Ray on the phone in ! (8 Viewers)

rupert_bear · Nov 27, 2016

Listened to the phone in last night and the impassioned call by someone called Ray who represents the Diamond club about these SCG meetings how they are conducted, the compiling and massaging of the minutes, "e mail harassment days after attending these meetings were to say the least an eye opener was pushed by Stuart Linnell to say who it was sending these e mails but diplomatically I thought didn't really specify. This Ray fellow said he has been a season ticket holder for 47 years in fact said he and his wife have jointly supported City 109 years so I have to respect what he said. The minutes statement were the most concerning for me as it suggests the SCG meeting minutes which gets put on here are not accurate.
it is well worth listening to if able.

Garryb80 · Nov 27, 2016

He deserves credit purely for shutting Linnell up for a few minutes.

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT · Nov 27, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Listened to the phone in last night and the impassioned call by someone called Ray who represents the Diamond club about these SCG meetings how they are conducted, the compiling and massaging of the minutes, "e mail harassment days after attending these meetings were to say the least an eye opener was pushed by Stuart Linnell to say who it was sending these e mails but diplomatically I thought didn't really specify. This Ray fellow said he has been a season ticket holder for 47 years in fact said he and his wife have jointly supported City 109 years so I have to respect what he said. The minutes statement were the most concerning for me as it suggests the SCG meeting minutes which gets put on here are not accurate.
it is well worth listening to if able.

We've just had one Dictator die in Cuba , we just need the Dictator to die in the Football Club .

chiefdave · Nov 27, 2016

Maybe the Trust could make a comment on what was said. They are after all supposed to represent us on the SCG. Although if what was said on the phone in is correct it does raise questions about those on the SCG who have gone along with this without making public comment.

Bob Latchford · Nov 27, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Listened to the phone in last night and the impassioned call by someone called Ray who represents the Diamond club about these SCG meetings how they are conducted, the compiling and massaging of the minutes, "e mail harassment days after attending these meetings were to say the least an eye opener was pushed by Stuart Linnell to say who it was sending these e mails but diplomatically I thought didn't really specify. This Ray fellow said he has been a season ticket holder for 47 years in fact said he and his wife have jointly supported City 109 years so I have to respect what he said. The minutes statement were the most concerning for me as it suggests the SCG meeting minutes which gets put on here are not accurate.
it is well worth listening to if able.

He also stated if anything is said against the club , he gets shouted down ! nasty emails etc !! remind you of anywhere ?!?!

tisza · Nov 27, 2016

people on the SCG don't tend to rock the boat as. they are there by invitation only and very much on the club's terms.

Otis · Nov 27, 2016

tisza said:
people on the SCG don't tend to rock the boat as. they are there by invitation only and very much on the club's terms.

Like Blofeld inviting James Bond as a guest to his lair.

tisza · Nov 27, 2016

Bob Latchford said:
He also stated if anything is said against the club , he gets shouted down ! nasty emails etc !! remind you of anywhere ?!?!

corbyn's new labour party.

rupert_bear · Nov 27, 2016

I think it is fairly common knowledge that the SCG wasn't let's say completely representative of the whole of the fans and also seemed a bit of a selective group. It's not clear if the new Trust chairman will be allowed into this SCG, that would be alarming. But as said for me the most alarming thing from that phone call was the disclosure that the minutes were massaged AND had to be vetted by the club before being released which basically suggests the minutes often put on here are inaccurate.

tisza · Nov 27, 2016

wasn't there a fuss recently with certain SCG members throwing a wobbly about an SBT rep on the SCG using unedited or unapproved info from a meeting?

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 27, 2016

chiefdave said:
it does raise questions about those on the SCG who have gone along with this without making public comment.

Yeah that would surprise me. Taking trust reps out the equation, there are a couple others who aren't exactly known for being passive. I can only assume the 'true and fair' would be ratified by majority, in that case?

