honest.

If you want to back this group thats your shout, but to imply that by not backing SiSU you are in someway being disloyal - do me a favour. Fans only have allegiance to the team, they don't owe anything to individuals, be they players, the manager or the owners. If a club is supposed to run in a profit, then surely its the fans who pay the players wages! The owners, manager, and players owe it to the fans to play to the best of their ability, make tactical decisions as best they can and the owners to pay the bills, to ensure the team can play!

By refusing (as opposed to being unable) to pay the rent, they are putting the very existance of CCFC in its current guise in jeopardy.

I cannot believe anyone who has actually looked into SiSUs handling of the rent issue, can condone their behaviour. Sure I don't have a problem them renegotiating the rent, but SiSU aren't negotiating, they are simply refusing, and this CANNOT be condoned!

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

Now, what time to the pubs open, I need a drink.....

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Cue 'mines a large one' joke.
.
.
.
Sorry !

@psgm ...

ah, never mind.