Richard Keys tweet....! (4 Viewers)

thorninmyside · Apr 23, 2012

Sisu haven't invested a single penny. .. they simply offer our club as a. Business investment to their investors. .. their investors are the actual owners of the club with sisu acting as inbetween. Sisu do not risk any of their own means.

They then employ mouthpieces such as Ken diulieu brody and now fisher to confuse and mitigate to the fans whilst the real owners say nothing.

This is why fans keep complaining about sisu secrecy. .. it isn't secrecy it is business. .. the investors are paying for anonymity.

The worst thing is we knew when they took over. ..you can't cry once you make a pact with the devil.

Imagine what keys will twatter about when his best buds finally get their hands on the club. .. if they do. .. I think we can already guess who our next Ken dielieu is going to be

Otis · Apr 23, 2012

Keys can twitter all day long as far as I am concerned.

If I don't want to listen what he has to say I will ignore his tweets or switch off the radio.

It's not compulsory to hear what he's got to say you know!

Moff · Apr 23, 2012

I dont undertsand some of the vitriol Keys gets.

Ok some tweets may be a little off the mark, but he speaks out putting his repuation on the line, leaving himself open for litigation from SISU, and keeps the plight of the club in the press, and in the news.

I think that is admirable, and he uses his position in the media to publicise the plight of the club, and to lay bad press at the door of SISU to good effect, and in my opinion that can only be welcomed.

For those that dont like his tweets or disagree, why dont you just not read them?

Astute · Apr 23, 2012

I think there is a little truth in what he is saying. Not as far as liquidation though. Sounds like he is trying to force their hand in the matter.

Why would Hoffman talk to him in a friendly manner if he was p!ss!ng him off? I would expect something to happen very soon as they will need to pay players wages and rent until the next season starts. Non payment of rent says to me they are not planning to be here much longer. Would it be worth holding onto us for a couple more months whilst trying to sell more players to get a bit more cash back? Most teams do not buy players for the next season until a few weeks before the next season as they would have to pay their wages before the season starts.

dadgad · Apr 23, 2012

Yes, we should be grateful for the bit of publicity that he generates as long as he isn't jeapordising anything. And that's the problem: We simply do not know.
Sisu are not doing anything!
Sisu are not saying anything.! Just spin.
They are a toxic, vile bunch and a blight on the city.
Everything must be done to get rid of them.

Chipfat · Apr 23, 2012

I don't see any reason why Keys should say anything unless it has some fact,, Why would he, doesnt need publicity, doesnt need abusing and certainly doesnt need the sack from another media outlet for stating untrue facts on national radio... Its up to the indidvidual to believe or not,, but until someone give me a fair reason without abuse of Keys then ill take what is being said as someone who knows more about the inner dealings than most on here.....

Otis · Apr 23, 2012

dadgad said:
Yes, we should be grateful for the bit of publicity that he generates as long as he isn't jeapordising anything. And that's the problem: We simply do not know.
Sisu are not doing anything!
Sisu are not saying anything.! Just spin.
They are a toxic, vile bunch and a blight on the city.
Everything must be done to get rid of them.

Yeah, I thought fans on here want our plight publicised as much as possible and for everyone to know that we want Sisu out and they are the bad guys? Isn't Keys at least doing that?

I don't assume there is any credence in what Richard Keys is saying. It may be inside information it may be just gossip, but at least he is saying something. Would rather that than interminable silence!

dongonzalos · Apr 23, 2012

Otis said:
At least he is trying to force the owner's hand into coming out and saying something or clarify the position.

Shouldn't we be glad that we have a high profile City fan who can air our views and concerns to the nation?

Yes so is Bobby Gould and Micky Quinn. We need people to force SISU to tell the truth. Now we need the Coventry Evening Telegraph to do the same

Tad · Apr 23, 2012

He shouldn't be saying anything unless SISU openly come out with a statement. He can talk about the club all day long for I care, like others have said, it's up to us if we want to listen. He's cutting to close to the bone now. SISU have every right to go after him for publicly saying such things - epically if there false.

thorninmyside · Apr 23, 2012

Astute said:
I think there is a little truth in what he is saying. Not as far as liquidation though. Sounds like he is trying to force their hand in the matter.

