Question Mark over Academy (2 Viewers)

italiahorse said:

I pay £3.50 for an hour on a quarter size pitch (14 of us) indoors.
Outside I pay £3 for an hour on half a pitch (20 of us)
That's to the 2 guys that organise it but it will give you an idea.

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Just that old boys walking football at your age I take it Grandaddy ??

skybluetony176 said:

That's what negotiations are for Nick. Nailing down the finer details. And there lies the second problem to SISU's short term thinking, they can't negotiate for toffee.

Seems to me that rather than being a problem this is an opportunity for SISU to rebuild some of the bridges they've burnt and maintain / add some value to CCFC. This to me seems so obvious that I would have thought any fan would want SISU to do but apparently being shouty it's Higgs fault is more important to some.

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Made me laugh....all this new SISU and goodwill...thought I'd missed summat. Christmas been moved this year, or something?

lordsummerisle said:

So what really should have happened with the Ricoh then?

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What's the Ricoh got to do with it? This thread is about the academy.

lordsummerisle said:

So what really should have happened with the Ricoh then?

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If I had my power over this situation it would be sorted out amicably all round............... 2 years ago all round a table, rent halved, income streams shared, quality marketing team put in place to promote the venue, train stop rushed through, Fisher and Waggot sacked, court action dropped, Wasps told to fuck off !

We all need to remember an stadium that will eventually hold 25,000 and a state of the art academy on the side is coming so no worries there :sarcasm:

lordsummerisle said:

So what really should have happened with the Ricoh then?

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Should have been left on the bloody board room table as a covering until the (**^%$ing directors and all) sitting around at Highfield Road, had the proper funding in place.

The real villains here. Tossers.

Ashdown said:

Nail on head really. Club pays for the pitch and uses it for nowt and splits additional revenue with Higgs when other costs have been deducted. It's not difficult is it if people will grow up !

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Nothin is ever that simple, especially with the animosity between both sides.

Higgs will probably expect the club to pay for the pitch replacement then continue to pay rent to hire it out and then keep all the income from when it is hired out.

Why not go 50/50
Whatever the Club puts In being offset against rent on an annual basis each year they remain
Realistically they are there for the next 4-5 regardless of ambitions aren't they
Does make you wonder If something else Is driving this over such small Investment

skybluetony176 said:

That's what negotiations are for Nick

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That would be refreshing instead everyone involved just worries about getting one over the other side rather than sensible negotiations

CCFC said:

That would be refreshing instead everyone involved just worries about getting one over the other side rather than sensible negotiations

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Its also the minimum we should expect from our owners.

wingy said:

Why not go 50/50
Whatever the Club puts In being offset against rent on an annual basis each year they remain
Realistically they are there for the next 4-5 regardless of ambitions aren't they
Does make you wonder If something else Is driving this over such small Investment

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They are there for 4 or 5 years realistically if sisu are planning to build a new stadium sure.

If higgs are worried though that the club might cease to exist considering nearly all the contracts at the club are due to expire in the summer then they could be concerned about a much shorter future than 5 years away.

Quotes from PKH in this piece perhaps add to the picture:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-academy-groundsman-8766124

Very touching. Well done young man.

steveecov said:

Very touching. Well done young man.

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Yeah let's all vote for him
PWKH pulling no punches there using It as a prompt to put the boot In

The club must be paying well over £100k to rent facilities at the ahc. Even if CCFC only stay 2 years AH are quids in. So stop bitching and maintain your centre.
I was there the other week and there were kids in the hall on bikes trying to skid on the pitch.
I would also suggest once they have replaced it they actually manage the centre better and stop such misuse. Or will our academy be blamed for that damage too?

wingy said:

Yeah let's all vote for him
PWKH pulling no punches there using It as a prompt to put the boot In

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He's just being a prick as usual I see

skybluetony176 said:

Its also the minimum we should expect from our owners.

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My minimum expectations are obviously less than yours; and I'm still disappointed.

wingy said:

PWKH pulling no punches there using It as a prompt to put the boot In

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Sad that he has to get a dig in at CCFC / SISU in a story that should be a good news piece about this chaps recovery and excellent work.

How do you vote for him, went to the website and couldn't see an option to vote.

I would think that there have been some sort of discussion with the academy already regarding this. I would also guess that nothing much has been agreed. What the charity is doing is highlighting that there is for them a decision making process that has started. That process will look at the incomes/cost benefit of having CCFC academy there but it will also look at alternative usage. For example with the central baths closing and a lead time to build the CCC alternative it might be possible that a swimming pool could be considered instead who knows.

Should the club pay for the repairs - depends on the agreement I would think. The £80,000 does come across as holding the club to ransom - but what agreement does the club have there for primacy of use etc, what did they agree to do? Got to be honest if faced with no long commitment to being there by CCFC and possible alternatives that might provide equal or better benefit to the AECT then there being an indoor pitch is not guaranteed. The Charity has do what is best for them and have no duty to CCFC other than fulfilling a contract or advising its termination

The decision has to be made not for this year but for much longer than that. If the surface is no longer fit for purpose then it can not be used and earn any income. For one thing the AH Centre might not be insured to make it available to anyone including the club. In that case the AECT will need to make a decision that benefits their objectives best and that might not be the CCFC Academy

That said isn't this a public invitation for the CCFC academy to come talk and negotiate? The cost of the replacement is far easier to absorb or amortise if you know there is a long term commitment to being there - as of now there is (in line with many other aspects of the club) very little long term commitment to anything.

