Ricoh verses Owning a new stadium Finances (1 Viewer)

dongonzalos · Jan 9, 2014

Can anyone who believes that we will build a new stadium, please explain to me how this will result in SISU recouping their investment?

I am thinking the likes of Godiva, Paxman RFC.
(Not having a go but you will have given this some thought and concluded it to be realistic)

I understand they have a chance by agreeing a long term cheap rent deal with 80% F&B

If they can get the club running at near break even and get in the championship. The club has financial stability and could be tempting to someone with premiership ambitions and they may get their 30-40 million back or a large chunk of it.

I understand if they bought out ACL.
( if it is correct ACL make a profit without the club)

They reunite ACL and the club they increase the profit ACL make. They again get promotion and sell the premiership dream.

What I fail to understand is if they borrow 30-40 million on top of the 30-40 they have already invested.

Will they be able to sell the club and its own stadium for 80 million?

I just can't see someone paying 80 million for a championship side with a 12k capacity stadium.

As well as been the least likely way to get a return it is also the longest out of of the three possible options.

No future with SISU · Jan 10, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Can anyone who believes that we will build a new stadium, please explain to me how this will result in SISU recouping their investment?

I am thinking the likes of Godiva, Paxman RFC.
(Not having a go but you will have given this some thought and concluded it to be realistic)

I understand they have a chance by agreeing a long term cheap rent deal with 80% F&B

If they can get the club running at near break even and get in the championship. The club has financial stability and could be tempting to someone with premiership ambitions and they may get their 30-40 million back or a large chunk of it.

I understand if they bought out ACL.
( if it is correct ACL make a profit without the club)

They reunite ACL and the club they increase the profit ACL make. They again get promotion and sell the premiership dream.

What I fail to understand is if they borrow 30-40 million on top of the 30-40 they have already invested.

Will they be able to sell the club and its own stadium for 80 million?

I just can't see someone paying 80 million for a championship side with a 12k capacity stadium.

As well as been the least likely way to get a return it is also the longest out of of the three possible options.

£30m will cost £1.8m min interest a year

Como · Jan 10, 2014

Nobody really knows how much they have 'invested'.

It also begs the question how many buyers are out there, at any price.

You can value the physical assets, and take a guess at the players. I would not think it would come to much.

Good will?

The value is in the name and the golden share, I find it very difficult to imagine that is in the tens of millions.

Add a Stadium and does that improve the situation, it seems to me all similar stadiums are worth less than it cost to build them.

I did read somewhere that one third of the owners of Clubs would be open to a reasonable offer. There does not seem to be a long line of willing buyers.

That is what has me scratching my head.

Ccfc1979 · Jan 10, 2014

If they believed Haskell was buying the Ricoh in order to drive SISU out as that is all they want, maybe the fictitious ground is a rebuff to keep the price of the 'club' up for anyone wanting to buy it. As in, you may have the Ricoh but doesn't mean we'll just go on the cheap...we have our own ground being built you know so it will take a large offer for YOU to reunite the ground and club if we can't to sell on at a higher value,

M&B Stand · Jan 10, 2014

Como said:
Nobody really knows how much they have 'invested'.

It also begs the question how many buyers are out there, at any price.

You can value the physical assets, and take a guess at the players. I would not think it would come to much.

Good will?

The value is in the name and the golden share, I find it very difficult to imagine that is in the tens of millions.

Add a Stadium and does that improve the situation, it seems to me all similar stadiums are worth less than it cost to build them.

I did read somewhere that one third of the owners of Clubs would be open to a reasonable offer. There does not seem to be a long line of willing buyers.

That is what has me scratching my head.

They're not gonna build a new stadium are they.
Why don't people put pressure on the contract holder to sell the f&b catering contract to the club.

dongonzalos · Jan 10, 2014

M&B Stand said:
They're not gonna build a new stadium are they.
Why don't people put pressure on the contract holder to sell the f&b catering contract to the club.

I think people don't think the remaining 20% of F &B is relevant. That it is a smoke screen to justify not agreeing a rent deal. Keep the club away and to try and get the Ricoh for less than 10 million.

Rusty Trombone · Jan 10, 2014

M&B Stand said:
They're not gonna build a new stadium are they.
Why don't people put pressure on the contract holder to sell the f&b catering contract to the club.

