Quality of officiating (2 Viewers)

chiefdave · Dec 28, 2015

I appreciate its the third tier but surely something has to be done about the standard of officiating. Even at this level the money that rest on their decisions can be huge.

The last four games our refs have been appalling and have cost us points. Those points could end up costing us promotion and millions of pounds.

Why is such a poor standard being allowed. There doesn't seem to even be any talk of there being a problem. Any manager that mentions anything gets a fine.

I can't believe there's not enough money in the game to sort this out.

joemercersaces · Dec 28, 2015

I have often wondered why managers don't challenge the fines imposed on them for speaking their minds. They are duty bound to do press interviews while the blood is hot then get totally disproportionate and eye watering fines for doing just that, and often just for telling the truth about incompetent buffoons. I'd love to see a manager tell them to fuck themselves and justify the fine in a court.

Hobo · Dec 28, 2015

joemercersaces said:
I have often wondered why managers don't challenge the fines imposed on them for speaking their minds. They are duty bound to do press interviews while the blood is hot then get totally disproportionate and eye watering fines for doing just that, and often just for telling the truth about incompetent buffoons. I'd love to see a manager tell them to fuck themselves and justify the fine in a court.

the problem is you enter the competition accepting the rules however unjust the outcome. Rule number 1 the football League is always right. Rule number 2 Referees give decisions on how they saw it. Rule number 3 Managers should not try and manipulate the press, are guilty and need to read rule 1 and rule 2 again.

Silence_Is_The_Enemy · Dec 28, 2015

nothing will change with officials unless all 92 team owners agreed to go out on strike over a weekend. if they took that sort of action the FA would be forced into big changes the main been that officials should be in leagues similar to the teams where your scored on performance and ultimately promoted and relegated based on said score. football is worth to much money at the minute for bad officiating to cost you promotion or relegated the amount of times the ref association apologized to Andy Thorn the season we went down for bad decisions that cost us points was a joke it might not have been why we went down we were awful but it sure as hell didnt help.

shmmeee · Dec 29, 2015

For me it's criminal we don't help refs as much as possible. We could take offside and goal line decisions away from them and allowing the fourth official to chip in on sendings off, penalties and the like with the benefit of replays seems sensible to me as well.

I'd be open to extra assistants or something as well. I don't think most mistakes are because refs are shit (though some are) I think it's because the modern game is fast and hard to officiate. Give them all the help we can if you ask me.

covcity4life · Dec 29, 2015

i dunno, i doubt the refs have it in for us, we just dont pay attention to when things go out way is all.

i mean martins goal vs oldham came from a initial corner that should have been a goal kick for e.g

kg82 · Dec 29, 2015

covcity4life said:
i dunno, i doubt the refs have it in for us, we just dont pay attention to when things go out way is all.

i mean martins goal vs oldham came from a initial corner that should have been a goal kick for e.g

Agreed. I'd say over the past few games more decisions have gone against than for us. But Murphy could've gone for a challenge against port vale. I hadn't even heard about that till I saw it on the highlights.

Wyken Sky Blue · Dec 29, 2015

I would like to see referees interviewed after games to explain decisions they have made. They just seem to disappear into the woodwork after the game until the next game.

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rupert_bear · Dec 29, 2015

The baldy linesman yesterday was getting massive stick for his constant flagging for offside especially when Armstrong came on l was directly behind him and I am not saying he was perfect but after attacks broke down Armstrong was dawdling back and often getting involved when the ball was played towards him seemingly onside but being flagged off for this second faze thing. Don't fully understand this rule but I think someone else needs to touch the ball before he can challenge whether he touches it or not he is off I believe.

SkyBlueSid · Dec 29, 2015

I certainly agree that refereeing has not kept pace with the speed and complexity of the modern game. It is also true that the standard in the third tier is pretty mediocre, and on some occasions utterly dire. The Elite group never get to do our level, except for the odd TV game, so we are far more likely to get the dross anyway. Bear in mind too that there have been some retirements from the Elite group and they are really struggling to replace them from the national group. Top refs are simply not being turned out by the system, which is full of ordinary time servers.

There have been a few tactics to deflect from referees' shortcomings. One, in my opinion, is the deliberate complication of the offside rule which has led to the powers-that-be being able to defend a decision on a tight call, whatever the call has been. That is madness and very frustrating for fans who really need some clarity. Referees not speaking to the media just makes it worse. For instance, our ref at Sheffield United should have been required to justify his thinking after that game to someone.

mechaishida · Dec 29, 2015

chiefdave said:
I appreciate its the third tier but surely something has to be done about the standard of officiating. Even at this level the money that rest on their decisions can be huge.

The last four games our refs have been appalling and have cost us points. Those points could end up costing us promotion and millions of pounds.

Why is such a poor standard being allowed. There doesn't seem to even be any talk of there being a problem. Any manager that mentions anything gets a fine.

I can't believe there's not enough money in the game to sort this out.