Shouldn't be done in public but far better it is out in the open now than just being told the academy usage stopped yesterday and the academy cat 2 is gone. Both sides need to talk & negotiate. The academy itself should not be at risk because there are other venues etc but not ones that get you Cat 2

SBchimp said:

The club must be paying well over £100k to rent facilities at the ahc. Even if CCFC only stay 2 years AH are quids in. So stop bitching and maintain your centre.
I was there the other week and there were kids in the hall on bikes trying to skid on the pitch.
I would also suggest once they have replaced it they actually manage the centre better and stop such misuse. Or will our academy be blamed for that damage too?

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What if they can make more doing something else?

Pretty much spot on from OSB I'd say.

In truth the belief that I once held that the Higgs Trust was acting in the best interests of the club, has gone. If that ever was true, then clearly it's long since gone down the pan.

Conversely it's clear that SISU only ever set out to look after themselves. In itself though, that shouldn't stop a deal being done that suits both sides here.

It's ridiculous, imho, to suggest that Higgs should pay for something that might well end up seeing them out of pocket if the club moves on. Similarly, there's no reason SISU should stay at the Higgs centre if there's a better alternative. The intelligent thing to do here is to negotiate and see if there's a solution that benefits both sides, surely.

A longer rental deal and/or a contribution wouldn't seem a bad place to start - both sides will have to move from where they are now though, I'd guess. Might be better done outside of the public eye too, I suggest, and both sides might want to be a bit more professional regarding their habit of criticising the other in the local press.

Ashdown said:

Just that old boys walking football at your age I take it Grandaddy ??

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I am the oldest of players from 20 - 59.
Still fit, still competitive and usually knackered.
Indoors is non stop as the ball never goes out.

Fair play to you.

Why would you spend 80000 on something for someone who said within the next 4-5 years they are building their own.
Unless you make the 80k back over that 4-5 years.

I would say the biggest worry if I were higgs would be spending 80k of your money. On anything that involves a commitment from SISU even past 12 months.
Everything has s temporary feel at the moment. 12 month contracts for players. 4 month contracts for managers. Rolling contracts on academy and stadium.
I can see the concern to be fair.

dongonzalos said:

Why would you spend 80000 on something for someone who said within the next 4-5 years they are building their own.
Unless you make the 80k back over that 4-5 years.

I would say the biggest worry if I were higgs would be spending 80k of your money. On anything that involves a commitment from SISU even past 12 months.
Everything has s temporary feel at the moment. 12 month contracts for players. 4 month contracts for managers. Rolling contracts on academy and stadium.
I can see the concern to be fair.

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Its a fair point although one could argue that the rent paid over the last 10 years or so should cover and include maintenance costs like this.

wingy said:

Yeah let's all vote for him
PWKH pulling no punches there using It as a prompt to put the boot In

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Given the article it's in, that lacks class.

dongonzalos said:

Why would you spend 80000 on something for someone who said within the next 4-5 years they are building their own.
Unless you make the 80k back over that 4-5 years.

I would say the biggest worry if I were higgs would be spending 80k of your money. On anything that involves a commitment from SISU even past 12 months.
Everything has s temporary feel at the moment. 12 month contracts for players. 4 month contracts for managers. Rolling contracts on academy and stadium.
I can see the concern to be fair.

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Poised for a quick exit.

bigfatronssba said:

What if they can make more doing something else?

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I thought it was a charity?

Wasn't the land gifted to them by the council? It was previously a municipal sports ground.

Did you ask the club for a view on the story, Simon?

Deleted member 5849 said:

Given the article it's in, that lacks class.

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Hardly a surprise considering balloongate

Big enough for a new stadium, with the land next door maybe?

Out off interest does anyone know how much Higgs invested in the academy development in the first place? Also am I right in believing that the reason they committed to the development in the first place was so CCFC could obtain the academy status we currently enjoy?

fernandopartridge said:

I thought it was a charity?

Wasn't the land gifted to them by the council? It was previously a municipal sports ground.

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A charity has to make as much as it can through its commercial activities in order to fund it's charitable activities.

The charity has obviously decided that it's funding would be better spent elsewhere. Seen as so many on here were against higgs being involved in our club, you would think they would now be happy.

Also where the land come from is irrelevant.

fernandopartridge said:

Hardly a surprise considering balloongate

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True.

God help the country if some of the 'key figures' in this are typical of people in power. Seems every time they open their mouth they stuff up and manage to antagonise parties they should be trying to work with.

skybluetony176 said:

Out off interest does anyone know how much Higgs invested in the academy development in the first place? Also am I right in believing that the reason they committed to the development in the first place was so CCFC could obtain the academy status we currently enjoy?

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The build cost was 9.5m plus the cost of equipping the centre.

It was always intended as a base for the academy as far as I know but it wasn't its only function. The current Cat 2 academy status wasn't in existence I don't think when the Higgs Centre was opened in 2004, those academy classifications are more recent 2011 I believe ?