Proper supporters fighting for their club (16 Viewers)

SydneySkyBlue · Feb 29, 2012

kduffy said:
Unlikely as they has not been any sustained success for 40 years. This ultimately is the problem. Liverpool is hardly the same is it? They have a product deemed worthy of investment and fans who support the club.
Our fanbase is about the size of Preston. Bradford have better support than us. SISU continue to bankroll the club. It may be far from perfect but they have excercised a degree of corporate responsibility by maintaining the club despite seeing no hope of even recovering a fraction of their investment. Protest? Time to show support in my view. Show potential investors a club worth taking a punt at by demonstrating some support.

So you're saying that any future success is based on a club's trophy cabinet? Tell that to Dave Whelan, who showed that if you both invest in a club and run it in the right way you can achieve things.

As for corporate responsibility, what about the fans that handed over their family shares in the club on the promise of a better future? On failing to deliver that promise wouldn't the responsible thing to do have been to give the club back for the price you got it for - nothing?

It's not realistic though is it? They are trying to claw back their money, as any firm would do that have invested in something they have no compassionate ties to. It's understandable; but if you think that they're acting in anyone else's interest but their own then I'd love to know what you're basing that on.

SydneySkyBlue · Feb 29, 2012

I also think you are grossly underestimating our club's potential fan base. This a club that brought over 11,000 to an away League Cup game at Old Trafford on a Tuesday night only a few seasons ago - breaking the record away attendance there at the time. A club that also had around a million in the city to celebrate the winning of the FA Cup and crowds of near 50,000 (or was it more?) back in the 60's. We have the entire county of Warwickshire that could do with a nearer team to support instead of not giving a shit or choosing to support Villa!

SydneySkyBlue · Feb 29, 2012

We have plenty of football fans in the surrounding area just waiting to watch a successful team at the Ricoh. All it took was a cup tie against Chelsea and look how many people suddenly wanted to be there to see great players at their local stadium. It could have sold out twice.

Grendel · Feb 29, 2012

GinettasStickySofa said:
So you're saying that any future success is based on a club's trophy cabinet? Tell that to Dave Whelan, who showed that if you both invest in a club and run it in the right way you can achieve things.

Local entrepreneurs worth that sort of money are few and far between. Don't make that in car accessories. Also an odd choice. If Dave Whelan was Hoffman we would know exactly the money on offer and what the stumbling blocks are and he would pay to buy his way in. Nothing would be secret.

GinettasStickySofa said:
As for corporate responsibility, what about the fans that handed over their family shares in the club on the promise of a better future? On failing to deliver that promise wouldn't the responsible thing to do have been to give the club back for the price you got it for - nothing?

They did not get it for nothing and the selling shares was a disgrace, who agreed that why Mr Coventry the chum of Garry Hoffman. How reassuring.

SydneySkyBlue · Mar 1, 2012

kduffy said:
Local entrepreneurs worth that sort of money are few and far between. Don't make that in car accessories. Also an odd choice. If Dave Whelan was Hoffman we would know exactly the money on offer and what the stumbling blocks are and he would pay to buy his way in. Nothing would be secret.

They did not get it for nothing and the selling shares was a disgrace, who agreed that why Mr Coventry the chum of Garry Hoffman. How reassuring.

Hoffman's dealings with SISU are kept confidential because that's how big business is done in the real world. How in your right mind can you think that telling the public what 'the stumbling blocks' are is a good idea?

SISU were offered what they originally took the club for - a clean slate. True no?

Grendel · Mar 1, 2012

GinettasStickySofa said:
Hoffman's dealings with SISU are kept confidential because that's how big business is done in the real world. How in your right mind can you think that telling the public what 'the stumbling blocks' are is a good idea?

SISU were offered what they originally took the club for - a clean slate. True no?

Actually really big business is done in relative publicity (Jaguar's purchase by TATA and Cadbury by Craft). The problem here is there are no shareholders other than SISU and we all know who to blame for that.

No it was not a clean slate. Debts were paid including a large Revenue Bill as I suspect you well know. I am not a SISU apologist but we have to be realistic. We know nothing of Hoffman's dealings other than it is not his money and we know nothing of his or SISU's intentions. Whatever happen's will happen and protests could ultimately put off investors if they exist at all.