Grendel · Nov 27, 2016

The SCG is irrelevant - in fact if it wasn't for this forum I'd never have heard of them.

Minutes always need approval before being released that's not actually a big deal.

The SCG is pointless. If this Strange fellow wants to behave like the clubs press mouthpiece that's up to him.

Is Jonathan Strange the author of Keith Houchens biography?

rupert_bear · Nov 27, 2016

Basically it makes SCG minutes put on here not fit for purpose, so where else other than this website are these SCG meetings put for the ordinary fan to read ?

Bob Latchford · Nov 27, 2016

rupert_bear said:
I think it is fairly common knowledge that the SCG wasn't let's say completely representative of the whole of the fans and also seemed a bit of a selective group. It's not clear if the new Trust chairman will be allowed into this SCG, that would be alarming. But as said for me the most alarming thing from that phone call was the disclosure that the minutes were massaged AND had to be vetted by the club before being released which basically suggests the minutes often put on here are inaccurate.

I suggest you may well be correct !

torchomatic · Nov 27, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Basically it makes SCG minutes put on here not fit for purpose, so where else other than this website are these SCG meetings put for the ordinary fan to read ?

They're on the official site, aren't they?

rupert_bear · Nov 27, 2016

I agree the SCG is pointless and having listened to this Ray fellow perhaps it shouldn't be given the oxygen of publicity on here which is the best way of nullifying it.

skybluetony176 · Nov 27, 2016

chiefdave said:
Maybe the Trust could make a comment on what was said. They are after all supposed to represent us on the SCG. Although if what was said on the phone in is correct it does raise questions about those on the SCG who have gone along with this without making public comment.

The trust can't say shit without getting lambasted on the SCG or on here. How would this end up any different. Too many fans don't have their eyes on the prize especially on here. They'd rather nit pick the trust, the CT or whoever than address what's going very very wrong within the club. Rays revelations on phone in is just another example of how the club is rotten from top to bottom and that is only happening because of SISU. Time to stop worrying about nonsense like telegraph spin and what certain supporters political leanings are. If we can't come together to attack the cancer in the club that's killing it the club is truly fucked. They shouldn't be given a free pass with silence and it won't make any difference attitude. We'll end up with the club we deserve if we do.

NortonSkyBlue · Nov 27, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
The trust can't say shit without getting lambasted on the SCG or on here. How would this end up any different. Too many fans don't have their eyes on the prize especially on here. They'd rather nit pick the trust, the CT or whoever than address what's going very very wrong within the club. Rays revelations on phone in is just another example of how the club is rotten from top to bottom and that is only happening because of SISU. Time to stop worrying about nonsense like telegraph spin and what certain supporters political leanings are. If we can't come together to attack the cancer in the club that's killing it the club is truly fucked. They shouldn't be given a free pass with silence and it won't make any difference attitude. We'll end up with the club we deserve if we do.

Sadly we have ended up with the club we certainly don't derserve.......

ccfctommy · Nov 27, 2016

Grendel said:
The SCG is irrelevant - in fact if it wasn't for this forum I'd never have heard of them.

Minutes always need approval before being released that's not actually a big deal.

The SCG is pointless. If this Strange fellow wants to behave like the clubs press mouthpiece that's up to him.

Is Jonathan Strange the author of Keith Houchens biography?

Yes he is. Hr isnt even head of London Supporters Club no more so I really dont get who he is representing.

Otis · Nov 27, 2016

chiefdave said:
Maybe the Trust could make a comment on what was said. They are after all supposed to represent us on the SCG. Although if what was said on the phone in is correct it does raise questions about those on the SCG who have gone along with this without making public comment.

Well yep.

If I were in the SCG and that was happening, I would have been secretly whistleblowing from the off.

