Refugees welcome? (2 Viewers)

ecky · Sep 4, 2015

They are in Hungary a safe country but won't register with the authorities and refuse to go to refuge camps
Why have they all headed for Europe why not other middle eastern and North African countries
The people who have drowned have paid thousands to leave on boats why not file for assylum through the correct channels?
Genuine assylum seekers need help but no one knows who half these young men are, they could be Isis or any terrorist group??
Before the heart strings are pulled we need to have some serious questions asked and answered

magic82ball · Sep 4, 2015

Samo said:
I think we could 'survive' quite nicely whist being a lot less selfish.

Yet we don't change a thing, just preach

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shmmeee · Sep 4, 2015

magic82ball said:
As am i, were all selfish beings, we wouldn't survive if we weren't.
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What backwards bollocks. We got so far as a species because we're social. We are not all selfish beings. The selfish gene is discredited and no reasonable scientist thinks that. In fact selfishness if only possible because of the good grace of others. In a smaller society the selfish would be outcast.

ajsccfc · Sep 4, 2015

ecky said:
Why have they all headed for Europe why not other middle eastern and North African countries

If you were trying to flee Brummies you'd go further than Wolverhampton.

shmmeee · Sep 4, 2015

magic82ball said:
Yet we don't change a thing, just preach

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What would you change?

Nick · Sep 4, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
OK. It's the opposite of doing less or nothing. Which is pretty much where we as a nation have been until now. A change in rhetoric from our Goverment is a good start but action is now needed. We need to be following the example set not just by the German goverment but institutions and the people also. It's embarissing the atitude of people in this country, it's only the last day or so that the media has stopped calling them immigrants and started calling them what they are, refugees. I don't understand why people are so abrasive to the idea of helping people in need. Hiding behind excuses like we're full, bollocks, the refugee camps in Turkey are full. we have enough issue's of our own, bollocks, in camparison we have no issue's. I could go on and on with the list of inept excuses.

That still doesn't say how we should help them though and what action? This is what I am trying to get at.

I am not saying don't help them.

All of this "spare room" stuff is silly. I have a 5 year old daughter, who in their right mind is going to invite random people to come and stay in their house near their children? Maybe it is just me.

Samo · Sep 4, 2015

magic82ball said:
Yet we don't change a thing, just preach

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My words are not hollow... I will happily pay my share to keep those people here. But don't worry it will be optional and you can keep your BBQ and your views of the greenbelt.

covcity4life · Sep 4, 2015

We are going around in circles now nit everyone is gonna agree

Footy forum should go back to football now

WestEndAgro · Sep 4, 2015

Fuck me, stop posting all this we should do this, we should do that crap, if you are genuinely bothered fuck off and do something ......ah thought not just hot air from the usual suspects who's collective efforts will amount to fuck all.

Harry Krishner · Sep 4, 2015

Samo said:
My words are not hollow... I will happily pay my share to keep those people here. But don't worry it will be optional and you can keep your BBQ and your views of the greenbelt.

Twat or troll? Place your bets.

Samo · Sep 4, 2015

shmmeee said:
What backwards bollocks. We got so far as a species because we're social. We are not all selfish beings. The selfish gene is discredited and no reasonable scientist thinks that. In fact selfishness if only possible because of the good grace of others. In a smaller society the selfish would be outcast.

Convenient bollocks though. Rather than just admit to being selfish, 'we' are all selfish. Rather than admit to doing nothing, 'we' all do nothing.

skybluetony176 · Sep 4, 2015

Nick said:
That still doesn't say how we should help them though and what action? This is what I am trying to get at.

I am not saying don't help them.

All of this "spare room" stuff is silly. I have a 5 year old daughter, who in their right mind is going to invite random people to come and stay in their house near their children? Maybe it is just me.

Taking refugees straight from the camps is a positive move (as announced by David Cameron today) so they avoid the dangerous journey across the med. This is a good move by the Mayor of Bristol http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-34150371 . Sure not everyone is going to be able to do it, I myself dont have the ability to take an entire family in, but a child or two on their own yes and there are plenty or even a mother with a child. There is a huge ammount of widows with children who need homes.