This epitomises my feeling on the subject of officiating too, mate.

It seems the 3rd tier is getting the absolute dregs at the moment, truly awful officials.

oscillatewildly · Dec 29, 2015

To describe the guy in the middle y'day as being a 'homer' just doesn't do justice. The clown with the flag needs remedial training.

lagger · Dec 29, 2015

The only consistent with referees is that they are all shit

Adge · Dec 29, 2015

lagger said:
The only consistent with referees is that they are all shit

Not true! As a referee myself these sort of comments make me laugh! I can assure you that there is no bias when it comes to making decisions and we are all to eager too offer comments like the pundit dicks on television when they have looked at the incident 5-6 times and then slowed it down.
A great example of this was on Match Of The Day last night where the Watford defender got sent off for dangerous play/excessive force. The clown of a commentator was asking if this was violent conduct? Violent conduct is when you strike an opponent off the ball!
I remember a certain Robbie Savage was always against the officials weather that be on the pitch or later during his radio career and was invited to referee a fixture. I think he has now change his opinion on things!

letsallsingtogether · Dec 29, 2015

Adge said:
Not true! As a referee myself these sort of comments make me laugh! I can assure you that there is no bias when it comes to making decisions and we are all to eager too offer comments like the pundit dicks on television when they have looked at the incident 5-6 times and then slowed it down.
A great example of this was on Match Of The Day last night where the Watford defender got sent off for dangerous play/excessive force. The clown of a commentator was asking if this was violent conduct? Violent conduct is when you strike an opponent off the ball!
I remember a certain Robbie Savage was always against the officials weather that be on the pitch or later during his radio career and was invited to referee a fixture. I think he has now change his opinion on things!

So
Sorry but he gave 3 offsides yesterday that you could see from behind the goal wasn't.
Ether he doesn't know the rules d needs retraining or he just decided to give them due to bias.
I ran the line for over 10 years for my son's team and yes I made a few mistakes, but come on these blokes are paid for it.
I did it for nothing and had no training.
They are poor and really shouldn't be paid for making such one sided decisions.

I_Saw_Shaw_Score · Dec 29, 2015

The linos make me laugh when they don't know which way a throw in is ref gives it then the moron with the flag copies him, cheers for that!

Gazolba · Dec 29, 2015

All officials should go in one pot and be drawn randomly each weekend among the four divisions. When the Premier League teams see what the rest of us have to put up with, there will be an outcry and something will be done.

I_Saw_Shaw_Score · Dec 29, 2015

Gazolba said:
All officials should go in one pot and be drawn randomly each weekend among the four divisions. When the Premier League teams see what the rest of us have to put up with, there will be an outcry and something will be done.

Agree irks me when they drop a higher ranking official down leagues for TV games in L1 etc,whys that!?

georgehudson · Dec 29, 2015

we may be third tier, but consistently this season we've had to put up with dross that wouldnt match up to 8th or 9th tier leagues,
in the prem if a ref has a stinker then he'll probably be sidelined for a week or three, there is no such system in the football league

Gazolba · Dec 29, 2015

I'm wondering who pays the officials wages? Is it billed to the clubs for each game? Anyone know? Maybe that would be a reason for having cheaper officials for the lower divisions.

Adge · Dec 29, 2015

letsallsingtogether said:
So
Sorry but he gave 3 offsides yesterday that you could see from behind the goal wasn't.
Ether he doesn't know the rules d needs retraining or he just decided to give them due to bias.
I ran the line for over 10 years for my son's team and yes I made a few mistakes, but come on these blokes are paid for it.
I did it for nothing and had no training.
They are poor and really shouldn't be paid for making such one sided decisions.

Think you may have just answered your own question. 3 offsides that you could see from behind the goal? I was behind the goal and would suggest that to make a call you would have to be behind the assistant referee who was flagging and no call could be made from your view as you were not in line. You state you did it for nothing and had no training-So you don't know the laws properly then and if you have had no training how you can you make a judgement call then? There are no "rules" in football. There are 17 Laws. I can assure you that these guys have regular fitness tests and do get paid but not as much as people think. At L1 it would be around £175 as I know an assistant referee who regularly is an assistant is at this level.
Everyone is an expert from the sidelines when it comes to their team.

letsallsingtogether · Dec 29, 2015

Adge said:
Think you may have just answered your own question. 3 offsides that you could see from behind the goal? I was behind the goal and would suggest that to make a call you would have to be behind the assistant referee who was flagging and no call could be made from your view as you were not in line. You state you did it for nothing and had no training-So you don't know the laws properly then and if you have had no training how you can you make a judgement call then? There are no "rules" in football. There are 17 Laws. I can assure you that these guys have regular fitness tests and do get paid but not as much as people think. At L1 it would be around £175 as I know an assistant referee who regularly is an assistant is at this level.
Everyone is an expert from the sidelines when it comes to their team.