It's outrageous if minutes are being altered and don't reflect what actually happened in the meeting.

oldskyblue58 · Nov 27, 2016

I thought it was common knowledge that the club had final say on the minutes it has been mentioned often before on this forum, it is partly why it takes so long for them to be published ................... which must lead to the situation that the minutes can not be a full and proper record of what was said if things are being omitted/altered ............ and therefore can not be fully relied upon ............ which renders them useless ............ pretty much like the SCG as a whole imo. The idea of the SCG is good but it has been hijacked by ego, self interest and to use a popular word, spin. It was never meant to be about strategic thinking or the mouth piece for the club or its directors.

Does the Trust challenge things at the meetings? I am sure they do, but we wont be able to tell because the minutes are not a proper record

If something can not be reported in the minutes then don't say it, if questions or challenges are made by fans representatives (be it for themselves or a particular group) they must be included in the minutes, if there are questions then they should not be vetted, brushed off or ignored, because these are concerns the fans have ....... the primary purpose of the SCG being the place where match day experience thoughts/opinions/concerns are voiced to the club. Doesn't seem to be working does it

Can someone point to something important/anything that the SCG has achieved?

torchomatic · Nov 27, 2016

Otis said:
Well yep.

If I were in the SCG and that was happening, I would have been secretly whistleblowing from the off.

It's outrageous if minutes are being altered and don't reflect what actually happened in the meeting.

If that's the case which it probably is then why haven't the Trust ever mentioned it?

SkyBlueSid · Nov 27, 2016

ccfctommy said:
Yes he is. Hr isnt even head of London Supporters Club no more so I really dont get who he is representing.

I believe he was chairman of the London Supporters but had a big fallout with them and threw his toys out of the pram because the CCLSC were critical of SISU. He is one of a few SISU apologists and brown-noses, like that Garlick woman. I do wonder what possesses them to support that mob, unless they are being given some incentives along the line somewhere. The SCG is a complete waste of time as it has no credibility whatsoever and represents nobody.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Nov 27, 2016

torchomatic said:
If that's the case which it probably is then why haven't the Trust ever mentioned it?

Torch all this has been on here plenty of times but it's been lost amongst all the Trust bashing. As an aside I'm losing all interest in the SCG Trust etc I basically just go to the matches now. Also I'm pretty much losing interest with the matches as well

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 27, 2016

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Torch all this has been on here plenty of times but it's been lost amongst all the Trust bashing. As an aside I'm losing all interest in the SCG Trust etc I basically just go to the matches now. Also I'm pretty much losing interest with the matches as well

Hell, the politics is more unpredictable and more exciting than the matches half the time

oldskyblue58 · Nov 27, 2016

As I understand it the SCG has a meeting where detailed minutes are taken, the minutes are then circulated to those are members for approval and amendment, any comment is embargoed until the minutes are published on the CCFC website after approval by those in charge at the club. As I also understand it challenges have been made to contents by the Trust, am guessing causing delays, but it is the club led by TF that has final say as to content.

So before this thread gets derailed and concentrates on deficiencies in the Trust just think about the amount of criticism dished out by the Club and other members of the SCG in its direction and ask how would you deal with it. Hard to be heard with a whole room pointing at you about nonsense that doesn't concern them, targeted deflection. So keep it about the SCG and those that lead that body and its agenda

The SCG was not just down to Paul Fletcher, it was a Trust idea supported by the London Supporters Group, basically it has been hijacked from its original purpose, manipulated, suited to certain purposes and egos and totally devalued

Wheelfass · Nov 27, 2016

I've just listened to the Sky Blues Phone on Radio Player.
Fair play to Ray for revealing some of the methods employed within the SCG's meetings and in particular the way that the minutes are formulated. It is extremely disconcerting to hear that following meetings at which he has offered a critical view towards the clubs owners that he himself would be lambasted via emails. He even went on to say that he expected to receive several more emails after his public revelations on CWR.
I wonder if Ray could make some of those emails public and get them posted up on here.
Just a thought.