Nick · Sep 4, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
Taking refugees straight from the camps is a positive move (as announced by David Cameron today) so they avoid the dangerous journey across the med. This is a good move by the Mayor of Bristol http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-34150371 . Sure not everyone is going to be able to do it, I myself dont have the ability to take an entire family in, but a child or two on their own yes and there are plenty or even a mother with a child. There is a huge ammount of widows with children who need homes.

If I lived alone then I'd consider it. Really not sure about moving in strangers with a young family.

I am sure lonely old men will be sure to help (it can be dangerous both ways too!)

Moff · Sep 4, 2015

Samo said:
Why, what difference does it make? Are you going to spit the dummy if not everyone shares nicely? Do you think Asia is as able to help? Do you not think the onus should be on the wealthiest countries in the world?

You mean like the Gulf states.

Just an observation but why arent countries such as saudi, Qatar, UAE etc, the cash rich states trying to help.
They arent and like Europe they should.

skybluetony176 · Sep 4, 2015

Nick said:
If I lived alone then I'd consider it. Really not sure about moving in strangers with a young family.

I am sure lonely old men will be sure to help (it can be dangerous both ways too!)

Even a single child? Not saying you should. At the end of the day it's your family and you make the decisions for them but surely it would be worthy of consideration?

skybluetony176 · Sep 4, 2015

Moff said:
You mean like the Gulf states.

Just an observation but why arent countries such as saudi, Qatar, UAE etc, the cash rich states trying to help.
They arent and like Europe they should.

Why does what others are or aren't doing be a consideration in what we do?

Nick · Sep 4, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
Even a single child? Not saying you should. At the end of the day it's your family and you make the decisions for them but surely it would be worthy of consideration?

Probably not if I'm honest, it would depends how it works. I am still not sure about letting a random child come and live with my daughter. That's just me though.

However, if for example it was a child we knew already and they were made homeless or needed help then I would. It is just the trust thing. If a family were housed down the road, I'd be the first to send toys, clothes etc to them. I think that would be more of a gesture, however I always worry about the line where it becomes patronising.

What I am confused about is if there is enough room and housing for them, why are people asking others to house them?

Moff · Sep 4, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
Why does what others are or aren't doing be a consideration in what we do?

Use your brain Tony, Samo raised a question about the wealthiest countrys helping, I responded to it and stated that they should be helping too. I didnt say it should be a consideration, but you just twist away.

skybluetony176 · Sep 4, 2015

Moff said:
Use your brain Tony, Samo raised a question about the wealthiest countrys helping, I responded to it and stated that they should be helping too. I didnt say it should be a consideration, but you just twist away.

Appologies. No twisting just misunderstood what you saying.

KG7 · Sep 4, 2015

Harry Krishner said:
No refugees.

This is not a European problem, although it has been turned into one by picking them up in the Med and dumping them in Greece- the EU country least able to deal with it. They should have been towed back to north Africa from the beginning- dumping them in Greece/Italy is merely encouraging more to come. Hard- but the only solution likely to work long-term.

Stop patronising the Arabs- they aren't idiots, and it's about time they sorted their own problems out.

KG7- please do not fly your ill-conceived banner- you feel so bad about it, you go out and join Peshmerga and fight IS.

Hi Harry, what banner? The refugees welcome banner? I'm a lover not a fighter.

lifeskyblue · Sep 4, 2015

The issue for me is that we should as a group of wealthy countries look at the root cause of all this migration. We have problems in maternally caused by the financial crisis...Greece a lot worse than us but most countries in Europe been through the wringer. We are cutting benefits to people who have/may have already contributed to the system yet prepared to spend more on education/health etc for newcomers. I'm not saying that is wrong but there is an argument to be had about how the infrastructure in some areas will be maintained. Why have many Arab/African countries kept quiet and not offered to take any refugees??? Perhaps because the refugees do not follow the same path of Islam as those fleeing Syria. No easy answers but politicians across the world need to do something. Just doing nothing is not the answer but taking in refugees with no plans to stop/reverse the crisis will lead ultimately to social unrest on a large scale.