They may have regular tests but they are still shit and as for the you were not in line comment you do not need to be in line to see a blatant offside decision.
£175 for 2 hours work yet still can't do it to a decent level.
Defend them all you lik, they would get sacked in any other proffesion for that many mistakes.

ps1948 · Dec 29, 2015

The main offside decisions that were made (in my opinion) wrongly yesterday were the one where Murphy ran through from a position that was miles onside, and there were two in the first half where he didn't flag their players offside (again, my opinion only, looking along the line as we were in the stand on the side).
I am not going to go with the "they are paid so they shouldn't make mistakes" brigade, as the players we watch and support all make far more mistakes in a match, and are (I suspect) all paid far more than the officials. I just think that we are where we are, and we just have to hope that every now and again we get a better than average ref. It's also funny that there is not as much criticism in the games we win.....
In the Everton game yesterday Martinez criticised the ref for giving a penalty that I watched several times and agreed was a penalty, but didn't say anything about the awful control by Gareth Barry when in acres of space that gave the ball to the Stoke player. And Pulis didn't complain at all about the fact that Newcastle were denied a clear penalty, either.

Gazolba · Dec 29, 2015

What irks me most are the blatant fouls that go unpunished. Many of these incidents could cause serious injury and not punishing the culprits degrades the skill level in the game. I'm also annoyed by the reluctance to give a second yellow card for an offence that at any other time would earn a first yellow. And things like kicking the ball away, shirt-pulling, diving and holding should unfailingly earn a yellow card in my opinion.

Deleted member 4439 · Dec 29, 2015

There was no way that lino at the Port Vale match could have run his line under 4 minutes. Talk about who ate all the mince pies.

Adge · Dec 29, 2015

They do get sacked if they are not good enough. They will have an assessor in the stand at every game and will know the results of that fixture within 5 days of the match. If they have made mistakes they will not get the gig-simple as that which shows that the officials on display yesterday are obviously competent or they would not have been given the fixture. Infact, the Referee on show has officiated in the championship.

Deleted member 4439 · Dec 29, 2015

Gazolba said:
I'm wondering who pays the officials wages? Is it billed to the clubs for each game? Anyone know? Maybe that would be a reason for having cheaper officials for the lower divisions.

Think this has a lot to do with the situation. FL, especially below championship, is starved of funds.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Dec 29, 2015

Aren't officials at this level only part time? Most will have a second job which can't be good for concentration levels if they are working long days/nights during the week then probably have a long travel to the match before officiating the match.

IrishSkyBlue · Dec 29, 2015

with everything technology based these days why cant the ref have a smart watch with a screen on it look back on replays quickly himself or like rugby get 4th official to look or the footage and make a decision there, i know they want the game to be quick but if it works in rugby why not football, as said the money involved is huge and these decisions could cost us

letsallsingtogether · Dec 29, 2015

IrishSkyBlue said:
with everything technology based these days why cant the ref have a smart watch with a screen on it look back on replays quickly himself or like rugby get 4th official to look or the footage and make a decision there, i know they want the game to be quick but if it works in rugby why not football, as said the money involved is huge and these decisions could cost us

Don't mensioned the Rugby

sw88 · Dec 29, 2015

Its all well and good calling for technology, but where would it end? How many 'appeals' per team? What grounds can you ask for a review of a decision / non decision?

At the same time I don't think extra officials are the answer. Look at the officials who stand beside the goal. How often do they actually get involved? They were initially brought in to do the job that goal line technology is now doing, so wouldn't bring anything else to the game IMO

chiefdave · Dec 29, 2015

sw88 said:
Its all well and good calling for technology, but where would it end? How many 'appeals' per team? What grounds can you ask for a review of a decision / non decision?

This is always the argument but it hasn't really done much harm to other sports. Can either be for the ref to ask for a replay or a set number of challenges per team.

Otis · Dec 29, 2015

sw88 said:
Its all well and good calling for technology, but where would it end? How many 'appeals' per team? What grounds can you ask for a review of a decision / non decision?

At the same time I don't think extra officials are the answer. Look at the officials who stand beside the goal. How often do they actually get involved? They were initially brought in to do the job that goal line technology is now doing, so wouldn't bring anything else to the game IMO

In American Football the coaches are allowed two red challenge flags. if their appeal is successful they retain their two appeals (or however many are left). If the ruling stands they go down to one challenge (or zero if only one left) and they are charged a time out.

It would have to be modified for football, but something along those sorts of lines could at least be looked at. How it would work in practise I'm not so sure.

chiefdave · Dec 29, 2015

Tennis and cricket are the same, you lose a challenge if you're unsuccessful.

lifeskyblue · Dec 29, 2015

Officials make mistakes...they occasionally get it wrong especially when your team is on the receiving end. However it is players who cheat and try and deceive, waste time, fein injury and question decisions even when it is clear they are wrong.

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Quality of officiating (2 Viewers)

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