Grendel · Mar 1, 2012

GinettasStickySofa said:
We have plenty of football fans in the surrounding area just waiting to watch a successful team at the Ricoh. All it took was a cup tie against Chelsea and look how many people suddenly wanted to be there to see great players at their local stadium. It could have sold out twice.

This emphasises the fickle nature of our supporters. We played Sheffield Utd in the same week and were not far off the play-offs. Normal service was resumed. Most "fans" wnated a look at Drogba, Lampard etc. and would have recognised them better than our own players. It means nothing.

georgehudson · Mar 1, 2012

kd, ccfc fans did their shares hand - over in good faith,
have **** acted in this way,
i personally think not,
their agenda is determined by persons who appear to have a myopic view of football,
the words 'gold diggers' springs to mind, but,
their perceived view is that it has not worked,
so, where to from here,
maybe they'll cut & run,
i'd hope that they would admit their shortcomings,
but i fear they want their 'pound of flesh',
oh what a tangled web they weave
PUSB

SydneySkyBlue · Mar 1, 2012

One thing we do know is that our current owners have no future at our club under their own resources. Therefore under their tenure we have nothing guaranteed but further bleakness.

We also know that we have a party waiting in the wings led by a leading figure in the banking industry who has the club's future at heart.

Based on our current predicament it's fair to say that saying the "better the devil you know" doesn't apply here!*

What are you basing this idea on that protests might put off investors?

At least those in favour of protests have evidence to back their case up.

As for those 'fickle fans', well they're the ones that buy season tickets when you're back in the premiership and they can see the glamorous side of the game again. It's an entertainment industry after all.

dongonzalos · Mar 1, 2012

Sick Boy said:
At least people are beginning to see that they shouldn't accept SISU putting a scout in charge of our club.

I agree with the original poster, our fans should not be so accepting of it.

Things SISU should not have done

1) Bought a football club that did not own its ground expecting that the council would
give
you the ground as that is good for the club. Not be prepared to buy the ground
2) Hide to true identity of the key investors as it provides a perception that there is
something sinister going on whether there is or not
3) Employ a person which key football know how and who actually had an
investment interest aswell but dont trust them to make important decisions
4) Get to a junction where you either invest 2 million on A.Carroll,
J.henderson and J.Cork or dont invest and sell what you have before ensuring you
have suitable replacemnts on the table
5) Once in the bottom three at xmas 6 points adrift following the above decisions, weigh
up the cost of relegation against the £600000 (after Everton) to be gained from
selling your top striker and still sell him. Again despite not having suitable replacements
lined up
6) Install lots of chairman, CEO's board members whatever they are called
7) Listen to orange Ken to not negotiate with the Hoff
8) Sack managers every year or so, hoping to find one who can achieve more from a
squad than the season before with less talent at their disposal.
9) Westwood asked for contract extension talks did not happen
10) King verbally agreed to sign on phone other clubs were sniffing Fergie would have
gone to his holiday location and got the signiture

I think when you consider the above decisions going on, it is pretty hard to judge AT as a manager, so I think there is a bit more to focus on regarding SISU than their choice of manager

Earlsdon-Loyal-Blue · Mar 1, 2012

I hate to say this, but our fans are absolutley shit. look at the 'big' protest at the southampton game,a pathetic few hundred people. villa had thousands and thousands for their protest against mcleish,and like wise with leeds for the anti ken bates march,they had thousands march through the city centre to the ground.We asked supporters to stand by a fucking statue outside the ground for 15 mins at the start of the game and got a turnout comparable with a school assembly.fucking pathetic,and lets be honest,our attendances are shiite but I'm more annoyed that what little support we have left,take it up the arse tbh.

@richh87 · Mar 1, 2012

GinettasStickySofa said:
I can empathise with Rich on this.

Far more of our fans should indeed be angry at how badly our club is being run.

Instead many have come to accept the situation as 'the norm' due to years of perpetual failure draining any pride or fighting spirit out of them.

Supporters of successful clubs don't put up with it because they come to expect success. Anything else is a shock to the system.

Here at Coventry City though, we will accept it and even deride others for trying to do something about it.

The usual suspects will say that I am accepting failure by not slaughtering the manager like they do. The truth of the matter is though that their anger is misplaced because even they will admit that ultimately the buck lies with SISU.

Another common excuse for apathy is that there is apparently no alternative to our current dictatorship.