Why would Hoffman talk to him in a friendly manner if he was p!ss!ng him off? I would expect something to happen very soon as they will need to pay players wages and rent until the next season starts. Non payment of rent says to me they are not planning to be here much longer. Would it be worth holding onto us for a couple more months whilst trying to sell more players to get a bit more cash back? Most teams do not buy players for the next season until a few weeks before the next season as they would have to pay their wages before the season starts.

Problem is the club are tied into a 40year contract to rent. The club are tenants. Sisu can walk away and the club will owe what is left from the 40 year period.

To top that off the man from acl was saying saturday how they are joined at the hip Ethan ccfc staff in the office and have to work together.

Sisu admitted saturday they can not "afford to pay" the rent. ......how do some poeole misunderstand this. Administration is ..1 maybe 2 weeks off. .. it has to be

dongonzalos · Apr 23, 2012

Tad said:
He shouldn't be saying anything unless SISU openly come out with a statement. He can talk about the club all day long for I care, like others have said, it's up to us if we want to listen. He's cutting to close to the bone now. SISU have every right to go after him for publicly saying such things - epically if there false.

Thats the point

1) The Investor of SISU are hidden, we dont know what their plan is and we did not know last year
2) If Keys was wrong they could go for him and they have not

Grendel · Apr 23, 2012

stupot07 said:
OSB - you understand finance, wouldn't administration come before liquidation? Also people are saying that we have £3-4m assets left, but you don't get full upfront payments for players, and isn't the training ground mortgaged?

It would be extremely unusual for an organisation to go into liquidation prior to declaring voluntary administration. OSB may shed some light on it but I cannot see any benefit to the organisation doing it. If a club enters administration then the club is run by accountants who will decide if there are any bids who would then the best buyer of the club. It may be the could avoid the football creditors rule by doing this but there is no suggestion anywhere that currently players are not being paid is there?

What this also questions is the nature of the bid by Hoffman and if it has changed since relegation what has changed and when. This infers that a cash offer is on the table. It would have to still be a very paltry sum if the SISU owners prefered to take a drastic course such as this. Equally if the investors are serious they would want to buy before administration as they may not be the preferred bidder. Even SISU said they would not buy the club if it went into administration. Also even if they sold players they would get a fraction of the fee up front so that comment confuses as well.

Otis · Apr 23, 2012

Could understand people getting a bit aggreived when he was giving dates when a possible takeover would happen, but this is surely different.

He's just trying to highlight the plight of this club. I'm happy for him to keep doing that. Doesn't mean I have to believe anything he says though.

thorninmyside · Apr 23, 2012

If you can't afford to pay the rent your not on a position where you can own and run a football club.

These investors are multiple millionaires.

This isn't a case of 'can't pay'... its 'won't pay'

I don't blame them ... acl and coventry council are to blame for this as well for not allowing the ricoh to be sold to us.

Otis · Apr 23, 2012

thorninmyside said:
If you can't afford to pay the rent your not on a position where you can own and run a football club.

These investors are multiple millionaires.

This isn't a case of 'can't pay'... its 'won't pay'

I don't blame them ... acl and coventry council are to blame for this as well for not allowing the ricoh to be sold to us.

They will allow the Ricoh to be sold to us, they just don't want to sell to Sisu.

Grendel · Apr 23, 2012

Otis said:
Could understand people getting a bit aggreived when he was giving dates when a possible takeover would happen, but this is surely different.

He's just trying to highlight the plight of this club. I'm happy for him to keep doing that. Doesn't mean I have to believe anything he says though.

