Questions and 'Answers' (1 Viewer)

TheRoyalScam · Jan 7, 2014

I remember giving odds on who would actually answer the questions:

It'll be interesting to see which parties reply in full - I'm laying odds:
ACL 1/4 odds on favourite
Otium 3/1
CCC 6/1
FL 100/1

S'pose three out of four ain't that bad - you just can't bet against Tim/Otium's 'PR' stance

fernandopartridge · Jan 7, 2014

chiefdave said:
Ownership of the freehold brings zero revenue until ACLs lease is up for renewal which is something like 40 years off. To get the revenues you need the leasehold which is currently ownered by ACL. Of course we had an option to buy 50% of that back which SISU never exercised instead putting an offer in to Higgs that despite being below the formula value was accepted only for SISU to never follow through. Hence why Higgs are taking action to recover legal costs from SISU.

SISU has quested the validity of ACL's lease and license....some might say it may indicate where they could be heading if they did get the freehold....

blueflint · Jan 7, 2014

grego_gee said:
A very sensitive comment - one that the trust would do well to note and emulate!

true but would;t be nice if SISU/otium replied like ACL and the FL

Hobo · Jan 7, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
SISU has quested the validity of ACL's lease and license....some might say it may indicate where they could be heading if they did get the freehold....

What another trip to the court room? That would be a surprise.

chiefdave · Jan 7, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
SISU has quested the validity of ACL's lease and license

On what grounds? They paid millions for it, surely they can't on the one hand be after everything seemingly on the cheap and on the other be complaining ACL got a good deal on buying the lease?!

fernandopartridge · Jan 7, 2014

chiefdave said:
On what grounds? They paid millions for it, surely they can't on the one hand be after everything seemingly on the cheap and on the other be complaining ACL got a good deal on buying the lease?!

The last issue of the Private Eye gave a bit of detail....the value was one point I think....

chiefdave · Jan 7, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
The last issue of the Private Eye gave a bit of detail....the value was one point I think....

Is it online anywhere? That seems very bizzare that they would question what ACL paid, if they paid more wouldn't the rent have needed to be even higher?!

covcity4life · Jan 7, 2014

if they want to be landlords they need to offer a sweeter deal it seems, stop being extortionate council/acl!

The Gentleman · Jan 7, 2014

covcity4life said:
if they want to be landlords they need to offer a sweeter deal it seems, stop being extortionate council/acl!

What's sweeter than free ?

James Smith · Jan 7, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
It's obvious with respect to the Ricoh that to own the Freehold, Sisu want a number of things,

1. To have all the revenues that the owning the Freehold of the Arena can bring.
2. Cut ACL out the picture.
3. Dependant to play with the figures as they (Sisu) such please.

RoboCCFC90 said:
With respect to the Ricoh I think they want it all, the hotel, the casino, the conference centre.. All of it.

They can have all the revenues from the Ricoh by just buying ACL and negotiating not demanding a longer lease. Owning the freehold doesn't give any additional revenue does it.

Huckerby · Jan 7, 2014

Just a quick question guys...I always seem to miss the big movements in the Judical Review situation...is there somewhere other than the telegraph site where I can keep up to date or get updates on it?

James Smith · Jan 7, 2014

blueflint said:
true but would;t be nice if SISU/otium replied like ACL and the FL

Nice? I might die from the shock!

shmmeee · Jan 7, 2014

AndreasB said:
"Please define clearly the reasons why the only solution is for CCFC to own the freehold of its stadium? Surely, it is income streams that are of prime importance to the football club? That doesn’t necessarily mean freehold ownership as such receipts could be secured under a leasehold arrangement."

Trust cant even ask a question without introducing pejoritive editorialising. Sisu are not going to answer your questions anymore and you know why. So why bother?

"Our" not "Your" they represent City fans. If you want a say too, join up. There is no agenda other than representing the views of their members.