Well excuse me but what a load of apologist bollocks.

I can hear it already:
"If Hoffman's going to buy the club then why hasn't he done it already? Why the side show?"

If Hoffman's not trying to buy the club then what is he doing? And if he hasn't been successful then why aren't more of us putting pressure on SISU to sell the club at a more reasonable price.

Why do people think that Hoffman should be able/willing to throw a load of cash at it to prove himself?

The opportunity for the supporters to play their part has been laid on a plate by a media call to arms by Hoffman's people. Those that have responded have had banners and even balloons taken off them in an oppressive attempt to hush the discerning voice of the club.

You'd think that denying people their freedom of speech would cause more than a little uproar in this day and age but, again, nothing has been made of it.

If we were still a PL club SISU would not get away with the above but as it happens there is simply not enough media attention on our club for the world of the football to stand up and take notice. If there was though you can bet that supporters of other clubs would more than likely agree that our efforts have been 'pathetic'.

Can I replace my opening post with his please!

City supporters EFFORTS are pathetic. That's much better and there's no denying it!

As ginetta says - you'd think SISU'S aggressive censorship would be met angrily. What is this - Nazi Germany?

Otis · Mar 1, 2012

@richh87 said:
Hi friends!

City fans are pathetic because they don't protest like Blackburn. You see the article mentions them marching as they've had enough of terrible ownership.

Our situation is far worse, however the majority remain apathetic and recently try to blame things on the manager - which ironically is very similar to Blackburn fans.

Not rocket science boys - just need to be able to read.

About time people fought for their club.

Are these the same Blackburn fans who were branded a disgrace by many a pundit and manager and pretty much everyone else for their appalling bully boy behaviour towards Steve Kean? Those Blackburn fans? :thinking about:

valiant15 · Mar 1, 2012

Are fans our a joke.

Macca · Mar 1, 2012

When people say our fans are shit they obviously mean everyone apart from them. They on the other hand are big men because they always put watching a football match over everything else. I m so jealous and can only aspire to achieve this myself . Anyway couple of points.. The dull continuously used example of the Chelsea game. People use that as of it is completely unique to us. It happens at every club. World class players come to town and increase attendance shock. I know of 12 people myself who went to that who support neither club. This is how when lower league clubs averaging 3000 take 9000 to an away fixture at a premier league club in the cup and as far as I know it's not illegal. Another myth is that we will suddenly fill the Ricoh if we were in the premiership.. Hmm like HR was at capacity every week? Anyway finally people that never go to a game pull your finger out, people who never miss a game well done but get over yourselves. You re watching football not changing the world

Grendel · Mar 1, 2012

Earlsdon-Loyal-Blue said:
I hate to say this, but our fans are absolutley shit. look at the 'big' protest at the southampton game,a pathetic few hundred people. villa had thousands and thousands for their protest against mcleish,and like wise with leeds for the anti ken bates march,they had thousands march through the city centre to the ground.We asked supporters to stand by a fucking statue outside the ground for 15 mins at the start of the game and got a turnout comparable with a school assembly.fucking pathetic,and lets be honest,our attendances are shiite but I'm more annoyed that what little support we have left,take it up the arse tbh.

You forgot to add a title to your charming little post - How about How to Win Friends and Influence People.

Grendel · Mar 1, 2012

@richh87 said:
As ginetta says - you'd think SISU'S aggressive censorship would be met angrily. What is this - Nazi Germany?

No it's the Ricoh Arena.

lordsummerisle · Mar 1, 2012

valiant15 said:
Are fans our a joke.

Joke our fans are a?

lordsummerisle · Mar 1, 2012

@richh87 said:
As ginetta says - you'd think SISU'S aggressive censorship would be met angrily. What is this - Nazi Germany?

I invoke Godwins Law, you lose.

@richh87 · Mar 1, 2012

Otis said:
Are these the same Blackburn fans who were branded a disgrace by many a pundit and manager and pretty much everyone else for their appalling bully boy behaviour towards Steve Kean? Those Blackburn fans? :thinking about:

Things aren't always black and white.

Their treatment of Kean has been disgusting, but they have now turned on those that deserve it - Venkys. It looks like the penny has dropped finally there.

A few City fans are doing this in reverse - firstly protesting at SISU (who deserve it), but now turning on the manager with a squad full of children and freebies.