Does the club want to buy it? I haven't read anywhere about any offers being refused.

M&B Stand · Jan 10, 2014

No idea if they've asked. But just saying if all club generated revenues were available to us, what excuse would they have?
*
*Apart from rent/service charges

Rusty Trombone · Jan 10, 2014

M&B Stand said:
No idea if they've asked. But just saying if all club generated revenues were available to us, what excuse would they have?
*
*Apart from rent/service charges

I think the next excuse is something about the players can't see each other in front of the blue seats.

sky blue john · Jan 10, 2014

Then it will be the fans wearing the same tops.....
Oh sorry i forget Sisu managed to help with that one by getting rid of the fans.

The lost fan · Jan 10, 2014

Personaly I dont think Sisu have put money in ! Yes they have spent money and loaded that debt onto the club and others ! There just looking to make a nice tidy lump sum from somewhere

oldskyblue58 · Jan 10, 2014

well according to what was reportedly said then the new stadium would be financed by a mix of debt and equity, the debt or loans being based on future income streams. Equity was supposed to come from other partners investing in the site and the owners gaining a premium on that to invest in the stadium build - except last night (as I understand it) it was said that there would only be football related income streams on the site and the additional income streams would be from the fan zone. Please correct me if I have misunderstood. That seems to me to be a change in finance plan originally put forward and likely means a high proportion of debt in the build cost finance.

mortgaging future income steams makes me uneasy ...... I believe this has been suggested as how finance will be achieved

Now that debt could come from additional funds from investors which could be interest free but would you want to invest in a very highly geared project for no return ? .... or it could be interest bearing finance from the likes of finance institutions which could include ARVO ...... or a mix of both

Just to illustrate £25m over 20 years at 3% APR would mean repayments of £139k per month or £1.668m per year

Is that a manageable level of debt without being promoted quickly to the top division? Bear in mind that is on top of debt already in place that pays interest to ARVO at around £1m per annum. Would the stadium suggested actually maximise the windfall of being in the Premiership? If we "only" get promoted to the Championship then the finance costs wont change but income levels will compared to the top division. If we bump along in League 1 say like Charlton did for 5 or 6 years how does the finances stack up then?

I think we need a lot of clear factual explanation before we can be convinced of the finances on this. Could it be done possibly but the trade off is the fans expectations of the new ground and quality on the field I think. We simply are not viable to anyone if we do not get debt levels down long term - nothing I have seen so far suggests a reduction in debt any time soon

The Gentleman · Jan 10, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
well according to what was reportedly said then the new stadium would be financed by a mix of debt and equity, the debt or loans being based on future income streams. Equity was supposed to come from other partners investing in the site and the owners gaining a premium on that to invest in the stadium build - except last night (as I understand it) it was said that there would only be football related income streams on the site and the additional income streams would be from the fan zone. Please correct me if I have misunderstood. That seems to me to be a change in finance plan originally put forward and likely means a high proportion of debt in the build cost finance.

mortgaging future income steams makes me uneasy ...... I believe this has been suggested as how finance will be achieved

Now that debt could come from additional funds from investors which could be interest free but would you want to invest in a very highly geared project for no return ? .... or it could be interest bearing finance from the likes of finance institutions which could include ARVO ...... or a mix of both

Just to illustrate £25m over 20 years at 3% APR would mean repayments of £139k per month or £1.668m per year

Is that a manageable level of debt without being promoted quickly to the top division? Bear in mind that is on top of debt already in place that pays interest to ARVO at around £1m per annum. Would the stadium suggested actually maximise the windfall of being in the Premiership? If we "only" get promoted to the Championship then the finance costs wont change but income levels will compared to the top division. If we bump along in League 1 say like Charlton did for 5 or 6 years how does the finances stack up then?

I think we need a lot of clear factual explanation before we can be convinced of the finances on this. Could it be done possibly but the trade off is the fans expectations of the new ground and quality on the field I think. We simply are not viable to anyone if we do not get debt levels down long term - nothing I have seen so far suggests a reduction in debt any time soon

Have you got enough money to buy a football club ? because from what I have read from your posts, you are the only one who really explains it in a way that makes it easy to understand. Would love to see you in a 1 to 1 with Fisher, now that I would buy a ticket for !

letsallsingtogether · Jan 10, 2014

Too true but they expect to make millions a year from so called non football events in a stadium that holds only 12,000? plus where is he academy that is supposed to be based there? and which at the moment is our bread and butter as with out it we would actually not even manage to get a team out?

