Reid; Adams; Dowie; Coleman; Boothroyd (1 Viewer)

Thorn in... :blue:

Coleman had loadsa dosh at Fulham: Van Der Saar was the highes paid keeper in the Prem at the time.

Boothroyd had Young and King-too good for this division at the time-and 6 or 7 other superb Championship players. He was well and truly found out at Colchester.

In general, the achievements of that lot since leaving us speak for themselves. They've done nothing of any consequence bar commentating on TV. I see Dowie was there today to document our demise for Soccer Saturday...

agreed,

NONE have gone onto anything

Dowie had a massive smile on his face at the match !!

To be fair Dowie did exceptionally well at Palace getting them promoted. Reid was successful for most his time at Man City and Sunderland. Yes, Boothroyd had a good team at Watford but he still got them promoted. Coleman was a qualified success at Fulham. We appear to have a reverse Midas touch when it comes to managers. I think it stems from a poverty of ambition and a culture of mediocrity which sadly afflicts the city of Coventry as well as the football club.

Thought Dowie did very well for us, and hardly a groundswell of opinion from the fans calling for his head.

Another Ranson mistake.

Remember when we used to score goals?

lordsummerisle said:

Thought Dowie did very well for us, and hardly a groundswell of opinion from the fans calling for his head.

Another Ranson mistake.

Remember when we used to score goals?

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To be fair the players always "put a shift in" for him.

It's a funny old game.

Look at Alan Pardew. Sacked at Charlton and Southampton. Now look at him.

The thing with Dowie was he brought alot of crap players into the squad.
Always remember a palace fan talking on CWR before we played them and he was saying the same.

I actually liked Adams! never recovered From the sale of Macca!!!

gaz said:

The thing with Dowie was he brought alot of crap players into the squad.
Always remember a palace fan talking on CWR before we played them and he was saying the same.

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So why, with all of Dowies "deadwood" gone, and with apparently so much more superior players since, have successive managers not managed to get as good results as Dowie achieved?

Think you're actually recommending Dowie without realising it.

I just hope we don't add Oggy to that list. I'm dreading the day we give him "a go". Thorn is still alright by me.

lordsummerisle said:

So why, with all of Dowies "deadwood" gone, and with apparently so much more superior players since, have successive managers not managed to get as good results as Dowie achieved?

Think you're actually recommending Dowie without realising it.

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Nope, I'm quite sure what I'm saying is Dowie was a load of bollocks tbf.

They were all 200x the manager thorn will ever be, I hope his managerial carer is over quick time!

I'd have dowie back tomorrow!

I thought Dowie was a good manager for us and if he'd had the funds Coleman was given he'd have done a better job.

leicesterarenotourrivals said:

They were all 200x the manager thorn will ever be, I hope his managerial carer is over quick time!

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Why don't you change your user name to TheClown. It would be more apt.

Coleman spent something like £5m with us. Only Strachan had more cash.

Only Bryan Richardson had more cash.

shmmeee said:

Coleman spent something like £5m with us. Only Strachan had more cash.

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Was Micky Adams that bad? We did finish eigth in the league under him.

ccfctommy said:

Was Micky Adams that bad? We did finish eigth in the league under him.

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We had a quality front four of Sheff, Dele, John and Scowcroft that year.

The wheel's came off the season after, with the sale of sheff - he brought in Kyle and McKenzie

stupot07 said:

We had a quality front four of Sheff, Dele, John and Scowcroft that year.

The wheel's came off the season after, with the sale of sheff - he brought in Kyle and McKenzie

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And we were going nowhere fast until a certain Mr Wise arrived.

lordsummerisle said:

Thought Dowie did very well for us, and hardly a groundswell of opinion from the fans calling for his head. Another Ranson mistake.

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Dowie was sacked at the right time. From mid November to late February City lost 10 out of 15, took 11 points from 45, and had a goal difference of -12 for the period. Extrapolate those results over the course of a season and you're looking at 33 points - easily last in the table. The team was in freefall. Relegation was a real threat with that long-term form, 19th position, and only a final third of the season to come.

The only question to ask is whether or not Dowie had more left to give. Motivation and gut-busting fitness were his schtick, but seemed to be wearing thin by time he was sacked. Money is always a factor, but Dowie was given some to spend, was not forced to sell his best players, and had the likes of Dann, Fox, Tabb, and Best in his side. And given the fact that City stayed up and that Dowie has hardly distinguished himself since leaving CCFC, it can't really be considered a big mistake to have released him when they did.

Colonel Mustard said:

Dowie was sacked at the right time. From mid November to late February City lost 10 out of 15, took 11 points from 45, and had a goal difference of -12 for the period. Extrapolate those results over the course of a season and you're looking at 33 points - easily last in the table. The team was in freefall. Relegation was a real threat with that long-term form, 19th position, and only a final third of the season to come.

The only question to ask is whether or not Dowie had more left to give. Motivation and gut-busting fitness were his schtick, but seemed to be wearing thin by time he was sacked. Money is always a factor, but Dowie was given some to spend, was not forced to sell his best players, and had the likes of Dann, Fox, Tabb, and Best in his side. And given the fact that City stayed up and that Dowie has hardly distinguished himself since leaving CCFC, it can't really be considered a big mistake to have released him when they did.

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He had Dann and Fox available for about 2 games after signing them before he was sacked(Pretty much straight after a 4-0 defeat of Barnsley at home), and we were in the last 16 of the FA Cup, after beating Blackburn away 4-1 in the third round.

Not forgetting beating Man Utd away 2-0 that season, and several other notable results that season, many of which, horror of horrors, involved us scoring more than 1,2, or even 3 goals.

Hardly fair to judge his reults til late February, when he was sacked after the Preston game on the 9th February?

Of course there was a downtown in results during that period, transfer embargo, ticking clocks, about to go into admin or out of business til Ranson rode in on his white charger with SISU...

Which random 15 games have you picked then to make your theory fit your lack of facts?

Dowie will always be judged on the 2-0 away win against man u reserves and the 4-1 win against Blackburn.

manu reserves maybe - but nani anderson and carrick arnt doind too bad for them at the minute versus doyle osborne and robbie simpson

lordsummerisle said:

He had Dann and Fox available for about 2 games after signing them before he was sacked

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Sure, but the point is that he wasn't an AT-type with zero flexibility. He kept what he wanted, was allowed to strengthen what he had. That's an important consideration given where the club is now.

Not forgetting beating Man Utd away 2-0 that season, and several other notable results that season, many of which, horror of horrors, involved us scoring more than 1,2, or even 3 goals.

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Take off the rose-tinted glasses - there were several results where we got hammered by a similar margin: 0-3 home loss to Bristol, 0-3 home loss to Watford, 0-4 home loss to West Brom, 4-0 away loss to Blackpool...

Hardly fair to judge his reults til late February, when he was sacked after the Preston game on the 9th February?

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It is perfectly fair in assessing why he was sacked.

Of course there was a downtown in results during that period, transfer embargo, ticking clocks, about to go into admin or out of business

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All of which are intangibles. It was the same squad with the same manager.

Which random 15 games have you picked then to make your theory fit your lack of facts?

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My 'lack of facts' represent the last 15 league games leading up to his sacking. No cherry-picking - just a straightforward tale of a downward trend.

skybluesam66 said:

manu reserves maybe - but nani anderson and carrick arnt doind too bad for them at the minute versus doyle osborne and robbie simpson

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It was 4 years ago, Anderson and nani were still young and new to English football. Ha we played their full strength first team we'd have been hammered.

Sure, but the point is that he wasn't an AT-type with zero flexibility. He kept what he wanted, was allowed to strengthen what he had. That's an important consideration given where the club is now.

How could he have been allowed to strengthen what he had if sacked before the new players brought in had played barely 2 games?



Take off the rose-tinted glasses - there were several results where we got hammered by a similar margin: 0-3 home loss to Bristol, 0-3 home loss to Watford, 0-4 home loss to West Brom, 4-0 away loss to Blackpool...

A 4-2 away win to West Brom also, plus a couple of 4-1's against Barnsley that I recall. Admittedly there were some of the bad results that you mention, however we carried on having bad results, but without having any decent results to compensate for them.



It is perfectly fair in assessing why he was sacked.

Your extrapolation of 15 games to equal 33 points over the season, a bit daft really when were already on 35 points when he was sacked.

From the first 15 games of the season, had 24 points, which extapoloated over the season at 1.6 points per game, would have given us 74 points and a place in the play-offs.

Unrealistic, but no more so than your reasoning.

Over the seaon to date, a course of 30 games it actually worked out to about 1.16 pts per game.

Even with the new manager syndrome(and full use of Dann and Fox), Coleman managed 1.13 pts per game for the last 15 games. Hardly the "great leap forward".







All of which are intangibles. It was the same squad with the same manager.

It wasn't though, Adebola was sold in early January, believe Kyle also paid off at that time, and Dann and Fox as mentioned earlier brought in too soon before his sacking to have any statistical significance.

I believe players weren't getting paid in the run up to the take-over(or rumours to that effect), whilst most players don't give a fuck how the club is run, they do care about their pockets, an intangible with a tangible effect.

lordsummerisle said:

How could he have been allowed to strengthen what he had if sacked before the new players brought in had played barely 2 games?