Which fans are smarter? Probably the ones who've come to the correct conclusion, I.e. not City fans.

You would think that wrestling banners, and censoring fans home and away would anger you people - but It's met with shrugging and an attitude of "SISU won't let us blame them so let's find someone else".

Where's the pride gone?

@richh87 · Mar 1, 2012

lordsummerisle said:
I invoke Godwins Law, you lose.

I'm pretty sure Godwin's Law doesn't make you a 'winner'.

In fact I'd be surprised if anything could.

ajsccfc · Mar 1, 2012

@richh87 said:
Things aren't always black and white.

Agreed. We should tell this to the guy who lazily rendered a load of supporters as 'pathetic'.

CJparker · Mar 1, 2012

What the Blackburn fans have done to Steve Kean is a disgrace - those responsible should be ashamed. I'd be embarrassed if Coventry fans mounted a similar campaign against anyone at the club.

CUS Wyken · Mar 1, 2012

GinettasStickySofa said:
Whether or not you think it had an impact, look at the reaction of Liverpool's fans to their club being run badly.

Manchester United and Newcastle have silenced their supporters by delivering on the pitch. It appears SISU don't need to worry to much about silencing ours. Just tell a few stewards to take some banners and hey presto. I'm going to assume that you weren't implying that success will follow suit under SISU...

Difference is Man United and Newcastle are in the Prem and get big crowds.

Were bottom 3 of Championship with crowds of 13k...

I agree that SISU should get a rough ride but to use the above as an example(s) is unreasonable.

@richh87 · Mar 1, 2012

ajsccfc said:
Agreed. We should tell this to the guy who lazily rendered a load of supporters as 'pathetic'.

You're right it was lazy. The large majority's efforts are pathetic.

ajsccfc · Mar 1, 2012

The people who aren't doing what you think they should, you mean.

covcity4life · Mar 1, 2012

@richh87 said:
Hi friends!

City fans are pathetic because they don't protest like Blackburn. You see the article mentions them marching as they've had enough of terrible ownership.

Our situation is far worse, however the majority remain apathetic and recently try to blame things on the manager - which ironically is very similar to Blackburn fans.

Not rocket science boys - just need to be able to read.

About time people fought for their club.

so if we are similar to blackburn fans we must be "proper" fans?

so whats the problem?

Godiva · Mar 1, 2012

@richh87 said:
Things aren't always black and white.

Their treatment of Kean has been disgusting, but they have now turned on those that deserve it - Venkys. It looks like the penny has dropped finally there.

A few City fans are doing this in reverse - firstly protesting at SISU (who deserve it), but now turning on the manager with a squad full of children and freebies.

Which fans are smarter? Probably the ones who've come to the correct conclusion, I.e. not City fans.

You would think that wrestling banners, and censoring fans home and away would anger you people - but It's met with shrugging and an attitude of "SISU won't let us blame them so let's find someone else".

Where's the pride gone?

First - I think it was the stewards at the Ricoh - under orders from the management of the Ricoh - who took away the banners. The Ricoh is NOT owned by sisu, so you can't really blame that on the club owners.

Second - at this moment there seem to finally be some sort of order and relative calm at the club. The influence of that is showing in the results. We're still not relegated and we have a real chance of staying up. Do you really want to get us back to unrest and instabillity?

Third - Let's say you got it your way and tomorrow sisu hand over their shares and the office keys to Hoffman. Then what?
Let's pretend that Hoffman has all the chicken lined up and his investors are ready to move in.
Now we have swapped one set of annonymous investors with another set of annonymous investors.
I assume they will put Hoffman in the chair ... the man who originally helped sisu to take over the club and who sat in the boardroom for the first three years and miserably failed to gain any kind of financial stabillity or success on the pitch.
Why would he succeed second time around? Would you install Coleman as manager again?

But with new investors, he bring in new money. Only he cannot spend too much in the team as increased wages will conflict with the FFP regulation and in any case they will have to continue the task of getting the finances to breakeven. The club will need to come off the permanent life support and live within its means.

So I don't really see enough potential change to the clubs situation to support the sisu-out campaign (and never have).