Terry Gibson's perm · Nov 27, 2016

Wheelfass said:
I've just listened to the Sky Blues Phone on Radio Player.
Fair play to Ray for revealing some of the methods employed within the SCG's meetings and in particular the way that the minutes are formulated. It is extremely disconcerting to hear that following meetings at which he has offered a critical view towards the clubs owners that he himself would be lambasted by the SCG via emails. He even went on to say that he expected to receive several more emails from them after his public revelations on CWR.
I wonder if it Ray could make some of those emails public and get them posted up on here.
Just a thought.

Now getting them public seems a great idea, this group needs forcing out into the open or be disbanded.

skyblueinBaku · Nov 27, 2016

It seems to me that the censoring of the SCG minutes is redolent of The Ministry Of Truth in Orwell's '1984'. Is that what the SCG and the club have become?

Otis · Nov 27, 2016

torchomatic said:
If that's the case which it probably is then why haven't the Trust ever mentioned it?

Yep. Find that baffling.

Captain Dart · Nov 27, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Listened to the phone in last night and the impassioned call by someone called Ray who represents the Diamond club about these SCG meetings how they are conducted, the compiling and massaging of the minutes, "e mail harassment days after attending these meetings were to say the least an eye opener was pushed by Stuart Linnell to say who it was sending these e mails but diplomatically I thought didn't really specify. This Ray fellow said he has been a season ticket holder for 47 years in fact said he and his wife have jointly supported City 109 years so I have to respect what he said. The minutes statement were the most concerning for me as it suggests the SCG meeting minutes which gets put on here are not accurate.
it is well worth listening to if able.

Just having a listen now. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04fkwmr

skybluetony176 · Nov 27, 2016

Is there any scenario where the trust can win with some? Speak out and get lambasted as being confrontational on here, don't speak out and get lambasted on here for not being confrontational.

trondegilsoltvedt97 · Nov 27, 2016

I'd be surprised if the trust, Ray etc would keep going each month if they thought the minutes were being chopped and changed beyond recognition. In my experience in business, draft minutes are often sent around to attendees before circulated wider - is this what he means by changed by the club?

From the minutes, he is fairly critical of the club and that is kept in and answered to an extent.

For example, from the September minutes:

RS highlighted that in the last meeting it was stated that Mowbray would have the same budget as last year; but it seems he has not received any of the James Maddison transfer money and that Turnbull was acquired with the money from the Vincelot sale. The manager is having to rely on free transfers, loans – and the academy kids who shouldn’t have to play week in, week out. RS feels the manager doesn’t have the tools to work with and feels the budget is too low.

TF responded to this by saying the club has to be self-sustainable and we need to keep it going and moving forward, without putting ourselves in a dangerous financial position. The playing budget is not in the 10% for the league but it is what it can be. We would love to have a big budget but we don’t have the revenues to match the costs. We do what we can with the means we have got. We have the disadvantage of not owning our own stadium and our only meaningful revenue coming from ticketing and retail. TF has discussed the situation with Mowbray. The first team are currently underperforming; this is deeply disappointing. It is felt they should be doing better. There has been an impact due to inflation in football players’ wages, average players are on high wages, and also the change in the loan system. We have lost players (Fleck and Cole) who we were unable to keep. There also have been players we sold or released, which were football decisions, not financial. The board trust the management to make the right decisions.

oldskyblue58 · Nov 27, 2016

isn't the point of what he says not what is in the minutes but what isn't and the pressure he feels he is under to toe the party line.

Captain Dart · Nov 27, 2016

trondegilsoltvedt97 said:
I'd be surprised if the trust, Ray etc would keep going each month if they thought the minutes were being chopped and changed beyond recognition. In my experience in business, draft minutes are often sent around to attendees before circulated wider - is this what he means by changed by the club?

To summarise what Ray said:
1) Not every point made gets into the minutes.
2) Anyone who criticises the club gets shouted down and subsequently receives emails criticising them for their attitude.
3) Only Ray and the members of the SBT dare speak out.

Ray on the phone in ! (8 Viewers)

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