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Dowie was handed the job in February '07. He was given the transfer funds and salary flexibility to bring in Dimi, De Zeeuw, Cairo, Simmonds, Best, Hughes, Borrowdale, Simpson, and Gray. This was in addition to a squad including Mifsud, Ward, Stephen Hughes, Tabb, Kyle, Adebola etc. Dann & Fox came in too late to be significant contributors, but to focus on them is to utterly miss the larger point - Dowie had the wages and transfer fees to throw around. Players were not sold from under him, and he was allowed to add to what was already there. Compared to what AT has to deal with now, Dowie was living in the good times.

Your extrapolation of 15 games to equal 33 points over the season, a bit daft really when were already on 35 points when he was sacked.

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It was only daft if you took it literally. It merely illustrates that CCFC were putting together bottom-of-the-table results over a significant, continuous period of time (a third of the season). That alone ought to be a compelling reason for anybody quizzing why Dowie was sacked.

From the first 15 games of the season, had 24 points, which extapoloated over the season at 1.6 points per game, would have given us 74 points and a place in the play-offs. Unrealistic, but no more so than your reasoning.

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Irrelevant. My reasoning is simply that Dowie had an extended losing run which is why he got sacked. All you are doing is pulling out random statistics with no context or meaning whatsoever. If Thorn loses the next 10 games in a row, should we be focusing on that or a single game we won under his stewardship a couple of months earlier?

Over the seaon to date, a course of 30 games it actually worked out to about 1.16 pts per game.

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Irrelevant, because this isn't about the season as a whole. The team was not bobbing up and down with some semblance of consistency; it was a good start and a dreadful second-third of the season. To have stuck with Dowie would have been to presume that the line would start ascending again, but after three months of descent there was no reason to believe that would be the case.

Even with the new manager syndrome(and full use of Dann and Fox), Coleman managed 1.13 pts per game for the last 15 games. Hardly the "great leap forward".

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Irrelevant. Coleman is another topic altogether. It can be easily argued that the decision to hire Coleman was wrong. That's not the same as asking whether it was the right decision to sack Dowie.

It wasn't though, Adebola was sold in early January, believe Kyle also paid off at that time, and Dann and Fox as mentioned earlier brought in too soon before his sacking to have any statistical significance.

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Adebola and Kyle left on the 31st and 30th January, respectively. Fox and Dann were brought in on the 28th January and 1st February, respectively. Both pairings are as significant/insignificant as the other. Either way, I think it would be an enormous stretch to suggest that Dowie was particularly hamstrung by the comings and goings.

I believe players weren't getting paid in the run up to the take-over(or rumours to that effect), whilst most players don't give a fuck how the club is run, they do care about their pockets, an intangible with a tangible effect.

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No, they remain intangibles. You can't ask for facts and then provide intangibles yourself. I could say that Dowie's inability to sufficiently motivate players during a boardroom crisis was a failure of management...but I wouldn't because that is getting into the area of intangibles.

Good irrefutable stats on the manager's analysis - BUT as well as being a graveyard for managers with reasonable track records don't forget it's an even bigger graveyard for proven goalscorers.

Forwards scoring for fun in whatever league suddenly suffer the CCFC experience after joining our club:

1) The goals mysteriously and significantly dry up

2) Very often the forward is banished to the wings as wide mids which contribute to 1) above

We just don't like/are incapable/coached out of scoring goals - our second leading goalscorer has just 1 goal, absolutely pathetic !!!

PUSB

Actually thats a recent phenomonem ~ think back - Hudson, Gould, Stein, Wallace, Ferguson, Dublin, Huckerby all scored plenty, but since we lost Keane we haven't been able to find a striker who knows where the net is consistently.

Adebole - still palying in the Prem looked the part, and some days was unstoppable, but who have we had recently that you felt was likely to score ? Can't think of anyone.

Jimmy Hill's Chin said:

. We appear to have a reverse Midas touch when it comes to managers. I think it stems from a poverty of ambition and a culture of mediocrity which sadly afflicts the city of Coventry as well as the football club.

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Totally nailed it

Disorganised1 said:

Actually thats a recent phenomonem ~ think back - Hudson, Gould, Stein, Wallace, Ferguson, Dublin, Huckerby all scored plenty, but since we lost Keane we haven't been able to find a striker who knows where the net is consistently.

Adebole - still palying in the Prem looked the part, and some days was unstoppable, but who have we had recently that you felt was likely to score ? Can't think of anyone.

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Mifsud got 17 in a season for us