You may argue that Hoffmans backing group will buy the Ricoh and invest in the whole area around it.
Fine, that would be great, but why can't they start there? Why should they not be able to acknowledge that sisu runs the club for the next few years while they buy the stadium and build up the surrounding infrastructure and business? Then - when all that is done - then they can take over the club.
In the mean time the club will benefit from the developing around it and from having a stable financial future.
Yes, I admit that way sisu would actually end up regaining all their money and probably even make a profit. You may not like that outcome, but I actually find it fair.

SydneySkyBlue · Mar 1, 2012

CUS Wyken said:
Difference is Man United and Newcastle are in the Prem and get big crowds.

Were bottom 3 of Championship with crowds of 13k...

I agree that SISU should get a rough ride but to use the above as an example(s) is unreasonable.

Kduffy was using it as an example of how supporters protests can have no effect at all so I thought it needed pointing out that their fans have been silenced by success on the pitch.

valiant15 · Mar 1, 2012

Yes let's hope sisu keep hold of us for a few more years,id look forward to us playing nuneaton or leamington in a league game.

SydneySkyBlue · Mar 1, 2012

covcity4life said:
so if we are similar to blackburn fans we must be "proper" fans?

so whats the problem?

The issue in question is the willingness to take action by the both sets of supporters.

While we will condemn Blackburn's fans for their treatment of Steve Kean, their passion on the whole seems to be far greater than ours. The organised marches through town are an example of what we could be doing.

Coventry's population is 3 times that of Blackburn's and we've let our club become a circus and a laughing stock with nothing but a whimper.

Godiva · Mar 1, 2012

valiant15 said:
Yes let's hope sisu keep hold of us for a few more years,id look forward to us playing nuneaton or leamington in a league game.

The chance of that happening is (in my eyes) exactly the same if Hoffman takes over.

SydneySkyBlue · Mar 1, 2012

Godiva said:
The chance of that happening is (in my eyes) exactly the same if Hoffman takes over.

Based on what?

Godiva · Mar 1, 2012

GinettasStickySofa said:
Based on what?

read post #63

SydneySkyBlue · Mar 1, 2012

Godiva said:
First - I think it was the stewards at the Ricoh - under orders from the management of the Ricoh - who took away the banners. The Ricoh is NOT owned by sisu, so you can't really blame that on the club owners.

Second - at this moment there seem to finally be some sort of order and relative calm at the club. The influence of that is showing in the results. We're still not relegated and we have a real chance of staying up. Do you really want to get us back to unrest and instabillity?

Third - Let's say you got it your way and tomorrow sisu hand over their shares and the office keys to Hoffman. Then what?
Let's pretend that Hoffman has all the chicken lined up and his investors are ready to move in.
Now we have swapped one set of annonymous investors with another set of annonymous investors.
I assume they will put Hoffman in the chair ... the man who originally helped sisu to take over the club and who sat in the boardroom for the first three years and miserably failed to gain any kind of financial stabillity or success on the pitch.
Why would he succeed second time around? Would you install Coleman as manager again?

But with new investors, he bring in new money. Only he cannot spend too much in the team as increased wages will conflict with the FFP regulation and in any case they will have to continue the task of getting the finances to breakeven. The club will need to come off the permanent life support and live within its means.

So I don't really see enough potential change to the clubs situation to support the sisu-out campaign (and never have).

You may argue that Hoffmans backing group will buy the Ricoh and invest in the whole area around it.
Fine, that would be great, but why can't they start there? Why should they not be able to acknowledge that sisu runs the club for the next few years while they buy the stadium and build up the surrounding infrastructure and business? Then - when all that is done - then they can take over the club.
In the mean time the club will benefit from the developing around it and from having a stable financial future.
Yes, I admit that way sisu would actually end up regaining all their money and probably even make a profit. You may not like that outcome, but I actually find it fair.

So you're happy to sit back and watch SISU further asset-strip your club because it's 'fair'. Fair for an investment firm who's investment went wrong so we have to suffer?

You cannot associate any outside protests with what's going on on the pitch. There has been no evidence that it has had a detrimental effect and the player's themselves blame the board for their league position.

The situation is this:
The board are now in a position where they cannot obtain further funds from SISU who want out. The council also have no intention of letting SISU own the ground. There is no future for SISU at this club.
On the other hand, we have an interested party that wants to buy the ground and go from there. Are we ruling out the possibility that this can happen without even giving it a chance?

Tarring Hoffman with the SISU brush because he was on the board doesn't really make sense seeing as he resigned after a disagreement with how the club was being run...

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