What also I fail to get is if things are that bad and the talks therefore are clearly not moving forward then Hoffman and his consortium would surely raise some public awareness in terms of what their vision for the club is and what the long term strategy would be. This would put real pressure on SISU to also declare their true intent. People keep saying talks take time and publicity will damage things. I really do not see it. Most buy-outs of PLC's are very public and some are very ugly. The whole thing is very, very odd.

Grendel · Apr 23, 2012

thorninmyside said:
If you can't afford to pay the rent your not on a position where you can own and run a football club.

These investors are multiple millionaires.

This isn't a case of 'can't pay'... its 'won't pay'

I don't blame them ... acl and coventry council are to blame for this as well for not allowing the ricoh to be sold to us.

If you are implying the potential investors are multi millionaires and the sum in question is £3 - £4 million then they would buy at that level as administration leaves them exposed and up for scrutiny.

Otis · Apr 23, 2012

kduffy said:
What also I fail to get is if things are that bad and the talks therefore are clearly not moving forward then Hoffman and his consortium would surely raise some public awareness in terms of what their vision for the club is and what the long term strategy would be. This would put real pressure on SISU to also declare their true intent. People keep saying talks take time and publicity will damage things. I really do not see it. Most buy-outs of PLC's are very public and some are very ugly. The whole thing is very, very odd.

There's definitely something amiss.

I wonder if they agreed they were going to talk until the cows come home but Sisu have sold all the cows?

Tad · Apr 23, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Thats the point

1) The Investor of SISU are hidden, we dont know what their plan is and we did not know last year
2) If Keys was wrong they could go for him and they have not

I agree that they should of openly come out with a plan and a better structure to talk to fans. But they have come out and said a major review WILL be taken place following our drop down to L1. This, like it would with any club/company, will take time. The season is now over and they have plenty of time think and make changes where they see fit. They've admitted mistakes have been made and they are aiming not repeat these mistakes.

As for your second point, it's up to them if they wish to go after him. As some City fans clearly like him, it might not be worth the hassle and the backlash of chasing him.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 23, 2012

stupot07 said:
OSB - you understand finance, wouldn't administration come before liquidation? Also people are saying that we have £3-4m assets left, but you don't get full upfront payments for players, and isn't the training ground mortgaged?

usually yes but it doesn't have to stupot. A creditor could file to wind up and SISU/directors not fight it and we go out of business

The assets of the football club have a charge over them yes ......... in favour of Sky Blue Sports & Leisure which is owned by the SISU investors. Last time I looked this was the only outstanding charge or mortgage. Basically they could wind up CCFC and SBS&L could take any assets in CCFC

The assets would be the players, training ground, the name or goodwill, any equipment, any debtors or money in the bank

Godiva · Apr 23, 2012

kduffy said:
It would be extremely unusual for an organisation to go into liquidation prior to declaring voluntary administration. OSB may shed some light on it but I cannot see any benefit to the organisation doing it. If a club enters administration then the club is run by accountants who will decide if there are any bids who would then the best buyer of the club. It may be the could avoid the football creditors rule by doing this but there is no suggestion anywhere that currently players are not being paid is there?

What this also questions is the nature of the bid by Hoffman and if it has changed since relegation what has changed and when. This infers that a cash offer is on the table. It would have to still be a very paltry sum if the SISU owners prefered to take a drastic course such as this. Equally if the investors are serious they would want to buy before administration as they may not be the preferred bidder. Even SISU said they would not buy the club if it went into administration. Also even if they sold players they would get a fraction of the fee up front so that comment confuses as well.

Well, there may actually be reasons why sisu would bypass administration and go straight to liquidation ... I am NOT saying that they will, only there could be reasons to do it.

It would only happen though if the club has run out of money and sisu's funds have no surplus (or desire) to invest further in the club. In addition there should be no interest from other investors to either invest jointly with sisu's funds or take over the whole business. The last condition is more of a psychological nature - sisu should feel corner'ed and meet only closed doors whereever they turn, be it the council, the stadium, the supporters ...

If all three (there may be more) conditions are met, then it would be a choice of administration or liquidation.

As sisu's funds are the main creditors they will receive the majority of any money salvaged through admin or liquidation.
Now, here's the catch - in administration outside lawyers/auditors are appointed and they will take total control. AND they will charge a hefty fee for their 'service'.
In liquidation mode, sisu stays in total control and they save the fees to outside lawyers/auditors.

Sisu have before had some (in their view) bad experience with administrators .... http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/12940-Uncovered-Something-on-SISU...

Otis · Apr 23, 2012

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Sisu only agree to fund us until the end of the season?

oldskyblue58 · Apr 23, 2012

Administration is a period where the insolvency experts run a business for a period of time. During that time administrators must ensure the business doesnt lose further money, restructure the business, sell it or decide it cannot be saved and liquidate.

SISU investors being the biggest creditor would control who got appointed to ensure they got best deal. But whats the point when they already control the process without the cost of administrators ?

Too many people think administration will cure our ills, there is no guarantee of a suitable buyer (it isnt just about price its about it being viable going forward too, and the level of funds available from new owners etc) - administrators might take the view looking at it that the only course of action is to liquidate.

Godiva · Apr 23, 2012

Otis said:
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Sisu only agree to fund us until the end of the season?

They said they had secured funding till the end of this season ... that's not the same as saying they won't secure funding for the coming seasons.

Go_For_It_City · Apr 23, 2012

If and that is if this is correct, clearly shows that the SISU would be able to generate more funds than if they sold the business as a going concer (i.e. to Gary Hoffman).
But on the basis that the training ground is the only real tangible asset, have they mortgaged this? And if yes, would not the provider of the mortgage have priority over sisu to any funds raised over the sale?

oldskyblue58 · Apr 23, 2012

2010 accounts states it is the intention of the majority shareholders to provide or source financial support as it is expected to be required

everyone goes on about a guarantee but that is not what has been said. SISU guaranteed nothing they stated an intention in a letter to the Board. We were always going to be reliant on cost savings and player sales.

dongonzalos · Apr 23, 2012

kduffy said:
What also I fail to get is if things are that bad and the talks therefore are clearly not moving forward then Hoffman and his consortium would surely raise some public awareness in terms of what their vision for the club is and what the long term strategy would be. This would put real pressure on SISU to also declare their true intent. People keep saying talks take time and publicity will damage things. I really do not see it. Most buy-outs of PLC's are very public and some are very ugly. The whole thing is very, very odd.

I think that they did thus before, clearly explaining their plans and where the money would be invested. I think when they did that SISU came out and attacked them, saying that they would not do business with them if they are going to talk in public. I also think a lot of people on the forums said if the hoff was serious he would not be talking about in the media he would just do it.

It seems clear now the offer is there. SISU want more. The hoff is not prepared to offer more. There is no other offer. SISU are either choosing a route to put in administration/liquidation. Or they are threatening to in order to get the hoff to stump up more cash. I don't think the hoff will so it is a case which route will benefit sisu more. I would prefer the bid to be accepted. At the moment IMO sisu are going to try a charm offence to ensure they are here for the summer. They will get the ban lifted sell whoever they can for any amount. Then either accept the offer if it is still there or fold the club.

We desperately need them gone before the summer I just dont know how to do it.

thorninmyside · Apr 23, 2012

Hedge funds don't find their investors in your local ladbrokes. These guys are serious players.

Lets say 15 to 20 investors came in to buy city. With an initial investment of 100,000 each. That's small fry to these people.

Well their incentive is not the club its the property. The ricoh. Nothing wrong with that at all.
The ricoh is the key to the deal. We we can all remember the council and acl stating they would sell to the new owners.

So the 20 investors continue to foot the bill for the debts interest payments. The players wages and new players. As well as extortionately high rent. .

Well on that basis its not a great investment is it.

So the investors. Who are very smart poeole say no thanks. .. no more. . We are getting nothing for our money. . So we sell our best players. After all the investors are our priority agree or not.

Then the next thing the investors hear is the owners of the ricoh are backtracking and say they will not sell to sisu full stop.

Incentive to invest completely out of the window. .. hence the reason for removal of high paid executives. Players. Non payment of rent. And a f--k you attitude from sisu and the investors. Personally I don't blame them.

When thorn stated "poeole going in directions" he meant sisu. The council and acl.

I can tell you this complete and utter mess is down to coventry city council. If they hadn't crapped all over sisu investors I'm convinced we would have continued buying players in the realms of king. Kept the likes of turner and co. .. added in the summer .. but instead sisu were forced into a corner by the council and acl.

thorninmyside · Apr 23, 2012

Honestly the investors in hedge funds wealth make the dragons in the den look your local chip shop owners. Throwing a million into the pot is simply a bet they hope to make a reasonable profit.

The question fans should be asking is why didn't the investors invest. .. what is their issue with the club. ... as if we need it spelling out.

dongonzalos · Apr 23, 2012

thorninmyside said:
Hedge funds don't find their investors in your local ladbrokes. These guys are serious players.

Lets say 15 to 20 investors came in to buy city. With an initial investment of 100,000 each. That's small fry to these people.

Well their incentive is not the club its the property. The ricoh. Nothing wrong with that at all.
The ricoh is the key to the deal. We we can all remember the council and acl stating they would sell to the new owners.

So the 20 investors continue to foot the bill for the debts interest payments. The players wages and new players. As well as extortionately high rent. .

Well on that basis its not a great investment is it.

So the investors. Who are very smart poeole say no thanks. .. no more. . We are getting nothing for our money. . So we sell our best players. After all the investors are our priority agree or not.

Then the next thing the investors hear is the owners of the ricoh are backtracking and say they will not sell to sisu full stop.

Incentive to invest completely out of the window. .. hence the reason for removal of high paid executives. Players. Non payment of rent. And a f--k you attitude from sisu and the investors. Personally I don't blame them.

When thorn stated "poeole going in directions" he meant sisu. The council and acl.

I can tell you this complete and utter mess is down to coventry city council. If they hadn't crapped all over sisu investors I'm convinced we would have continued buying players in the realms of king. Kept the likes of turner and co. .. added in the summer .. but instead sisu were forced into a corner by the council and acl.

Totally 100% agree with you till the very last paragraph.

SISU's investors should come out say who they are, say they are investing in CCFC as they are after the RICOH. Like you say none of us would blame them.

Coventry City Council are asking who are you and why should we sell the Ricoh to you, what are your plans for it? It is a massive Coventry owned bit of structure and resource.

If they sold it to SISU without knowing who the investors are and something went horribly wrong. We would all be going mental at the council saying how incompetent they are for selling when they did not know who they are selling to and what their intentions are.

SISU are to blame the council are rightly asking for certain transparency and it is not forthcoming. SISU need to know what the council want and supply it. SISU are not doing that and we need to know why?

thorninmyside · Apr 23, 2012

And now it is official coventry council leader states sisu are threatening to liquidise the club

oldskyblue58 · Apr 23, 2012

thorninmyside said:
And now it is official coventry council leader states sisu are threatening to liquidise the club

ewwww very messy :laugh:

TheParsonsHose · Apr 23, 2012

Godiva said:
They said they had secured funding till the end of this season ... that's not the same as saying they won't secure funding for the coming seasons.

I think's what he means.....

dongonzalos · Apr 23, 2012

Finally the truth is coming out. SISU are trying to threaten both the Hoff and the council. They are trying to squeeze more money out of Hoff or force the council to reduce the rent. They are showing their true colours by lying to the fans at the same time. I dont mind them making the threats but dont lie to us.

Also I am glad that Richard Keys has been shown to be telling the truth

dongonzalos · Apr 23, 2012

Keys just reiterated on the radio. "It is out there now SISU want to liquidate the club. The offer was made by Gary in August. Negotiations started again in January. It has not come to fruition, Gary still wants to buy the club. SISU wants it liquidated they think they is the only way they can raise any funds"

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