That's not pejorative, it's to counter the standard (insufficient) answer Fisher has given ("we need access to additional revenues"). It was needed.

Stop trying so hard to put other fans down. How about you address the fact that the club refuses to talk to the largest official group of supporters rather than trying desperately to pick one or two holes in the other side.

Fucking ridiculous. I honestly can't see how anyone without an agenda can come to that view TBH.

shmmeee · Jan 7, 2014

The Gentleman said:
What's sweeter than free ?

Well as Sisu offered £-9m for the freehold, I imagine they want paying.

shmmeee · Jan 7, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
As previously said the leasehold has a 40 year life on it, would ACL sell it, is there's to sell?

If the council can wind up ACL for a freehold sale (Fishers expectation) why not for a leasehold?

(Note: i don't think they can actually wind it up. I'd imagine Higgs/Compass would have something to say.)

chiefdave · Jan 7, 2014

shmmeee said:
If the council can wind up ACL for a freehold sale (Fishers expectation) why not for a leasehold?

(Note: i don't think they can actually wind it up. I'd imagine Higgs/Compass would have something to say.)

ACL paid £21m for a 50 year lease back in 2006 didn't they? So at the end of this season the lease will have 41 years left to run. If you were to 'wind up' ACL wouldn't you need to repay them on a pro rata basis, so a repayment of £17.22m (that's just the lease, it may well be the more senior staff have 12 month leave periods so would need a years salary and of course any payment to compass to buy back their share of the F&B which I assume runs to the end of ACLs lease). While on the council side of it, assuming it doesn't mean any taxpayers money was lost, I would suspect you could somehow use the £14 loan owed by ACL to cancel out the balance of the lease but Higgs would still need reimbursing, don't see why they should lose money.

But if you're going to do that you may as well buy Higgs share and then pay off the loan in return for taking ownership of the councils 50% then run on with a new lease on a peppercorn rent.

At the end of the day if SISU wanted the lease then at the very least they should have made an attempt to takeover ACL rather than try and put them out of business.

shmmeee · Jan 7, 2014

chiefdave said:
ACL paid £21m for a 50 year lease back in 2006 didn't they? So at the end of this season the lease will have 41 years left to run. If you were to 'wind up' ACL wouldn't you need to repay them on a pro rata basis, so a repayment of £17.22m (that's just the lease, it may well be the more senior staff have 12 month leave periods so would need a years salary and of course any payment to compass to buy back their share of the F&B which I assume runs to the end of ACLs lease). While on the council side of it, assuming it doesn't mean any taxpayers money was lost, I would suspect you could somehow use the £14 loan owed by ACL to cancel out the balance of the lease but Higgs would still need reimbursing, don't see why they should lose money.

But if you're going to do that you may as well buy Higgs share and then pay off the loan in return for taking ownership of the councils 50% then run on with a new lease on a peppercorn rent.

At the end of the day if SISU wanted the lease then at the very least they should have made an attempt to takeover ACL rather than try and put them out of business.

I agree completely. Like so much Fisher says I have a feeling he knows what he proposes is impractical if not impossible, but a certain few will eat it up as evidence the council are blocking a deal.

The Prefect · Jan 7, 2014

The Gentleman said:
If that is the case, what other revenue streams would you think they are taking about then ?

Freehold gain.

This can be written into the balance sheet of the freehold owning company following a 'revaluation' of the asset.

James Smith · Jan 7, 2014

The Prefect said:
Freehold gain.

This can be written into the balance sheet of the freehold owning company following a 'revaluation' of the asset.

Is that a revenue stream or just a one off addition to the balance sheet? Also it doesn't benefit our club just the property company holding the Arena.

Sky Blue Harry H · Jan 7, 2014

thaiskyblue said:
what like, "tell us the truth ", that would be a good start.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...X73EQCDStxwmvOZyJaOd2dw&bvm=bv.58187178,d.ZGU

'Hurry up Harry, come on' .............aah, takes me back:guitar2::guitar2:

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