CCFC cannot repay any of this if they loose their fans which is what they seem to be doing at an alarming rate.

oldskyblue58 said:
well according to what was reportedly said then the new stadium would be financed by a mix of debt and equity, the debt or loans being based on future income streams. Equity was supposed to come from other partners investing in the site and the owners gaining a premium on that to invest in the stadium build - except last night (as I understand it) it was said that there would only be football related income streams on the site and the additional income streams would be from the fan zone. Please correct me if I have misunderstood. That seems to me to be a change in finance plan originally put forward and likely means a high proportion of debt in the build cost finance.

mortgaging future income steams makes me uneasy ...... I believe this has been suggested as how finance will be achieved

Now that debt could come from additional funds from investors which could be interest free but would you want to invest in a very highly geared project for no return ? .... or it could be interest bearing finance from the likes of finance institutions which could include ARVO ...... or a mix of both

Just to illustrate £25m over 20 years at 3% APR would mean repayments of £139k per month or £1.668m per year

Is that a manageable level of debt without being promoted quickly to the top division? Bear in mind that is on top of debt already in place that pays interest to ARVO at around £1m per annum. Would the stadium suggested actually maximise the windfall of being in the Premiership? If we "only" get promoted to the Championship then the finance costs wont change but income levels will compared to the top division. If we bump along in League 1 say like Charlton did for 5 or 6 years how does the finances stack up then?

I think we need a lot of clear factual explanation before we can be convinced of the finances on this. Could it be done possibly but the trade off is the fans expectations of the new ground and quality on the field I think. We simply are not viable to anyone if we do not get debt levels down long term - nothing I have seen so far suggests a reduction in debt any time soon

letsallsingtogether · Jan 10, 2014

Tried the one to one with fisher at the Forums fisher wouldn't have any of it. Clive and co just kept on bypassing him...

The Gentleman said:
Have you got enough money to buy a football club ? because from what I have read from your posts, you are the only one who really explains it in a way that makes it easy to understand. Would love to see you in a 1 to 1 with Fisher, now that I would buy a ticket for !

tisza · Jan 10, 2014

OSB what is the current situation re: the ARVO charge? Would it apply to a new stadium? If so surely that would make it more difficult to borrow funds for a new stadium?

oldskyblue58 · Jan 10, 2014

as the stadium is likely to be with in a separate new property company then I don't think it is subject to any current charge as such, although ARVO has a charge over Otium and SBS&L. I would think however any finance house would require a charge over the property (be it ARVO or anyone else) for any funds provided

RoboCCFC90 · Jan 10, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Can anyone who believes that we will build a new stadium, please explain to me how this will result in SISU recouping their investment?

I am thinking the likes of Godiva, Paxman RFC.
(Not having a go but you will have given this some thought and concluded it to be realistic)

I understand they have a chance by agreeing a long term cheap rent deal with 80% F&B

If they can get the club running at near break even and get in the championship. The club has financial stability and could be tempting to someone with premiership ambitions and they may get their 30-40 million back or a large chunk of it.

I understand if they bought out ACL.
( if it is correct ACL make a profit without the club)

They reunite ACL and the club they increase the profit ACL make. They again get promotion and sell the premiership dream.

What I fail to understand is if they borrow 30-40 million on top of the 30-40 they have already invested.

Will they be able to sell the club and its own stadium for 80 million?

I just can't see someone paying 80 million for a championship side with a 12k capacity stadium.

As well as been the least likely way to get a return it is also the longest out of of the three possible options.

I assume you mean as opposed to the Ricoh Arena? The issue everyone has is do we know if the Ricoh is for sale? Whether you discuss a Rental Agreement or not, it's really irrelevant as Sisu don't want it to rent, they want to buy it.

If the Ricoh is for sale then you can weigh it up against the alternative of building a new stadium, but no one really knows whether the Ricoh is for sale, there need's to be more clarity not "I am trying to get the best deal for the people of Coventry" because everyone has a differing view of what that deal might be.

italiahorse · Jan 10, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
I assume you mean as opposed to the Ricoh Arena? The issue everyone has is do we know if the Ricoh is for sale? Whether you discuss a Rental Agreement or not, it's really irrelevant as Sisu don't want it to rent, they want to buy it.