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Grendel · Sep 4, 2015

Harry Krishner said:
No refugees.

This is not a European problem, although it has been turned into one by picking them up in the Med and dumping them in Greece- the EU country least able to deal with it. They should have been towed back to north Africa from the beginning- dumping them in Greece/Italy is merely encouraging more to come. Hard- but the only solution likely to work long-term.

Stop patronising the Arabs- they aren't idiots, and it's about time they sorted their own problems out.

KG7- please do not fly your ill-conceived banner- you feel so bad about it, you go out and join Peshmerga and fight IS.

Blimey Nick Griffin has rolled into town now.

Johnnythespider · Sep 4, 2015

ecky said:
They are in Hungary a safe country but won't register with the authorities and refuse to go to refuge camps
Why have they all headed for Europe why not other middle eastern and North African countries
The people who have drowned have paid thousands to leave on boats why not file for assylum through the correct channels?
Genuine assylum seekers need help but no one knows who half these young men are, they could be Isis or any terrorist group??
Before the heart strings are pulled we need to have some serious questions asked and answered

As you can see 97% of them have registered in just those countries, the numbers heading for Europe are relatively small.

ccfc1234 · Sep 4, 2015

Johnnythespider said:
As you can see 97% of them have registered in just those countries, the numbers heading for Europe are relatively small.

Its tragic so many people are fleeing tyrannical dictators in the world while nations who have created this mess stand by and watch the tide of human misery flow. How many we take for me is not the important question it's how many will go back and rebuild their homeland and lives once the conflict ends.

We live in a world where the most volatile counties have the fastest growing populations. If we always allow people fleeing conflict indefinite leave to remain this will be unsustainable for Europe.

magic82ball · Sep 4, 2015

shmmeee said:
What backwards bollocks. We got so far as a species because we're social. We are not all selfish beings. The selfish gene is discredited and no reasonable scientist thinks that. In fact selfishness if only possible because of the good grace of others. In a smaller society the selfish would be outcast.

My dear fellow, you miss understand me. I don't mean you don't help an old lady to cross the road or lend a mate a tenner down the pub. I am talking real things, where you have to put yourself out. Like kaka donating 50% of his salary to his church his whole career, missionaries in war torn countries. I assume you don't do any of this so in
which case you selfishly look after yourself and family, maybe spend a couple of grand on a holiday each year, you don't think that is "selfish"?

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Sick Boy · Sep 4, 2015

magic82ball said:
There is no choice sick boy, we have an obligation to help regardless of our concerns.

If by what you say, you mean you are happy for the UK to be watered down in terms of health service, schooling etc. to make it a more 'equal' world then that is were we differ. Inequality I would imagine doesn't bother you to greatly either I would assume unless you donate a vast portion of your salary each month to the less fortunate? Otherwise it's just words mate. No action.

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Quite the opposite and full of assumptions. I recently volunteered to work with asylum seekers one night a week and I donate a 3 figure sum to charity a month.

Sick Boy · Sep 4, 2015

Harry Krishner said:
No refugees.

This is not a European problem, although it has been turned into one by picking them up in the Med and dumping them in Greece- the EU country least able to deal with it. They should have been towed back to north Africa from the beginning- dumping them in Greece/Italy is merely encouraging more to come. Hard- but the only solution likely to work long-term.

Stop patronising the Arabs- they aren't idiots, and it's about time they sorted their own problems out.

KG7- please do not fly your ill-conceived banner- you feel so bad about it, you go out and join Peshmerga and fight IS.

I'd much rather deport the racists like you and let in double the number of refugees.

Covstu · Sep 4, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
On a scale of 1-10 what is the likelihood of that ever happening? I'm going for -10

Something similar happens in Glasgow every old firm game so not completely unbelievable.....

Covstu · Sep 4, 2015

Nick said:
If I lived alone then I'd consider it. Really not sure about moving in strangers with a young family.

I am sure lonely old men will be sure to help (it can be dangerous both ways too!)

Would they have to pay bedroom tax?

Covstu · Sep 4, 2015

Nick said:
Probably not if I'm honest, it would depends how it works. I am still not sure about letting a random child come and live with my daughter. That's just me though.

However, if for example it was a child we knew already and they were made homeless or needed help then I would. It is just the trust thing. If a family were housed down the road, I'd be the first to send toys, clothes etc to them. I think that would be more of a gesture, however I always worry about the line where it becomes patronising.

What I am confused about is if there is enough room and housing for them, why are people asking others to house them?

Surely a safeguarding issue for people taking in young children?

magic82ball · Sep 4, 2015

Sick Boy said:
Quite the opposite and full of assumptions. I recently volunteered to work with asylum seekers one night a week and I donate a 3 figure sum to charity a month.

Very good of you and should be acknowledged as such, unfortunately as you will know then your in a very small minority prepared to do so.

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ecky · Sep 4, 2015

http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=344_1441354394

chiefdave · Sep 4, 2015

martcov said:
Are these at Calais just the Syrians?

No not just Syrians. Can't stand Owen Jones but this article he wrote about Calais is worth a read:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...alks-calais-migrants-they-forget-we-are-human

Moff · Sep 4, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
Appologies. No twisting just misunderstood what you saying.

Fair enough Tony. Sorry if I came across a bit sharp, it wasnt meant to be.

chiefdave · Sep 4, 2015

I think some sections of the press are deliberately using language such as immigrants to group everyone together when there are really very distinct groups.

You've got European migrants coming in under European freedom of movement. That's not going to stop unless we leave Europe or their is a drastic change to European law.

Then you've got economic migrants, some trying to enter legally, some illegally, who are coming here as they think they will have a better life.

Neither of those groups are anything to do with the Syrian refugees. They are people fleeing a terrible civil war and need our help. Its a complete myth that they are all trying to get to Europe or the UK.

Amnesty International said:
3.8 million refugees from Syria (95 per cent) are in just five countries Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq and Egypt:

Lebanon hosts 1.1 million refugees registered with UNHCR, which amounts to around 26 per cent of the country’s population

Jordan hosts 618,615 registered refugees, which amounts to 9.8 per cent of the population

Turkey hosts 1.6 million refugees, which amounts to 2.4 per cent of the population

Iraq hosts 225,373 registered refugees, which amounts to 0.67 per cent of the population

Egypt 142,543 registered refugees, which amounts to 0.17 per cent of the population

Around 190,000 people have been killed and 10.8 million people are in urgent need of humanitarian assistance inside Syria

More than 10 million Syrians, or 45 per cent of the country’s population has been displaced

Of those, 6.5 million are displaced within Syria and approximately 4 million have sought refuge in other countries.

For those that think 'we do our bit' we really don't. We lag way behind other European countries

note that is applications, we have one of the highest rejection rates in Europe so you have to factor that in as well.

There's no easy solution. Ideally you would bring an end to the civil war in Syria, a war many would argue we played a part in starting. On the basis you can't do that then a Europe wide, if not world wide, solution to the refugee issue has to come into play. It can't be left up to a handful of countries to deal with the problem. My feeling is the refugees need to be processed and allocated to a particular country a lot closer to home to avoid the dangerous journeys they are undertaking.

Of course there is then the issue of how to fund action and what to do with them when they arrive. These are not people expecting to come over and live a nice life on benefits in a free house. We managed to take hundreds of thousands in WW1 and WW2 so why can't we now? In all likelihood if we took a large number you'd be looking at creating refugee camps. Would the EU fund it or would we be expected to fund it ourselves? Are countries like the US going to contribute to the cost?

And of course remember the expectation would be that at some point, when the civil war ends, they would return to their own country.

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