If the Ricoh is for sale then you can weigh it up against the alternative of building a new stadium, but no one really knows whether the Ricoh is for sale, there need's to be more clarity not "I am trying to get the best deal for the people of Coventry" because everyone has a differing view of what that deal might be.

It's not for sale as stated by AL. Which is probably the best for the time being.
The best Sisu can hope for is a long lease. Which by chance is also the cheapest option for them.

dongonzalos · Jan 10, 2014

It just amazes me that some people are so adamant a new stadium will be built .

Yet they are unable to logically explain how SISU will ultimately get their money back or make profit via this avenue.

Or how it is a better option for sisu than the others available?

Como · Jan 10, 2014

M&B Stand said:
They're not gonna build a new stadium are they.
Why don't people put pressure on the contract holder to sell the f&b catering contract to the club.

You can never say never.

20 m plus for the stadium, even a small one, millions more for the land, I had thought of other development potential but that does not seem part of the plan any way. Plus is that SISU's area?

So assuming they have 30m in at the moment and spend another 30m, how much would they get for the club even if we were promoted? Promotion is easier to say than do.

If it is just a Football Stadium how much do you make selling burgers and drinks?

RoboCCFC90 · Jan 10, 2014

italiahorse said:
It's not for sale as stated by AL. Which is probably the best for the time being.
The best Sisu can hope for is a long lease. Which by chance is also the cheapest option for them.

But Sisu have told us they don't want to lease so this thread is pointless.

M&B Stand · Jan 10, 2014

Como said:
You can never say never.

20 m plus for the stadium, even a small one, millions more for the land, I had thought of other development potential but that does not seem part of the plan any way. Plus is that SISU's area?

So assuming they have 30m in at the moment and spend another 30m, how much would they get for the club even if we were promoted? Promotion is easier to say than do.

If it is just a Football Stadium how much do you make selling burgers and drinks?

Not that much in the grand scheme of things, has anyone asked ACL/Compass to relinquish the contract?

señor Santiago · Jan 11, 2014

12,000 Capacity stadium in bedworth will be too big for Coventry city fc. Most coventarians will be following the city of coventry phoenix club at the Ricoh

dongonzalos · Jan 11, 2014

Como said:
You can never say never.

20 m plus for the stadium, even a small one, millions more for the land, I had thought of other development potential but that does not seem part of the plan any way. Plus is that SISU's area?

So assuming they have 30m in at the moment and spend another 30m, how much would they get for the club even if we were promoted? Promotion is easier to say than do.

If it is just a Football Stadium how much do you make selling burgers and drinks?

I think to build the stadium it will cost more like 40 million. They claim to have already put in 30-40 million

So they would need to sell the club and its 12k capacity stadium for 80 million to get their money back.

I think if you are selling the club plus the Ricoh albeit a long term rent deal or ownership of ACL
, you will have a far greater chance if getting your money back

Grendel · Jan 11, 2014

señor Santiago said:
12,000 Capacity stadium in bedworth will be too big for Coventry city fc. Most coventarians will be following the city of coventry phoenix club at the Ricoh

No they won't.

thaiskyblue · Jan 11, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
But Sisu have told us they don't want to lease so this thread is pointless.

alexander armstrong will be suing for copyright.

savosdad · Jan 11, 2014

There will be no ambition at all, what chance have sisu idiots got to recoup anything its a downward spiral put your money on the table buy the ricoh you may then have a serious chance you nob heads. You've got more chance making money buying my fucking shed

italiahorse · Jan 11, 2014

Grendel said:
No they won't.

Your right, there is more to life than football.
Happy Campervaning !!!!

skybluetom · Jan 11, 2014

Sisu are not stupid; (despite having done a number of stupid things), they'll never get all their money back but if they have a well run Championship they may get 50% of their investment back which is better than nowt.

señor Santiago · Jan 11, 2014

if im going to support a team outside my city its not going to be Bedworth dressesd as Coventry fc

Ricoh verses Owning a new stadium Finances (1 Viewer)

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Banned

CCFC Finance Director

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

CCFC Finance Director

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Banned

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency